Australia Samantha Murphy, 51, last seen leaving her property to go for a run in the Canadian State Forest, Ballarat 100km NW of Melbourne, 4 Feb 2024 #6

[louisepiglet]

I notice this keeps coming up.

No, hitting someone by accident and failing to render aid, will not lead to a murder charge anywhere that I know of. That is manslaughter: inadvertently causing death, no matter how carelessly or negligently.

Murder is not defined by statute, but by common law (tradition), so it is essentially the same throughout the English-speaking world, and the legalities were sorted out in courts hundreds of years ago in England.

The key to a murder charge is formally known as, in Latin, 'mens rea' - the guilty mind. Prosecution must prove the person knew what they were going to do was murder, before they did it. The murderer knew it was deeply wrong, but did it anyway, deliberately, with intent to murder. If the victim survived, it was by accident, because they meant to kill them dead.

Another way it has been described is 'with malice aforethought'

No 'whoops, I got distracted, I didn't mean to stab him in the heart', 'oops, the gun went off as I vigourously cleaned it, it just happened to be aimed directly at her head from 2 feet away,' etc.

Murder - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

It's really not that complicated. I don't understand how, before the arrest, everyone was quite happy to speculate that her husband was a murderer, but seem so sqeamish about it with regards to the real suspect.

JMO

I agree with you. The drunk and drugged driver that killed the four children in Oatlands was charged with manslaughter amongst other charges. The charge of murder seems to indicate intent or an actual physical attack.

 

[nightrider17]

Maybe he king hit SM as well? MOO

 

[Choices]

I am more inclined to think he hit her accidentally and then finished her off to try and cover up his actions

This doesn't compute for me. Calling 000 is better all the way around than going to all the trouble of finishing her off, disposing the body and having that on one's conscience let alone to possibly getting caught and the repercussions. I know hit and runs are a thing but to take it that far doesn't seem realistic to me. But maybe a panicked person still under the of fog drugs.. who knows.
(Edit to add: also why I can't wrap my head around it is for it to go from 0 to 100 (no pun intended) - accident to suddenly murder).

 

[cocomonkey]

Murder & Manslaughter Defence Lawyers Victoria | Sher Criminal Lawyers

Our murder & manslaughter defence lawyers are extensively experienced in matters in the Supreme Court of Victoria and work to obtain the best outcome.

www.sherlawyers.com.au

Extract from the above link explaining Murder and Manslaughter charges in Victoria:

"The offending act does not have to be the sole cause of the victim’s death to be considered murder. The Court can still find a defendant guilty of murder if the act significantly contributed to the death. However, the act must have been done voluntarily, meaning that the accused had conscious control of their body movements.

Also, note that the accused can be found guilty if they knew it was probable that serious injury would result from their voluntary acts. This is called reckless murder. An offence is considered “reckless” if the accused intentionally committed an act and knew that it could reasonably cause harm or kill someone, even if they did not intend to harm anyone. In other words, the accused was willing to run the risk of someone else being injured or killed when they committed the act."

 

[louisepiglet]

I see the accused as a weak and conformist type.
Without any initiative in life.

- At 22 still living with parents?
- Following father's footsteps like a shadow?
(football, even the chosen job)

Usually children choose their own path in life, different career and are more ambitious than parents.

It seems to me he was glued to parents (especially father) b/c he benefited from this situation, e.g father's contacts in business.

And then,
there is his wallowing in addictions:
alcohol, drugs in a bender.
How did he finance them?

What does it all say about his character?
His personality?

Nothing good IMO.
I'm amazed any girl could view him as a "man of her life"

JMO

Im not sure what country you are from but a 22 year old still living with their parents is extremely common in Australia. Also, a son taking an apprenticeship in his fathers business is also very common and then taking over when the father retires. Sadly, the alcohol and drugs are very common in that age group and not considered unusual amongst their mates.

 

[Neet_Mc]

I see the accused as a weak and conformist type.
Without any initiative in life.

- At 22 still living with parents?
- Following father's footsteps like a shadow?
(football, even the chosen job)

Usually children choose their own path in life, different career and are more ambitious than parents.

It seems to me he was glued to parents (especially father) b/c he benefited from this situation, e.g father's contacts in business.

And then,
there is his wallowing in addictions:
alcohol, drugs in a bender.
How did he finance them?

What does it all say about his character?
His personality?

Nothing good IMO.
I'm amazed any girl could view him as a "man of her life"

JMO

I don’t know about wallowing in his addictions. I would have thought, given it’s part of social occasion and socialising, that’s more indulging in one’s addictions (with the actual psychology behind those choices being up for debate).
Regardless, they’re indulgences along with the decked out vehicle etc, that wouldn’t be possible unless he was reaping the benefits of still living at hOme and being provided for.

 

[Cedars]

This doesn't compute for me. Calling 000 is better all the way around than going to all the trouble of finishing her off, disposing the body and having that on one's conscience let alone to possibly getting caught and the repercussions. I know hit and runs are a thing but to take it that far doesn't seem realistic to me. But maybe a panicked person still under the of fog drugs.. who knows.

I think that is the kind of story that a murderer might tell, to try to get off, but I wouldn't believe them.

Like the story a guy told of how his girlfriend hurt herself hiking and begged him to put her out of her misery, and so, altho he really minded doing it, he was such a good guy he strangled her to death, to save her from her intense pain...

People can't kill someone easily, like swatting a mosquito. There is a huge thing called conscience and empathy that doesn't allow us to casually kill another person, just, say, out of panic. (Unless one is a psychopath, and they don't experience panic). Thank goodness, because, if people feel unsafe now, imagine what that world would be like.

JMO

 

[Dotta]

I don’t know about wallowing in his addictions. I would have thought, given it’s part of social occasion and socialising, that’s more indulging in one’s addictions (with the actual psychology behind those choices being up for debate).
Regardless, they’re indulgences along with the decked out vehicle etc, that wouldn’t be possible unless he was reaping the benefits of still living at hOme and being provided for.

For me - "indulge" - means some kind of control over actions.

"Wallow" is more extreme, unrestrained activity, resulting in a bender.
Serious.
The younger one starts, the worse one finishes IMO.

Not to mention causing tragedy to others.

Let's call addictions by their real names.

 

[ZombieKittie]

Another thought I had I think it's safe to assume that if he had been drinking all night he would have tried to stick to backroads as the police would have probably been out in force waiting to pick up drink drivers given there was a music festival in town that weekend

 

[Toowong(s)]

I notice this keeps coming up.

No, hitting someone by accident and failing to render aid, will not lead to a murder charge anywhere that I know of. That is manslaughter: inadvertently causing death, no matter how carelessly or negligently.

Murder is not defined by statute, but by common law (tradition), so it is essentially the same throughout the English-speaking world, and the legalities were sorted out in courts hundreds of years ago in England.

The key to a murder charge is formally known as, in Latin, 'mens rea' - the guilty mind. Prosecution must prove the person knew what they were going to do was murder, before they did it. The murderer knew it was deeply wrong, but did it anyway, deliberately, with intent to murder. If the victim survived, it was by accident, because they meant to kill them dead.

Another way it has been described is 'with malice aforethought'

No 'whoops, I got distracted, I didn't mean to stab him in the heart', 'oops, the gun went off as I vigourously cleaned it, it just happened to be aimed directly at her head from 2 feet away,' etc.

Murder - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

It's really not that complicated. I don't understand how, before the arrest, everyone was quite happy to speculate that her husband was a murderer, but seem so sqeamish about it with regards to the real suspect.

JMO

Cedars, nothing squeamish about deliberately allowing or assisting someone to die, finishing them off so to speak, so you can hide the body, after initially accidentally hitting them with a car. That is the theory I was trying to describe, as have other WSers, among a few other theories that were also not squeamish. All are murder.

I don’t think anyone is disputing the murder charge, nor requires a link Wikipedia. Just theorising different ways it may have played out. Let the theories flow.

 

[Voluspa]

Im not sure what country you are from but a 22 year old still living with their parents is extremely common in Australia. Also, a son taking an apprenticeship in his fathers business is also very common and then taking over when the father retires. Sadly, the alcohol and drugs are very common in that age group and not considered unusual amongst their mates.

Exactly right. These are common within Australian culture.

From the outside looking in, many people have stated he seems like your typical boy next door - tradie, footballer, has a seemingly loving relationship with his girlfriend, drinks at the pub/club, loves camping and 4x4ing, parents still married, two sisters. It's a shock someone his age with his whole life ahead of him would do this.

As time goes on we're hearing locals speak out, people that went to school with him talking about his personality which seems troubling, entitled and aggressive. We're seeing videos of drug taking.

Is he this stalking, plotting, sexually motivated natural born killer? A psychopath? Or a selfish private school boy with no accountability for his actions that made an impulsive drug-fuelled decision?

 

[OrangeCash]

Is he this stalking, plotting, sexually motivated natural born killer? A psychopath? Or a selfish private school boy with no accountability for his actions that made an impulsive drug-fuelled decision?

I think all of this could apply, rather than it being 1 or the other

MOO

 

[possumheart]

Exactly right. These are common within Australian culture.

From the outside looking in, many people have stated he seems like your typical boy next door - tradie, footballer, has a seemingly loving relationship with his girlfriend, drinks at the pub/club, loves camping and 4x4ing, parents still married, two sisters. It's a shock someone his age with his whole life ahead of him would do this.

As time goes on we're hearing locals speak out, people that went to school with him talking about his personality which seems troubling, entitled and aggressive. We're seeing videos of drug taking.

Is he this stalking, plotting, sexually motivated natural born killer? A psychopath? Or a selfish private school boy with no accountability for his actions that made an impulsive drug-fuelled decision?

I think he felt he was someone, by association, from a formative age.
He realized he wasn’t going to be revered like his father so has chosen, by a very bad deed, to be notorious.

 

[Tricia]

Hey Everyone,

The thread is closing for the night. It will reopen in the morning.
Thank you,
Tricia

 

[Knitty]

Thread is open.

 

[SouthAussie]

The Australian is reporting that there are still community members searching for Samantha, as per the mayor Des Hudson.

The mayor says that the search area is still fairly broad, that the search corridor is significant and a little remote even though it is on the edge of the city.

Ballarat community still hopeful of finding Samantha Murphy’s body

 

[TrunkImagine]

MOO

I think following the night out he may have had a fight with his girlfriend and left the Scotsburn home to go stay at his parents house. Somewhere along the way he has come across Samantha on her morning run. I believe in his angry, drug fuelled state he sexually assaulted her, and then murdered her to avoid being reported. He has then disposed of her somewhere using his car.

I also wonder whether he has a history of violence toward his partner? It would fit the bill.

MOO

 

[Marg944]

I looked at PS’s white ute using Google lens, and it is a 2014 Isuzu D Max, which do not come with GPS.

Does Isuzu D-Max has GPS navigation system?​

Does Isuzu D-Max has GPS navigation system?

None of the 4 versions of Isuzu D-Max has GPS Navigation System.

Isuzu D-Max 2021 FAQs - Frequently Asked Questions | CarTrade

Isuzu D-Max 2021 FAQs - Find D-Max 2021 related frequently asked questions and answers at CarTrade.

www.cartrade.com

 

[solari]

I looked at PS’s white ute using Google lens, and it is a 2014 Isuzu D Max, which do not come with GPS.

Does Isuzu D-Max has GPS navigation system?​

Does Isuzu D-Max has GPS navigation system?

None of the 4 versions of Isuzu D-Max has GPS Navigation System.

Isuzu D-Max 2021 FAQs - Frequently Asked Questions | CarTrade

Isuzu D-Max 2021 FAQs - Find D-Max 2021 related frequently asked questions and answers at CarTrade.

www.cartrade.com

If it's the car featured in the news, I located the rego, it's 2019 as mentioned earlier in thread

 

[KathPlumber]

Hi all, great news they’ve made an arrest. Such a tough time for MM and SMs whole family but at least all the misdirected theories and innuendo can stop.

Just caught up on pages and pages since Wednesday, some interesting commentary. Most interested in how the murder charge is laid out, police commentary is very firm on this being murder not hit and run, yet the facts and info as we know them don’t quite fit.

Not sure when we find more out, maybe not until court proceedings. But a chance to refine my top two theories in light of the accused being revealed, and the alleged partying the night before.

My main theory pre-arrest was random stalker. In light of alleged night of partying I don’t think this is likely a pre-planned stalker attack.

More likely something spontaneous, on a bender, friends all partied out, the accused still fired up and on a big high, decides to act on an impulsive fantasy and sets out to find a victim. So I am refining to deliberate, but spontaneous, drug fuelled attack that fulfills some sort of twisted fantasy. Not sure on this angle anymore though.

My other theory pre arrest was SM encountered someone who was up to no good already and they’ve covered their tracks and hidden the evidence, including an accidental “hit, hide & run” by someone who couldn’t afford to get caught drink/drug driving. This fits better for me, the accused heading home from night of partying, struck SM with car or motorbike, freaked out. However police said emphatic no to this being a hit and run. I wonder though, could it still be a vehicle accident at first, reckless driving leading to SM being struck, but in failing to render assistance, provide first aid, call paramedics, deliberately allowing SM to pass, then deliberate cover up and hiding the body, can this amount to a murder charge? Deliberate intent to let someone die.

Perhaps evidence from smart watch data shows SM survived the initial accident but was killed later, in mercy, or even just by failing to help, the accused has shown intent to let SM die. Then further compound things by covering up, hiding evidence, staying quiet for a month.

Could this come under the “reckless endangerment of life” definition of murder. Intent to deliberately let someone die, following an accident. Not sure about this either. Perhaps police know this will likely get downgraded to manslaughter but had enough to try for a murder, hoping for a deal to be made to find the body and close it out cleanly?

Lastly another theory could be deliberate striking by car. There are numerous video games that allow deliberate, graphic run down of pedestrians in a vehicle to be played out. It’s sick, I can’t believe they exist but they do. Could someone develop a fantasy about actually doing this, and juiced up on coke, actually set out in the car to find a victim? Maybe even record themselves doing it and brag to a friend, leading to sufficient evidence for police to run with murder charge?

Time will tell. Thanks to all the WSers on this, I think it’s a type of vigil for a victim and form of therapy in a confronting case. I will stop theorising now and see what police have come up with, just glad there is some closure and I’m sure they will find SM now so full closure can be achieved for her family.

Just wanted to say that I agree with all the theories you have written here! Bang on, some of them, I’d say. Nice sentiment about WS too, thanks