SIDEBAR #6- Arias/Alexander forum

[rose222]

You missed my point. According to this juror, they were shocked that there was a mistrial, that they had no idea. So that is my question- how did that happen?

The foreman said that he had no idea the Judge would declare a mistrial. He said they had deliberated all they could. They were truly dead-locked. He thought the Judge would sentence JA to life with or without parole.

Here's what I think went through his mind. He was not a competent foreman. The minute I heard from him that they expressed their individuals opinions but did not try to influence one another I knew what this guy's agenda was.
He wanted life for JA and I think he wanted life with parole. He made no effort to have an open mind. He thought a hung jury would be fine. The Judge would sentence JA to life. The foreman would get what he wanted.

Why be surprised at a mistrial when you say so firmly that you were dead-locked? It scared him that there would be another trial. Another chance at death.

What a $$$%#$.

 

[Bravo]

It makes sense to me that perhaps the Jurors were not aware if their vote was split it would cause a mistrial. In my opinion it's best Jurors are not aware. It may influence their decision. Seems the DP issue is a hot debate. We have seen it here on the boards and our own personal discussions. This final verdict or lack of certainly illustrates that. IMO

 

[elementary]

We have only Mr. Foreman's word that "they" were shocked at the mistrial. I can believe that he was shocked, as he and reality don't seem to have a close relationship.

Agreed! That's why I left the question open-ended. . What really happened, because the jury as a whole did not seem clueless in the past?

 

[crimesnooper]

couldn't agree more! TA did NOT deserve what happened to him. but he was not perfect and he made a huge mistake----staying in touch with her after she moved back to CA. his naivete and inexperience cost him his life. i think he thought he WAS rid of her when she moved----he made no effort to see her. but a little phone sex? sure, why not. he just had no idea how sick she was, and despite his friends' warnings, he didn't cut it off. if he HAD done that, i think he'd still be dead, but these things couldn't have been held against him in court. that's part of what makes this so unbearably sad to me----he wasn't afraid ENOUGH of her.

i just wish one of the other jurors would come out and talk. for all we know, some of them have contacted the alexander family and privately expressed to them how they feel. i sincerely hope that has happened. we know the one alternate posted on the state page, expressing her feelings.

so while i wish this particular juror would STFU, i know his wasn't the only viewpoint in that jury room. he's just the only one who's saying anything so far, and he keeps talking and making it worse.

I so agree. I don't think he could have done anything to avoid being murdered except disappear. I think if you are not someone who would ever harm somone you just can't wrap your head around the idea that someone would kill you...becuase you would never do that. Although his friends say they saw someone off in JA it's still a jump to say she will kill you. Even if he had never opend the door that night or refused all contact with her...I think she would have killed him anyway. It might not have been so gruesome..she would have had to kill him out of the house therefore less time and more risk. But she would have done it. And can you imagine if he had gotten a hold of the gun and killed her and claimed self defense? Would he have been beleived???

 

[Sleuth5]

I so agree. I don't think he could have done anything to avoid being murdered except disappear. I think if you are not someone who would ever harm somone you just can't wrap your head around the idea that someone would kill you...becuase you would never do that. Although his friends say they saw someone off in JA it's still a jump to say she will kill you. Even if he had never opend the door that night or refused all contact with her...I think she would have killed him anyway. It might not have been so gruesome..she would have had to kill him out of the house therefore less time and more risk. But she would have done it. And can you imagine if he had gotten a hold of the gun and killed her and claimed self defense? Would he have been beleived???

That's a good point. She did a pretty good job of hiding her tracks, which is always part of her modus operandi. He might have had a tough time defending himself against a murder charge.

 

[SheltieMom1]

If the foreman thinks he can get some *love* from JA after his speech on her behalf then he can think again. The woman can only use and throw people. When she hears what he had to say she's going to think 'And you still voted for murder one you stu@id old man!'

He must not have seen the daggers JA shot Dr. Fog after he was done testilying....

 

[ontariolynn]

couldn't agree more! TA did NOT deserve what happened to him. but he was not perfect and he made a huge mistake----staying in touch with her after she moved back to CA. his naivete and inexperience cost him his life. i think he thought he WAS rid of her when she moved----he made no effort to see her. but a little phone sex? sure, why not. he just had no idea how sick she was, and despite his friends' warnings, he didn't cut it off. if he HAD done that, i think he'd still be dead, but these things couldn't have been held against him in court. that's part of what makes this so unbearably sad to me----he wasn't afraid ENOUGH of her.

i just wish one of the other jurors would come out and talk. for all we know, some of them have contacted the alexander family and privately expressed to them how they feel. i sincerely hope that has happened. we know the one alternate posted on the state page, expressing her feelings.

so while i wish this particular juror would STFU, i know his wasn't the only viewpoint in that jury room. he's just the only one who's saying anything so far, and he keeps talking and making it worse.

I totally agree especially for his family, they all wanted the DP, so every time
they have to read or see it on TV it is like a knife in their back, that someone, or more than (1) person felt that way it hurts them deeply, after all he was so brutally murdered, and they saw the pictures, the blood, and maybe even his dead body, so for me it would hurt me to the core, that would be the last thing I would want to hear, I do wish all of them would say nothing and just let it be, till everything is resolved one way or another.

 

[Tenaciousdae]

Morning all!:

I see this foreman story is still getting even more bizarre. I personally haven't seen any of it. Keep reminding yourselves that she is still cmja, and he is not on the next jury! Think of all the people you know that don't tweet and know its not impossible to find a good pool of people. JM hears all of this too, and this will only make his case clearer so there are no stones unturned!

:seeya:

 

[hindsight2020]

I just don't want to see a war of words between Jurors in the press. I wish the Foreman had taken some time before going public. Perhaps his words would have been respectful of Travis and the Alexander's. The Alexander's and Friends have endured enough pain. Anything negative about Travis is only going to cause more. For me all that matters is they/we got the first 2 verdicts. If the Alexander's want to see this thru I support them. If they choose not to in the days to come I support that too. As far as I'm concerned the Jury has spoken. IMO

I agree Bravo. In addition to coming off as an advocate for the murderer, Mr. Foreman does not say nor does it appear from his interviews that he had permission from the other jurors to speak on their behalf as he continually made reference to 'we' as if he was speaking for the rest of the jurors, presumptuous much?

I am hoping other jurors come forward so that we can get a clear picture of how they arrived at their decision. .

On another note, I hope JA is offered a plea of LWOP, and goes away. I don't want to hear/see her again or give her the satisfaction to deliver another grandiose self serving allocution, only because she relishes the spotlight. She will only garnish more media frenzy, and who knows what else, as this trial was full of many twists and turns, no thank you.

 

[Emmi]

It makes sense to me that perhaps the Jurors were not aware if their vote was split it would cause a mistrial. In my opinion it's best Jurors are not aware. It may influence their decision. Seems the DP issue is a hot debate. We have seen it here on the boards and our own personal discussions. This final verdict or lack of certainly illustrates that. IMO

You may be right that they didn't know a split vote would cause a mistrial. Not sure if this has been asked in the legal questions thread, but it would seem that anything that would tend force a unanimous vote would be ethically questionable. That is, after all, why there are lesser included charges in a death penalty trial: so that jurors are not forced to choose between extremes, when it's determined that culpability lies in some grey area.

 

[elementary]

I so agree. I don't think he could have done anything to avoid being murdered except disappear. I think if you are not someone who would ever harm somone you just can't wrap your head around the idea that someone would kill you...becuase you would never do that. Although his friends say they saw someone off in JA it's still a jump to say she will kill you. Even if he had never opend the door that night or refused all contact with her...I think she would have killed him anyway. It might not have been so gruesome..she would have had to kill him out of the house therefore less time and more risk. But she would have done it. And can you imagine if he had gotten a hold of the gun and killed her and claimed self defense? Would he have been beleived???

The irony! Travis is being blamed for not getting out of the relationship, for being naive. And yet that naivete is perfectly okay in a juror who ironically is mirroring Travis' attitude that it's hard to believe that a fragile 'girl' could do such a thing. And so it must be Travis' fault. No matter which way you turn, Travis can never win, it's always his fault.

 

[Mosby]

I so agree. I don't think he could have done anything to avoid being murdered except disappear. I think if you are not someone who would ever harm somone you just can't wrap your head around the idea that someone would kill you...becuase you would never do that. Although his friends say they saw someone off in JA it's still a jump to say she will kill you. Even if he had never opend the door that night or refused all contact with her...I think she would have killed him anyway. It might not have been so gruesome..she would have had to kill him out of the house therefore less time and more risk. But she would have done it. And can you imagine if he had gotten a hold of the gun and killed her and claimed self defense? Would he have been beleived???

BBM

ITA agree. No one would have believed him. He'd be sitting on DR today IMO.

 

[ncgramma]

The Slumber Party from Hell By Sue Ellen Allen
(Perryville general population)
Sounds too cushy for CMJA, IMO


http://books.google.com.au/books?id...a=X&ei=EcugUbLhN_TK0gHCvYHgCw&ved=0CDAQ6AEwAA

 

[strawberry]

The foreman said that he had no idea the Judge would declare a mistrial. He said they had deliberated all they could. They were truly dead-locked. He thought the Judge would sentence JA to life with or without parole.

Here's what I think went through his mind. He was not a competent foreman. The minute I heard from him that they expressed their individuals opinions but did not try to influence one another I knew what this guy's agenda was.
He wanted life for JA and I think he wanted life with parole. He made no effort to have an open mind. He thought a hung jury would be fine. The Judge would sentence JA to life. The foreman would get what he wanted.

Why be surprised at a mistrial when you say so firmly that you were dead-locked? It scared him that there would be another trial. Another chance at death.

What a $$$%#$.

I also think the early question about what to do with a deadlock went unanswered. I think the judge misunderstood that they wanted to know procedure. THEN later they put no unanimous decision on the verdict form instead of announcing they were deadlocked. I think the judge actually thought they had a verdict, and that the foreman thought this was a verdict. When the person read the verdict, she seemed confused. I think the judge was frustrated because she probably would have sent them back one more time. IMO

 

[ShadyLady]

One very telling comment among others was that Bill Z said there were two Jodis one before June 4 and one after.....WHAAAAAAT?

He conveniently forgot all about the pre-planning of the murder, guns, gas, cell phone?? The stalking? The snooping in emails?

Like I said before....he trashed the prosecution and Travis and gave all the Nurmi/Wilmot/Alyce talking points.

 

[Sleuth5]

The irony! Travis is being blamed for not getting out of the relationship, for being naive. And yet that naivete is perfectly okay in a juror who ironically is mirroring Travis' attitude that it's hard to believe that a fragile 'girl' could do such a thing. And so it must be Travis' fault. No matter which way you turn, Travis can never win, it's always his fault.

Wow. I didn't read it that way at all. I think she just meant that he couldn't have anticipated that she would actually kill him.

 

[SheltieMom1]

The irony! Travis is being blamed for not getting out of the relationship, for being naive. And yet that naivete is perfectly okay in a juror who ironically is mirroring Travis' attitude that it's hard to believe that a fragile 'girl' could do such a thing. And so it must be Travis' fault. No matter which way you turn, Travis can never win, it's always his fault.

OMGosh, you said it. This may be the most heartbreaking part of all of this. Not only is he dead, but he is made out to bear some responsibility for it. Shattering.

 

[Emmi]

I totally agree especially for his family, they all wanted the DP, so every time
they have to read or see it on TV it is like a knife in their back, that someone, or more than (1) person felt that way it hurts them deeply, after all he was so brutally murdered, and they saw the pictures, the blood, and maybe even his dead body, so for me it would hurt me to the core, that would be the last thing I would want to hear, I do wish all of them would say nothing and just let it be, till everything is resolved one way or another.

That more than one person didn't want to sentence Arias to death is like a knife in the back of the Alexander family?!

Since when is deciding not to kill one person the ultimate betrayal of another? It doesn't compute.

 

[Hope4More]

You missed my point. According to this juror, they were shocked that there was a mistrial, that they had no idea. So that is my question- how did that happen?

Sorry that I missed your point. As to how they could have been shocked... check out the locked thread, yesterday's posts. Lots of head scratching and less gentle responses. Still, could be that 18 speaks only of his own ignorance. I'm not going to believe what he's saying about the whole jury because he clearly speaks for the minority, if that.

 

[sayd]

I can understand why some jurors might want life without parole, but what I can't understand is WHY the foreman told the other jurors they had to respect each other's opinions and not to sway one another. On the juries I have been on, that is exactly what we did; discussed it, offering new information, challenging someone's not-so-well-thought-out opinion, until we got it right.

I also do not understand his need to grab the limelight, trash Travis Alexander, and be sympathetic to the murderer.