Shannan Gilbert's 23 Minute 911 Call #2

[Betty P]

Based on the 911 call Shannon thinks that Michael Pak and Joseph Brewer are setting her up to be killed, but there doesn’t seem to be any other information that supports that, nor any information that supports that Michael Pak and Joseph Brewer knew each other before that evening.

We know that Joseph Brewer wanted her out of his house, and that she ultimately ran from the house.

Based on her interactions with Gus Colleti and Barbara Brennan she ended up in the vicinity of Peter Hackett’s house.

We know that Peter Hackett acted unofficially as an Emergency Medical Provider inside of Oak Beach, and that he had some sort of interaction with Shannon in that capacity based on the phone calls to Mari Gilbert, and affidavits of certain Oak Beach residents.

We know she was found in the marsh just off the shoulder of Ocean Parkway (along the route Michael Pak would’ve had to drive to get back to Manhattan), and that her belongings were found in the vicinity of Peter Hackett’s house (minus any cash she may have had).

Joseph Brewer may not have had intercourse with Shannon, but may have engaged in other sexual acts that would not necessarily have revealed Shannon’s gender.

The public doesn't know much about what happened that night, only official stories from some of the people involved, some voices on the 911 call and a couple of neighbors who were in the role of by-standers as Shannon tried to escape Oak Beach. It took several years of court battles, including appeals, to obtain the 911 call tapes and have them released to the public.

We're only hearing part of the story about that night. We don't know who was present that night, what they did or why. It's very possible others were involved.

 

[Ruminations]

Based on the 911 call Shannon thinks that Michael Pak and Joseph Brewer are setting her up to be killed, but there doesn’t seem to be any other information that supports that, nor any information that supports that Michael Pak and Joseph Brewer knew each other before that evening.

We know that Joseph Brewer wanted her out of his house, and that she ultimately ran from the house.

Based on her interactions with Gus Colleti and Barbara Brennan she ended up in the vicinity of Peter Hackett’s house.

We know that Peter Hackett acted unofficially as an Emergency Medical Provider inside of Oak Beach, and that he had some sort of interaction with Shannon in that capacity based on the phone calls to Mari Gilbert, and affidavits of certain Oak Beach residents.

We know she was found in the marsh just off the shoulder of Ocean Parkway (along the route Michael Pak would’ve had to drive to get back to Manhattan), and that her belongings were found in the vicinity of Peter Hackett’s house (minus any cash she may have had).

Joseph Brewer may not have had intercourse with Shannon, but may have engaged in other sexual acts that would not necessarily have revealed Shannon’s gender.

We have to agree to disagree on this. IMO, you are not understanding what is known.

It is known that Pak and Brewer arranged what Shannan believed was a working date.

Maybe it was a recent aqaintance, but clearly Pak and Brewer were the main two in communication. They arranged the alleged working date.

It will be a wonderful thing if Brewer or Pak's phone records were preserved. But if so, AFAIK, they are not available to sleuths like you and me. So all we have is the word of known liars about communication, and Shannan's preserved records. There is communication between Shannan and Pak, but NOT Shannan and Brewer. Varrone, if I got the right name, said in an early interview in the Dormer days that Pak was the go between. Pak and Brewer admit to communicating about address, directions, gate code, etc.

So why would Brewer go outside to tell Pak come get her, instead of calling or texting? That is sus, and likely part of what caused Shannan to realize she was being set up. It is likely part of what caused her to realize that Pak was part of a plot to harm her the whole time.

There is no reason to believe Brewer's narrative that he wanted her to go. FIRST on the 911 tape he says let's all go together. SECOND he says I'm going upstairs; you get her out. (Brewer addresses Pak congenially, and trusts him and Shannan unsupervised in his living/dining room.) Both levels of that home, the floor with the living room and "upstairs" from there, has an alternative exit that can be used to get right back to the driveway. To me, given that Brewer first tried to all leave together, and later abandoned that to go upstairs, he knew that Shannan knew something was up and he would try to be less suspicious to Shannan by pretending he wasn't going, too.

Also, note how late in the conversation going to Manhattan comes up. And after Shannan says I want to go home. The men at first are just saying it's time to go, together, and where is not specified. Shannan says she wants to go home. Then Pak says he'll take her to Manhattan (not NJ, aware of the 911 call and trafficking laws).

<modsnip: no source link to deposition being discussed/accusations against someone not named a POI>

MOO

Edit: and, I'm sorry, the whole "she's a dude," thing is absurd. Unless Brewer had a break of some sort, it just isn't credible that the thought came to his head hours later. And if he was repulsed by this, it doesn't comport with his behavior on the 911 tape. It also doesn't seem likely given she used one stage name, and repeatedly asked Pak why he used her "real" name in front of Brewer. A trans woman would have likely called her male name her real name then, before BC changes were possible. I understand that there are plenty of sexual services one can provide clothed. but I still don't believe the question emerged hours into the so-called date.

 

[snarast]

I'm seriously doubting we would know about Shannan at all if it weren't for Hackett's call to Mari Gilbert. It's the triggering of the highly perceptive and confrontational Mari Gilbert that got this ball rolling.

Did someone send Hackett a message by placing Shannan and her items so close to his house?

Of course, I'm not sure why the person who would do something like that wouldn't just kill Hackett instead - but who knows how sociopathic <modsnip: profanity> think.

 

[PillowofWinds]

The public doesn't know much about what happened that night, only official stories from some of the people involved, some voices on the 911 call and a couple of neighbors who were in the role of by-standers as Shannon tried to escape Oak Beach. It took several years of court battles, including appeals, to obtain the 911 call tapes and have them released to the public.

We're only hearing part of the story about that night. We don't know who was present that night, what they did or why. It's very possible others were involved.

I think it is important to take a step back and start with the fact that Brewer and Pak can't be trusted, and most of what they say is probably lies. Some things I have noticed...how can we really know if Shannan actually started her trip to OB at Brewer's? And if Pak was only the driver, and not the go between, then Shannan would have had brewers phone number and address in order to tell pak where to bring her. She had no idea where she was, she probably just saw jones beach signs on the way there. that alone tells me that pak set up the meeting. if we listen to her words, "there's someone after me"...odd thing to say if you were already in a house with people there. she was obviously scared to go outside. who was outside? i think she was running and hiding before she called 911. and what was pak doing that she kept saying stop? im trying to rid my mind of anything that pak and brewer stated as their bs story, and look at the actual solid facts. perhaps she was further down the road from brewers at another house and ran away and was being chased. there is no hard evidence that she was at brewers before that call. just what these liars are saying. she did not want to leave brewers house so what was scaring her about leaving? she didnt say im in a house with 2 men and they are going to kill me. she said someone was after her. all of those people and no one says hey lets check the gate camera tape to see if we can tell if she left with someone. has anyone else considered she may have been somewhere else in OB before Brewer's? the scalises seem very interested in the incident and bring hackett into the picture.

 

[White_Rabbit]

I think it is important to take a step back and start with the fact that Brewer and Pak can't be trusted, and most of what they say is probably lies.

Agreed.

And if Pak was only the driver, and not the go between, then Shannan would have had brewers phone number and address in order to tell pak where to bring her.

This is a good point.

has anyone else considered she may have been somewhere else in OB before Brewer's?

I’ve honestly not considered this until now.

You have definitely made some excellent points and raised some good questions.

If we make our starting point the moment Shannan ran from Joseph Brewer’s house pursued by Michael Pak, we can establish that she was in no doubt afraid for her life (even of her driver who she had trusted to some extent before), she made her way down the Fairway to Gus Colleti’s house, and then all the way down Anchor way to Barbara Brennan’s house. When she left Barbara Brennan’s house she was within minutes of Peter Hackett’s house. Peter Hackett admitted through his phone conversations with Mari Gilbert that he had interaction with Shannan in the capacity of a caregiver. Michael Pak was pursuing her down the only road that led toward Barbara Brennan’s house from the Fairway. This all points to Peter Hackett and Michael Pak as being persons around Shannan during her final moments.

 

[Betty P]

I think it is important to take a step back and start with the fact that Brewer and Pak can't be trusted, and most of what they say is probably lies. Some things I have noticed...how can we really know if Shannan actually started her trip to OB at Brewer's? And if Pak was only the driver, and not the go between, then Shannan would have had brewers phone number and address in order to tell pak where to bring her. She had no idea where she was, she probably just saw jones beach signs on the way there. that alone tells me that pak set up the meeting. if we listen to her words, "there's someone after me"...odd thing to say if you were already in a house with people there. she was obviously scared to go outside. who was outside? i think she was running and hiding before she called 911. and what was pak doing that she kept saying stop? im trying to rid my mind of anything that pak and brewer stated as their bs story, and look at the actual solid facts. perhaps she was further down the road from brewers at another house and ran away and was being chased. there is no hard evidence that she was at brewers before that call. just what these liars are saying. she did not want to leave brewers house so what was scaring her about leaving? she didnt say im in a house with 2 men and they are going to kill me. she said someone was after her. all of those people and no one says hey lets check the gate camera tape to see if we can tell if she left with someone. has anyone else considered she may have been somewhere else in OB before Brewer's? the scalises seem very interested in the incident and bring hackett into the picture.

Agree. We can't trust the word of Pak, Brewer or Dr. Peter Hackett. We only know what's on the 911 call that Shannan made and the one made by Gus Coletti.

My theory is that there was someone at Brewer's house (or perhaps another house in the area) who frightened Shannan when she interacted with them. We don't know how many people were at the "party" or who they were. It's very possible some of them left before she made the 911 call.

It's possible Shannan feared going outside Brewer's house because one of those unknown people she feared was out there. It might explain why she ran hysterically around the neighborhood, calling for help while Pak drove in his vehicle. She was possibly afraid of someone who was out there in the dark, who had been at the party. It might explain why she called 911 - because the only people she trusted to get her out of Oak Beach alive was LE.

By the time they got there, it was too late. Where was she? At Hackett's house, as he claimed? Did he give her drugs? Did someone drug her earlier in the night as part of some game?

ETA: Yes, its possible Shannan was somewhere else in Oak Beach before she called 911 from Brewer's house. She didn't know where she was and that would explain it. In that dark neighborhood, she couldn't find her way out.

 

[snarast]

Is it possible they were using a webcam arrangement from the partyhouse to advertise the flavour of that particular sex party - ie Shannan.

That would kind of show case the goods and even if someone said they had to stay in they may have instead transported themselves to the Brewer house

I guess thats a bit fancifull, though. I’m just brainstorming and I haven’t thought much about the technological mechanics of sex party advertisements before.

 

[Ruminations]

@white rabbit, this was posted on a different Shannan thread. It is part of what solidified by contention that Shannan has a product role, not a seller role, the night she was murdered.

 

[Ruminations]

Agree. We can't trust the word of Pak, Brewer or Dr. Peter Hackett. We only know what's on the 911 call that Shannan made and the one made by Gus Coletti.

My theory is that there was someone at Brewer's house (or perhaps another house in the area) who frightened Shannan when she interacted with them. We don't know how many people were at the "party" or who they were. It's very possible some of them left before she made the 911 call.

It's possible Shannan feared going outside Brewer's house because one of those unknown people she feared was out there. It might explain why she ran hysterically around the neighborhood, calling for help while Pak drove in his vehicle. She was possibly afraid of someone who was out there in the dark, who had been at the party. It might explain why she called 911 - because the only people she trusted to get her out of Oak Beach alive was LE.

By the time they got there, it was too late. Where was she? At Hackett's house, as he claimed? Did he give her drugs? Did someone drug her earlier in the night as part of some game?

ETA: Yes, its possible Shannan was somewhere else in Oak Beach before she called 911 from Brewer's house. She didn't know where she was and that would explain it. In that dark neighborhood, she couldn't find her way out.

The new cabbie-by-night witness changed a lot for me by making it clear that Shannan had been on Long Island. (Area people don't call Queens and Brooklyn Long Island, so neither am I.)

<modsnip>, and it makes sense to rent a hotel room there and post a new in town or back in town ad.

But the night Shannan was murdered, her ads were NYC. I don't know how Pak and Brewer hooked up, but it certainly wasn't Brewer randomly scrolling through NYC ads.

That would be an interesting, though not provative, detail: How/where did Brewer typically buy sex?

MOO

 

[Betty P]

The new cabbie-by-night witness changed a lot for me by making it clear that Shannan had been on Long Island. (Area people don't call Queens and Brooklyn Long Island, so neither am I.)

<modsnip> and it makes sense to rent a hotel room there and post a new in town or back in town ad.

But the night Shannan was murdered, her ads were NYC. I don't know how Pak and Brewer hooked up, but it certainly wasn't Brewer randomly scrolling through NYC ads.

That would be an interesting, though not provative, detail: How/where did Brewer typically buy sex?

MOO

Remember the cabbie saying, after she drove Shannan from that motel where Rex tried to attack her, Shannan said she didn't like those Long Island guys who make her come out there. Something about her not liking to go out to Long Island. I had the impression someone from that Suffolk/Nassau County crew had reached out to her before to come to LI. Someone talked her into it. Had Rex been stalking her from his office in Manhattan? Wasn't there mention of Rex H and his wife owning property in New Jersey? Was Rex the one who first made contact with her, then talked her to coming out for "parties"? All of this can be verified and tracked. I hope the Suffolk County DA does it.

BTW, what was with Rex and his wife's extensive real estate portfolio? They owned property in quite a few places, including timeshares, etc. yet they couldn't pay their taxes or basic bills. I hope Suffolk County has done a forensic audit on Rex and his finances.

 

[Ruminations]

Remember the cabbie saying, after she drove Shannan from that motel where Rex tried to attack her, Shannan said she didn't like those Long Island guys who make her come out there. Something about her not liking to go out to Long Island. I had the impression someone from that Suffolk/Nassau County crew had reached out to her before to come to LI. Someone talked her into it. Had Rex been stalking her from his office in Manhattan? Wasn't there mention of Rex H and his wife owning property in New Jersey? Was Rex the one who first made contact with her, then talked her to coming out for "parties"? All of this can be verified and tracked. I hope the Suffolk County DA does it.

BTW, what was with Rex and his wife's extensive real estate portfolio? They owned property in quite a few places, including timeshares, etc. yet they couldn't pay their taxes or basic bills. I hope Suffolk County has done a forensic audit on Rex and his finances.

I hadn't remembered that part about the nighttime cabbie. Thanks!

Also, I'm with you on wanting to know about those properties, and if they were not occupied by Rex, were they vacant or occupied by ---whom? Why?

MOO

edited to add: I was under the impression, I think because of Kolker, that Shannan had never been to LI. And Kolkers information was largely from Pak.

 

[Ruminations]

Is it possible they were using a webcam arrangement from the partyhouse to advertise the flavour of that particular sex party - ie Shannan.

That would kind of show case the goods and even if someone said they had to stay in they may have instead transported themselves to the Brewer house

I guess thats a bit fancifull, though. I’m just brainstorming and I haven’t thought much about the technological mechanics of sex party advertisements before.

Ewww. And duh! What better way for a sex purchaser to multiply the value of the product than with a web cam.

Home surveillance wasn't yet ubiquitous...but recording And sharing video files was getting facile.

moo

 

[White_Rabbit]

The only problem I have with this is that I’m no longer able to see the post that was deleted, and therefore cannot see if post contained information that did not violate policy nor can I see what was deemed as violating policy so I can correct it.

(I will laugh if this post gets deleted for violating policy)

 

[PillowofWinds]

Agree. We can't trust the word of Pak, Brewer or Dr. Peter Hackett. We only know what's on the 911 call that Shannan made and the one made by Gus Coletti.

My theory is that there was someone at Brewer's house (or perhaps another house in the area) who frightened Shannan when she interacted with them. We don't know how many people were at the "party" or who they were. It's very possible some of them left before she made the 911 call.

It's possible Shannan feared going outside Brewer's house because one of those unknown people she feared was out there. It might explain why she ran hysterically around the neighborhood, calling for help while Pak drove in his vehicle. She was possibly afraid of someone who was out there in the dark, who had been at the party. It might explain why she called 911 - because the only people she trusted to get her out of Oak Beach alive was LE.

By the time they got there, it was too late. Where was she? At Hackett's house, as he claimed? Did he give her drugs? Did someone drug her earlier in the night as part of some game?

ETA: Yes, its possible Shannan was somewhere else in Oak Beach before she called 911 from Brewer's house. She didn't know where she was and that would explain it. In that dark neighborhood, she couldn't find her way out.

We also have Barbara Brennan's version of events which strongly contradicts Tom Canning's version. One of them is lying. And Joe Scalise's signed statement. I don't get why it seems like no one is blowing up these FACTS and asking who is lying and why. I can't see Barbara Brennan having a reason to lie, but I do not know her.