Sidebar Discussion #8

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Tugela said:
*snip taken from lawyer's thread quote*

Tugela said:



There was NO indication that Casey left the house without Caylee and even the convicted liar herself did not make that claim.
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Erhm...you might want to re-read the statement of yours, quoted above. If you were trying to make a point in Casey's favor, it was an epic fail.

Because Casey IS a convicted liar is exactly why she wouldn't be honest and admit that she left the house with Caylee!

Do any of you remember Pam (Rick's wife, I believe) or great-grandma Shirley's statements, that Cindy told them there was a huge fight the evening before out on the driveway and that Cindy had choked Casey? Cindy also told them that upon wakening the next morning, Casey and Caylee were already GONE from the home.

The main issue that has always been at the forefront to me in this case, is that it is NOT coincidence that Caylee was murdered at the most tumultuous time in Casey's life. Cindy had sought counseling due to Casey's lack of mothering Caylee. Cindy had FINALLY! pulled the plug on Casey's constant flow of household money - AND - last but by far not least, Cindy was steaming over the Nursing Home theft of Casey's; apparently not enough however, to do anything legal about it.

Given the circumstances, there is no way Caylee died by accident.
 
A_News_Junkie said:
ME TOO --------> Now where were we?

(Seat belts optional!)









whodunitwheel2.jpg



Spin the wheel!!!!!!
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South Park and the voices in my head. LOLOL
 
KarmaGet'em said:
Where to begin.

BBM0: You are depending on the claims of the people who would be next on the suspect list
I am depending on the evidence provide to me through the FL sunshine law.

BBM1: She behaved like someone who believed that her child was safe with the grandparents.
So, in the 31 days that she was out partying, how many times did she call grandma and grandpa and say "how is Caylee doing?". On the day that she stopped at home and GA was unexpectedly there, why did she not say "where's Caylee" instead of "here's your effing gas cans!"

BBM2: she is some sort of deranged psychopath
Ding ding ding ding ding!

BBM3: much simpler to just leave the kid with the grandparents
Except there is NO WAY she would let Cindy win. Maybe she is just a spiteful b****. (those were her words, not mine)

BBM4: actually nothing at all connecting Casey to Caylee's death
Except the decomposing body in the trunk of the car?

BBM5: But in real life people often do not behave like that
Wow. Just wow. Are you a mother?

BBM6: that the evidence simply was not there
I whole-heartedly disagree. And I did not form my opinion based on the media. It was based on the facts provided to the public compliments of the FL Sunshine Law.

BBM7: Toobin I think, who is a former prosecutor) thinking that the case was overcharged.
He might think the case was overcharged, but I believe he still thinks that Casey murdered her child. Was the death penalty too much? perhaps, but the jury was instructed to NOT think about the punishment phase in deliberations. Also, there were lesser charges available to them that they did not even consider. The case was overcharged only in the sense that the jury was not capable of doing their job as asked of them because their focus was clouded by the death penalty.

You are welcome to your opinion, as am I.

I still don't get it. :shakehead:
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Please don't forget that Caylee was supposedly with Casey, Zenaida, Juliette, and her little playmate in Tampa, after the horrible accident of course. Impossible for Caylee to have been with George and Cindy.
 
again again LE did not leak information to the media. It's called the "Sunshine Law". The media did request and obtain the records legally - public records.

can we take the "mistruths" in the book, in the order written and dissect?
 
FLmom777 said:
Jb: She created all of these stories of all these different people in her life that didn't exist, and there was one of the telling parts in the trial that I found fascinating about Casey's imaginary friends, that's what I like, that's what we called them, is Juliette Lewis. There was an incident that Cindy testified that one day that Casey and um um Cindy went to Universal Studios and waited in the parking lot for an hour and a half for Juliette Lewis to show up, and she never showed up.

Video of Cindy testifying about this.

Jb: Think about that for a second. That's the length of a movie, while you're sitting there waiting for someone to appear who you know doesn't exist. And what was the motive for that, murder? No, absolutely not. This happened close to a year before anything ever happened to Caylee. So all these things, this would have to be a remarkable, extraordinary, super, thought out process of two years of living in this uhh, fantasy world, is the only phrase that I can use, or there is something wrong, that this person knows how to shut out and compartmentalize what is going on in their life and what they're actually feeling and, and, go on and live like nothing ever happened, and, uh, you know, I, I just certainly couldn't put my finger on it. Of course we put forth the reason, uh, that, uh, Casey was telling us we thought might have been the reason. It's also based uh on some of the uhh conversations that I had with some of the mental health experts, that this is a poss, these are uh symptoms of someone who suffered significant trauma and abuse. Uh, and

Gvs: Let me ask you about that abuse. Now the allegation at trial was that George sexually abused her. Did you ever ask george about it out did you have, I realize that if abuse occurs it is done in private, but is there anything to corroborate that?
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Thanks Jose, because we know we can really rely on your interpretation and your word. You would never lie.

Please recall this statement:

"In “Imperfect Justice,” Ashton reveals comments that Anthony made to two mental-health experts, including accusing her father of killing her child.

But Baez said, “All of those things are sealed. I can’t even go anywhere near there and I won’t. I think I have a professional obligation to follow the rules.”

http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/en...now-when-casey-anthony-will-appear-on-tv.html

I also have this vague recollection of Jose whining about Jeff Ashton's book and saying that he would never be like JA and write insulting comments about the opposing attorney. I've searched for it and haven't found it yet. But do any of you other posters recall this? It sounds like, from what I'm reading here, that he has far surpassed JA's criticisms and actually sunk into real name calling.

Jose is only reinforcing my conclusion that his word is without worth. He continues to shock me much like passing a car wreck on the road. And I even resent that! I don't want him to have any power! Certainly do not want him to have any financial advantage ~ but I also resent that he can still make me angry.

I keep wondering what his answer would be if anyone asked him if Caylee had been his child, would his defense and post trial actions still be the same. Because this is still all about Caylee, right?
 
pdf of this not listed - looking for emails
http://www.wesh.com/Grandmother-Shares-Startling-Details-About-Casey-Anthony/-/11788876/13170440/-/item/1/-/4egivk/-/index.html
Cindy Anthony's mother interviewed: Investigators talked to Shirley Plesea, who is Cindy Anthony's mother on Aug. 21. Plesea said Cindy Anthony would give her life for Caylee. But Plesea agreed that Cindy Anthony changed her story during the investigation. Plesea said, "If she doesn't believe Casey then Caylee's dead. Honest to God that's my feeling." She also said about Casey, "I just wonder if she hated her mom more than she loved Caylee." Plesea said she got goose bumps when Cindy Anthony informed her Casey was in jail and Caylee had been missing for a month. Plesea said that, in June, Cindy Anthony made it clear that she wanted custody of Caylee. Then, she said, Casey Anthony promised day after day to bring Caylee home, but never did. Plesea said she thinks Casey Anthony did that to torment her mother. Pleasea said she believes the unemployed 22-year-old may have stolen as much as $45,000 from her parents, possibly by taking out credit cards in Cindy Anthony's name. The mounting bills forced Cindy Anthony to tap into her 401K, and nearly cost the Anthonys their home on Hopespring Drive. The grandmother said she first learned of Casey Anthony's thievery when she discovered she had stolen one of her checks and spent $54 to buy a cake and party favors for Caylee's 2nd birthday and then wrote another check from Plesea's account for $354 to pay her cell phone bill. Investigators talked with Plesea on the same day Casey Anthony bonded out of jail. Her grandmother told investigators she wasn't happy about that. In fact, to get to the truth, she suggested it might do Casey Anthony some good to get "beat up" behind bars. She said her last words to Casey Anthony were, "I love you, but I don't like you."
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Tugela said:
You are depending on the claims of the people who would be next on the suspect list if she did leave Caylee behind, so obviously their testimoney cannot be relied on.

Caylee's body was found in the vicinity of the home, all the items found with the body came from the home. The implication is that Caylee never left the home and likely died there. So, if people are saying that Casey left with Caylee, and they also happen to be the next people on the suspect list, don't you think that perhaps they might not be truthful?

Then you have to look at Caseys behaviour after she left. She behaved like someone who believed that her child was safe with the grandparents. If that is not the case, then, according to the scenario you have laid out, we would have to believe that she is some sort of deranged psychopath that was the model of a loving mother, then, spontaneously and for no reason, killed her daughter as she was driving off and behaved like nothing happened, when it would have been much simpler to just leave the kid with the grandparents. Moreover, you would have to believe that in the absence of any evidence to corroborate that.

I don't believe all that for one moment. I believe that she left her child in the care of the grandparents, something happened, and the stuff afterwards was the family circling the wagons to protect one of their own, and that one was NOT Casey.

There is actually nothing at all connecting Casey to Caylee's death other than the ever changing accounts of her parents.

This is the red letter item for me. It is what convinces me that Casey is not responsible for Caylee's death, there is a far more likely explanation of what happened that fits the known facts. Most of the people I know who followed the trial (who are not WSers btw) have similar questions. That is why the jury acquited her.

If you think about it, and are honest with yourself, that explanation makes the family's behaviour before and after the trial make a whole lot more sense.

The issue with Casey is that people have this romantic idea about motherhood and what they expect in terms of behaviour. But in real life people often do not behave like that. Casey is without question one of those people. That, coupled with (in my opinion) an attempt to help cover what actually happened, is what got her into trouble. And once the image as a child killer has grasped the public mind, feuled by conviction in the media, it is incredibly hard to let that go. Once that happened a trial with the direst of consequences became inevitable, no politician would dare resist that, even once it became clear that the evidence simply was not there.

I remember seeing lawyers on CNN (Toobin I think, who is a former prosecutor) thinking that the case was overcharged. You can see their comments on the video clip here.
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Your post is interesting, Regarding the part I bolded, are you talking about the night FCA was in Blockbuster's and Baby Caylee was in the truck of the car FCA drove to Blockbuster's ????
 
okiedokietoo said:
again again LE did not leak information to the media. It's called the "Sunshine Law". The media did request and obtain the records legally - public records.

can we take the "mistruths" in the book, in the order written and dissect?
Click to expand...


It's worse than that.
Baez claims in his book that it was the prosecution that leaked information to the press.
I'm going to post some "mistruths" here in a little while.
 
momtective said:
Please don't forget that Caylee was supposedly with Casey, Zenaida, Juliette, and her little playmate in Tampa, after the horrible accident of course. Impossible for Caylee to have been with George and Cindy.
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No one saw Caylee since June 16th, Casey acted "normal and happy" for the 31 days when she claimed Caylee was safe with the nanny (etc.), of course she told different lies to different people. In the 911 call Casey calmly lied about the details of the kidnapping, even that she had talked to Caylee on the phone that same day. Should I really conclude that Caylee was fine because Casey behaved like Caylee was fine with the nanny? Or should I conclude that Casey is a pathological liar and probably capable of even worse with the decomposition smell in her trunk that was backed by expert testimony and science.
 
I think the book plan started way way long ago. Remember the jailhouse videos where fca picked between mom and dad and picked GA as the one to see:
http://www.wftv.com/news/news/cindy-anthony-says-someone-hacked-her-email-accoun/nJdhX/
5:29 p.m. Monday, Dec. 1, 2008
Investigators also say the documents indicate that Casey might have been considering coming clean a couple of times. On the day she was indicted for murder she actually called her attorney from the sheriff's headquarters and hinted she might help investigators find Caylee. But once she talked to him she changed her mind. In August, she was about to meet with her father at the jail but once again it appears her attorney talked her out of it.
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Tugela said:
You are depending on the claims of the people who would be next on the suspect list if she did leave Caylee behind, so obviously their testimoney cannot be relied on.

Caylee's body was found in the vicinity of the home, all the items found with the body came from the home. The implication is that Caylee never left the home and likely died there. So, if people are saying that Casey left with Caylee, and they also happen to be the next people on the suspect list, don't you think that perhaps they might not be truthful?

Then you have to look at Caseys behaviour after she left. She behaved like someone who believed that her child was safe with the grandparents. If that is not the case, then, according to the scenario you have laid out, we would have to believe that she is some sort of deranged psychopath that was the model of a loving mother, then, spontaneously and for no reason, killed her daughter as she was driving off and behaved like nothing happened, when it would have been much simpler to just leave the kid with the grandparents. Moreover, you would have to believe that in the absence of any evidence to corroborate that.

I don't believe all that for one moment. I believe that she left her child in the care of the grandparents, something happened, and the stuff afterwards was the family circling the wagons to protect one of their own, and that one was NOT Casey.

There is actually nothing at all connecting Casey to Caylee's death other than the ever changing accounts of her parents.

This is the red letter item for me. It is what convinces me that Casey is not responsible for Caylee's death, there is a far more likely explanation of what happened that fits the known facts. Most of the people I know who followed the trial (who are not WSers btw) have similar questions. That is why the jury acquited her.

If you think about it, and are honest with yourself, that explanation makes the family's behaviour before and after the trial make a whole lot more sense.

The issue with Casey is that people have this romantic idea about motherhood and what they expect in terms of behaviour. But in real life people often do not behave like that. Casey is without question one of those people. That, coupled with (in my opinion) an attempt to help cover what actually happened, is what got her into trouble. And once the image as a child killer has grasped the public mind, feuled by conviction in the media, it is incredibly hard to let that go. Once that happened a trial with the direst of consequences became inevitable, no politician would dare resist that, even once it became clear that the evidence simply was not there.

I remember seeing lawyers on CNN (Toobin I think, who is a former prosecutor) thinking that the case was overcharged. You can see their comments on the video clip here.
Click to expand...

I will quote Mark NeJame's astute Twitter posts- he says it so succinctly.

"If you have baby die by accident u r grief-stricken.
If death planned, you go to Blockbuster that nite w/ boyfriend.
I left out the screwin' stealin' boozin' and tattooin' part- only 140 characters".

I will add the evidence of a decomposing body in her car was one of the most convincing FACTS , but NONE of her statements or activities indicate anything less than a pathological liar who got caught in too many lies after she got rid of her unwanted child.
 
Baily said:
I'm reading the book online (for FREE on Amazon) and JB claims that CA called YM while he was at Universal with IT and told him about the pool ladder being left up on the day Caylee disappeared. Anyone ever hear this one before?
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Does anyony have the original statement from Cindy about the pool ladder.
I don't remember her saying that the pool ladder was up on June 16th?
 
ZsaZsa said:
I will quote Mark NeJame's astute Twitter posts- he says it so succinctly.

"If you have baby die by accident u r grief-stricken.
If death planned, you go to Blockbuster that nite w/ boyfriend.
I left out the screwin' stealin' boozin' and tattooin' part- only 140 characters".

I will add the evidence of a decomposing body in her car was one of the most convincing FACTS , but NONE of her statements or activities indicate anything less than a pathological liar who got caught in too many lies after she got rid of her unwanted child.
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And Baez is claiming in his book that Cindy fired NeJame because NeJame was pressuring them to fire Baez, and NeJame wanted to be KC's defense attorney.

What's the date of that twitter?
 
Who would have thought that we would be back to reading docs again , because we can't trust what an attorney is stating in his book.
 
yeah thats what i am wondering too..


also did any of cindys coworkers testify and if they did .. what date did they give for the ladder thing??
 
FLmom777 said:
Who would have thought that we would be back to reading docs again , because we can't trust what an attorney is stating in his book.
Click to expand...

And who would have thunk that the South Park connections would just now have been caught?
 
ok.. can anyone help me figure out if there is anywhere that has the transcripts of the early interviews of like cindy and george by the police???
 
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