Shannan Gilbert's 23 Minute 911 Call #2

[Bree1950]

Do you think Pak exited to the deck upstairs and then came in the downstairs door?

Good point!

 

[snarast]

I just thought it was worth noting that John Ray says the audio played at the 911-call press conference was edited.

See JR in the clip talking about this from 13.51 onward in the clip below.

 

[Ruminations]

I just thought it was worth noting that John Ray says the audio played at the 911-call press conference was edited.

See JR in the clip talking about this from 13.51 onward in the clip below.

Yes. For whatever reason, LE felt the needs to give a lenthy introduction to what was going to be released, offering chopped quotes and stating things that happened out of context to make them seem irrational. They also paused the tape to comment at moments when there was tension and fear building in my listening for Shannan, such as her politely yet desperately and with fear begging, "no, please, what are you going to do, please, stop" type quotes. Then the police, as that is intensifying, pause the tape and say in a calm, de-escalating voice, "Now you hear her scream," completely breaking the scream away from the build up, and normalizing the scream which is anything but normal. The listener is relieved of the building terror with the calm voices of the LE presenters. They continue the tape, and Shannan lets out a horrific, terrified scream and the run down the block begins. The scream is expected now, because of the editing. It sounds out of the blue, because police presenters just calmed and reassured the listeners.

John Ray also mentioned the footage LE showed of the area they say Shannan may have entered the marsh. Police shined a bright spotlight on it at dawn, or just before dawn. Shannan was last seen at the time in the morning when sunlight is reflected off the sky and is softly illuminating the morning, but before the sun is up. With LE's artificial light glaring on the reeds, the inside of the marsh looks dark. Others have been in the reeds at the same hour, when there is some light from the about-to-rise sun, with no artificial lights on the reeds. As it is lighter outside the reeds than inside, they can clearly see through the reeds surrounding them and out to houses in the area. It is not visually disorienting in the marsh at predawn.

But police showed video footage that lied In images as to what the marsh was like at that hour, as they did voiceovers, or played portions of the 911 tape over that image.

I think the hope was people would only listen to the distorted LE presentation, then skip the horrific, raw recording of someone about to get murdered. It is certainly easier to listen to. Or, if they did listen, let them hear it reassured by LE that nothing happened on that tape. IMO, there are many people who save themselves the trauma of listening to a young, bright and talented woman, who was perhaps at the predawn of her life ---studying, cooperating with LE in a trafficking/laundering case --- knowing that she was about to get murdered, that Shannan was misinterpreting the situation. It's more comfortable to tell oneself she was having some kind of psychotic break. One has to use very twisted logic to think this was some kind of accident and Shannan was crazy. But I think it is easier to believe than the truth.

The 911 tape is haunting. (No pun intended on the day before Halloween.) Shannan tried so hard to save her life. Now we have to get her justice.

MOO

 

[WINDSOR]

Since the very beginning the SCPD has tried to discredit the validity of Shannan's words, actions and behaviors that night.
A woman calls 911. She claims somebody is trying to kill her. She dies that night under mysterious circumstances. The SCPD cannot explain logically what happened, how she ended up in the marsh; how and under what circumstances she was treated by Dr. Hackett; how she lost her clothes; they cannot explain the missing hyoid bone; or how the video tapes at the exit gate were erased; but says nothing criminal happened.

 

[Ruminations]

Since the very beginning the SCPD has tried to discredit the validity of Shannan's words, actions and behaviors that night.
A woman calls 911. She claims somebody is trying to kill her. She dies that night under mysterious circumstances. The SCPD cannot explain logically what happened, how she ended up in the marsh; how and under what circumstances she was treated by Dr. Hackett; how she lost her clothes; they cannot explain the missing hyoid bone; or how the video tapes at the exit gate were erased; but says nothing criminal happened.

Yes, yes, yes. But maybe John Ray and Rodney Harrison are turning that old ship around- bearings set on justice.

MOO

 

[snarast]

I think the hope was people would only listen to the distorted LE presentation, then skip the horrific, raw recording of someone about to get murdered. It is certainly easier to listen to. Or, if they did listen, let them hear it reassured by LE that nothing happened on that tape. IMO, there are many people who save themselves the trauma of listening to a young, bright and talented woman, who was perhaps at the predawn of her life ---studying, cooperating with LE in a trafficking/laundering case --- knowing that she was about to get murdered, that Shannan was misinterpreting the situation. It's more comfortable to tell oneself she was having some kind of psychotic break. One has to use very twisted logic to think this was some kind of accident and Shannan was crazy. But I think it is easier to believe than the truth.

This. Is. So. Disturbing.

It has the ring of truth to it. And at this point, it's deafening.

 

[White_Rabbit]

Since the very beginning the SCPD has tried to discredit the validity of Shannan's words, actions and behaviors that night.
A woman calls 911. She claims somebody is trying to kill her. She dies that night under mysterious circumstances. The SCPD cannot explain logically what happened, how she ended up in the marsh; how and under what circumstances she was treated by Dr. Hackett; how she lost her clothes; they cannot explain the missing hyoid bone; or how the video tapes at the exit gate were erased; but says nothing criminal happened.

I’m certain that the two persons who know more than anyone about what happened to Shannan Gilbert will keep their terrible secret to the grave, and I believe those persons are Peter Hackett and Michael Pak.

 

[WINDSOR]

I’m certain that the two persons who know more than anyone about what happened to Shannan Gilbert will keep their terrible secret to the grave, and I believe those persons are Peter Hackett and Michael Pak.

All LE has to do is get one person to talk, Brewer, Hackett, Pak, or Diaz. One of these men know what really happened.
Hard to believe at least one of them will not talk if given the right incentive.

 

[White_Rabbit]

All LE has to do is get one person to talk, Brewer, Hackett, Pak, or Diaz. One of these men know what really happened.
Hard to believe at least one of them will not talk if given the right incentive.

I don't believe Joseph Brewer nor Alex Diaz is guilty in the death of Shannon Gilbert, but definitely Peter Hackett and Michael Pak. I believe Michael Pak is a hardened criminal and won't crack, and Peter Hackett has too much to lose to let the truth be known. Maybe one day Peter Hackett will give a death bed confession similar to E. Howard Hunt.

 

[Ruminations]

All LE has to do is get one person to talk, Brewer, Hackett, Pak, or Diaz. One of these men know what really happened.
Hard to believe at least one of them will not talk if given the right incentive.

That's why it's quizzical and infuriating that neither Brewer nor Pak were picked up immediately- they did solicit/traffic. Both are arrest-worthy on themselves, even if the murder part is much more serious.

MOO

 

[Ruminations]

I don't believe Joseph Brewer nor Alex Diaz is guilty in the death of Shannon Gilbert, but definitely Peter Hackett and Michael Pak. I believe Michael Pak is a hardened criminal and won't crack, and Peter Hackett has too much to lose to let the truth be known. Maybe one day Peter Hackett will give a death bed confession similar to E. Howard Hunt.

Then why the lies?

If the "only" thing they are guilty of is not being a narc- they should be in jail. There's a dif between not speaking up when a buddy shoplifts and not speaking up when a buddy murders.

MOO

 

[White_Rabbit]

Then why the lies?

If the "only" thing they are guilty of is not being a narc- they should be in jail. There's a dif between not speaking up when a buddy shoplifts and not speaking up when a buddy murders.

MOO

Please don’t get me wrong. I’m not saying that the other two are model citizens at all. I don’t feel that Shannan’s death was pre-meditated. I only believe that what ultimately happened to Shannan was a result of an unintended consequence of Peter Hackett’s actions, and a deliberate action on the part of Michael Pak.

 

[Ruminations]

Please don’t get me wrong. I’m not saying that the other two are model citizens at all. I don’t feel that Shannan’s death was pre-meditated. I only believe that what ultimately happened to Shannan was a result of an unintended consequence of Peter Hackett’s actions, and a deliberate action on the part of Michael Pak.

Possibly...

My thought is if Shannan died unintentionally, it occurred when she was imminently to be harmed intentionally. And the criminal difference isn't huge.

Listening to the 911 call, I can't believe for a second that Brewer did not intend to deliver her to harm or participate in harming her...trying to get her to leave with him.

For a second time that night, apparently. Maybe wherever they went the first time was to groom/normalize the abduction/imprisonment trip when Brewer tried to get Shannan to leave his house with him.

MOO

 

[WINDSOR]

Please don’t get me wrong. I’m not saying that the other two are model citizens at all. I don’t feel that Shannan’s death was pre-meditated. I only believe that what ultimately happened to Shannan was a result of an unintended consequence of Peter Hackett’s actions, and a deliberate action on the part of Michael Pak.

I cannot absolve Brewer of any involvement though. If it were not for Brewer, Shannan would not have been in Oak Beach that night and remember she called 911 from Brewer's house. That is where events began that led to her demise.

 

[White_Rabbit]

Possibly...

My thought is if Shannan died unintentionally, it occurred when she was imminently to be harmed intentionally. And the criminal difference isn't huge.

Listening to the 911 call, I can't believe for a second that Brewer did not intend to deliver her to harm or participate in harming her...trying to get her to leave with him.

For a second time that night, apparently. Maybe wherever they went the first time was to groom/normalize the abduction/imprisonment trip when Brewer tried to get Shannan to leave his house with him.

MOO

Joseph Brewer wanted Shannan out of his house that night, that much is clear, and I believe Shannon was harmed by Joseph Brewer or one of the other people in the house in an attempt to remove her. I feel that the extent of Joseph Brewer’s aggression toward Shannon was to remove her from the house, not to kill her.

I believe Joseph Brewer and Shannan left the house for a short period of time to buy drugs from a local dealer.

I don’t think Peter Hackett had bad intentions when he allegedly administered a sedative to Shannon, but did not properly assess her condition in order to understand the contraindications. This possibly resulted into Shannon becoming unresponsive or even going into respiratory arrest.

I think Michael Pak made a conscious decision to avoid any legal trouble for himself, and believe he dumped Shannon into the marsh rather than call an ambulance or bring her to the hospital. I also believe he may have even dumped Shannon’s belongings into the vicinity of Peter Hackett’s house.

 

[White_Rabbit]

I cannot absolve Brewer of any involvement though. If it were not for Brewer, Shannan would not have been in Oak Beach that night and remember she called 911 from Brewer's house. That is where events began that led to her demise.

I can agree with you that Shannon would not have been there that night, but who could’ve possibly predicted the series of events that resulted.

 

[Ruminations]

Joseph Brewer wanted Shannan out of his house that night, that much is clear, and I believe Shannon was harmed by Joseph Brewer or one of the other people in the house in an attempt to remove her. I feel that the extent of Joseph Brewer’s aggression toward Shannon was to remove her from the house, not to kill her.

I believe Joseph Brewer and Shannan left the house for a short period of time to buy drugs from a local dealer.

I don’t think Peter Hackett had bad intentions when he allegedly administered a sedative to Shannon, but did not properly assess her condition in order to understand the contraindications. This possibly resulted into Shannon becoming unresponsive or even going into respiratory arrest.

I think Michael Pak made a conscious decision to avoid any legal trouble for himself, and believe he dumped Shannon into the marsh rather than call an ambulance or bring her to the hospital. I also believe he may have even dumped Shannon’s belongings into the vicinity of Peter Hackett’s house.

It is not at all clear to me that he wanted her out in the sense that the date was over.

That is his story...one of the few things he claimed rather than taking the fifth.

On the 911 tape, Brewer is trying to get Shannan to leave with him.

There is nothing to support the BS that Brewer was finished playing cards or whatever with Shannan and he wanted her to go. Listen to the 911 call with a pre-conception of Brewer was trying to bring Shannan to danger instead of with the preconception Brewer put out for years. Once you hear him trying to bring her to danger, it's very hard to not see it that way.

MOO

 

[White_Rabbit]

It is not at all clear to me that he wanted her out in the sense that the date was over.

That is his story...one of the few things he claimed rather than taking the fifth.

On the 911 tape, Brewer is trying to get Shannan to leave with him.

There is nothing to support the BS that Brewer was finished playing cards or whatever with Shannan and he wanted her to go. Listen to the 911 call with a pre-conception of Brewer was trying to bring Shannan to danger instead of with the preconception Brewer put out for years. Once you hear him trying to bring her to danger, it's very hard to not see it that way.

MOO

It is difficult to believe his story in it’s entirety, but there is enough information to surmise that he abruptly ended the date after extending it because he began to question Shannon’s gender, because of a question she raised about transvestites. I don’t think Shannon had a problem ending the date, but most likely insisted on being paid which most likely resulted in an aggressive argument which in turn became physically violent against her.

I think he repeatedly pleaded the fifth during his deposition because though he was not charged with soliciting prostitution, I believe admitting to it here would jeopardize his visitation rights with his child or children should his ex decide to subsequently pursue that.

When he told Shannon during the 911 call that they would all leave together I believe this was a ruse to get her out the door.

 

[Ruminations]

It is difficult to believe his story in it’s entirety, but there is enough information to surmise that he abruptly ended the date after extending it because he began to question Shannon’s gender, because of a question she raised about transvestites. I don’t think Shannon had a problem ending the date, but most likely insisted on being paid which most likely resulted in an aggressive argument which in turn became physically violent against her.

I think he repeatedly pleaded the fifth during his deposition because though he was not charged with soliciting prostitution, I believe admitting to it here would jeopardize his visitation rights with his child or children should his ex decide to subsequently pursue that.

When he told Shannon during the 911 call that they would all leave together I believe this was a ruse to get her out the door.

Well, that story does not ring true at all. Especially given that it does not seem credible that Brewer felt it to hire himself a sex worker that night and then checked Manhattan ads.

It's clear that Pak and Brewer negotiated "delivery," for lack of a better word. Varrone said Pak was the go between.

Im skeptical Brewer intended to have sex in any case, or if he did it was just a fringe benefit to that night's job for Brewer, to pose as a John. He was no stranger to including trafficked persons in his parties, but it is possible that that particular night, it wasn't that he was looking (in absurd places- Manhattan) for a sexual worker on impulse.

He and Pak had a business relationship- that is also clear in the 911 tapes.

(Edit/addition: not necessarily a long term relationship- they could have met that day. But Brewer and Pak communicated multiple times, Brewer gave Pak directions and gate code, Brewer and Pak admitted to several episodes of direct communication, even absurdly face to face at the car when phoning or texting would do- - I don't believe Brewer went out to tell Pak she won't go. Brewer came out to confirm the abduction was a go and everyone was in their positions. But listen to how they talk to one another. They are colluding.)

It's rather absurd to think it took hours with a sex worker who is in your home to suspect she's trans.

MOO

 

[White_Rabbit]

Well, that story does not ring true at all. Especially given that it does not seem credible that Brewer felt it to hire himself a sex worker that night and then checked Manhattan ads.

It's clear that Pak and Brewer negotiated "delivery," for lack of a better word. Varrone said Pak was the go between.

Im skeptical Brewer intended to have sex in any case, or if he did it was just a fringe benefit to that night's job for Brewer, to pose as a John. He was no stranger to including trafficked persons in his parties, but it is possible that that particular night, it wasn't that he was looking (in absurd places- Manhattan) for a sexual worker on impulse.

He and Pak had a business relationship- that is also clear in the 911 tapes.

(Edit/addition: not necessarily a long term relationship- they could have met that day. But Brewer and Pak communicated multiple times, Brewer gave Pak directions and gate code, Brewer and Pak admitted to several episodes of direct communication, even absurdly face to face at the car when phoning or texting would do- - I don't believe Brewer went out to tell Pak she won't go. Brewer came out to confirm the abduction was a go and everyone was in their positions. But listen to how they talk to one another. They are colluding.)

It's rather absurd to think it took hours with a sex worker who is in your home to suspect she's trans.

MOO

Based on the 911 call Shannon thinks that Michael Pak and Joseph Brewer are setting her up to be killed, but there doesn’t seem to be any other information that supports that, nor any information that supports that Michael Pak and Joseph Brewer knew each other before that evening.

We know that Joseph Brewer wanted her out of his house, and that she ultimately ran from the house.

Based on her interactions with Gus Colleti and Barbara Brennan she ended up in the vicinity of Peter Hackett’s house.

We know that Peter Hackett acted unofficially as an Emergency Medical Provider inside of Oak Beach, and that he had some sort of interaction with Shannon in that capacity based on the phone calls to Mari Gilbert, and affidavits of certain Oak Beach residents.

We know she was found in the marsh just off the shoulder of Ocean Parkway (along the route Michael Pak would’ve had to drive to get back to Manhattan), and that her belongings were found in the vicinity of Peter Hackett’s house (minus any cash she may have had).

Joseph Brewer may not have had intercourse with Shannon, but may have engaged in other sexual acts that would not necessarily have revealed Shannon’s gender.