Something that has been bugging me... (WARNING: GRAPHIC CONTENT)

[Linda7NJ]

Are you suggesting that 9 year old Burke created that Garrote?

That's what I typed.
?

 

[Linda7NJ]

Thank you for making an excellent point that I had not previously considered. I agree that this points to the garrote having been created prior to the head bash and points to its use for a purpose other than murder. The fact that it was what killed JB does not mean it was created for that purpose. No one is going to create the garrote between the time of the head bash and the time it was used to kill JB. It existed before.

Your comments lead me to believe you think the garrote was some sort of sophisticated device, I assure you...it was not. It was fashioned right there at the time and on her neck.

 

[Anyhoo]

Your comments lead me to believe you think the garrote was some sort of sophisticated device, I assure you...it was not. It was fashioned right there at the time and on her neck.

I would not know how to create something like that as a middle aged man, much less at nine, but assuming he did, when do you think he made it? And why? That would be one sophisticated nine year old.

 

[Chris_Texas]

I get your point. I think the reason it troubles me is that it does not fit RDI, which I want to accept. This points to non RDI. I know people will disagree with me on this. I do not think this is pure staging.

I do not think it does necessarily point to non-RDI. Rather, it only points to it not being done on the spur of the moment that evening. In my opinion of course.

For the record, I think the non-RDI theories I have heard are all pretty far fetched and ignore the evidence in the case.

 

[Linda7NJ]

I would not know how to create something like that as a middle aged man, much less at nine, but assuming he did, when do you think he made it? And why? That would be one sophisticated nine year old.

I think whoever made it, did so, as JonBenet lay there unconscious from the head bash.

My son loved rope, sticks, duct tape and tying knots at that age...add in some big empty boxes and he would entertain himself for days!

 

[Chris_Texas]

Your comments lead me to believe you think the garrote was some sort of sophisticated device, I assure you...it was not. It was fashioned right there at the time and on her neck.

That's quite a nice knot there to be tying onto the neck of a dying child. Do you have a link that breaks down the knot and how the hair is caught in there?

 

[Anyhoo]

I think whoever made it, did so, as JonBenet lay there unconscious from the head bash.

My son loved rope, sticks, duct tape and tying knots at that age...add in some big empty boxes and he would entertain himself for days!

I guess you did not agree with the op on this thread. So your contention is BR created the garrote after the head bash to finish off his sister by strangulation after he had bashed her in the head? If so, when did the parents find out about it?

 

[Chris_Texas]

Chris_Texas,
Oh my and how authorative are opinions? The wine-cellar is a staged crime-scene period.

Please review the forensic evidence.

Respectfully, I don't have a clue what you are saying. Of course things in the wine cellar are "staged" to some degree or other. That's not really the question. Rather, I think we have to ask: what do we see that's real (meaning it occured as we now see it), what is fake or modified by the killer, and what do both of these things mean? Both the real and false tell us something.

 

[Chris_Texas]

I guess you did not agree with the op on this thread. So your contention is BR created the garrote after the head bash to finish off his sister by strangulation after he had bashed her in the head? If so, when did the parents find out about it?

That's a very good question.

 

[Linda7NJ]

That's quite a nice knot there to be tying onto the neck of a dying child. Do you have a link that breaks down the knot and how the hair is caught in there?

Do a search here. It's been done to death.

 

[Linda7NJ]

I guess you did not agree with the op on this thread. So your contention is BR created the garrote after the head bash to finish off his sister by strangulation after he had bashed her in the head? If so, when did the parents find out about it?

No, I don't believe it was made ahead of time. The evidence doesn't support it.

I am a Ramsey did it.

I believe the staging consisted of cleaning her up, changing her, covering her up and the wrist "restraints" and the note. I believe Pasty did those things.

I have a theory for each Ramsey....I favor Burke/ Patsy and Patsy only Patsy ....

John IMO came in later....

 

[Chris_Texas]

I think whoever made it, did so, as JonBenet lay there unconscious from the head bash.

My son loved rope, sticks, duct tape and tying knots at that age...add in some big empty boxes and he would entertain himself for days!

So I am clear...

You think Burke molested her, bashed her, then strangled her after crafting this noose thing (rather than bashing her a few more times because why not). Then, when his parents found out, rather than the adults calling their lawyer and the police, they instead concocted an elaborate cover up complete with ransom notes and wiping and redressing the body...

But they left Burke's home-made potentially evidence loaded noose in place...

And then send him off to a friend's house where he might easily confess to his crime and send his entire family off to prison. Honestly that seems a bit far fetched to me.

 

[Anyhoo]

No, I don't believe it was made ahead of time. The evidence doesn't support it.

I am a Ramsey did it.

I believe the staging consisted of cleaning her up, changing her, covering her up and the wrist "restraints" and the note. I believe Pasty did those things.

I have a theory for each Ramsey....I favor Burke/ Patsy and Patsy only Patsy ....

John IMO came in later....

You make 9 year old BR into a cold blooded calculating murderer. I would consider a child that would do that to be a psychopath. But I can see PR going to incredible lengths to protect her son.

 

[Nova]

This does trouble me. I do not believe the creation and use of the garrot to be pure staging. One might theorize that the garrot was used to kill JB to put a dying child out of her misery and in that case it might be seen as an act of mercy. But something does not feel right about that. I sense there is something more to it that does not fit. I do not know how it makes sense but the garrot and the head bash together seem to point to premeditated murder of JB.

I don't think we can prove anything definitive, but my gut reaction is that a parent who was "merely" euthanizing his/her own child would use some gentler method than a garrote. (As you or someone suggested, a hand or pillow over the nose and mouth would have sufficed.)

I suspect the device (like the RN) was somebody improvising what she imagined a "small foreign faction" might do.

Was it time-consuming and unnecessary? Certainly. But so was the RN.

I've always thought the key to thinking about this case is to think of one or two intelligent-but-criminally-inexperienced parent(s) who had plenty-of-but-not-unlimited time to stage the cover-up.

 

[Linda7NJ]

So I am clear...

You think Burke molested her, bashed her, then strangled her after crafting this noose thing (rather than bashing her a few more times because why not). Then, when his parents found out, rather than the adults calling their lawyer and the police, they instead concocted an elaborate cover up complete with ransom notes and wiping and redressing the body...

But they left Burke's home-made potentially evidence loaded noose in place...

And then send him off to a friend's house where he might easily confess to his crime and send his entire family off to prison. Honestly that seems a bit far fetched to me.

It's certainly possible.

I believe The Ramsey's knew about the abuse and failed to protect her.
Burke bashed her in the face before with a golf club
The Ramsey's had books that would lead me to believe one of their children had serious problems
Burke was extremely unattached to the people in his family. Especially his sister. Didn't seem to miss her at all. Why would he? His life certainly improved with her out of the way.
We have feces
We have chronic sexual abuse that IMO the stager was aware of.
The Ramsey's knew if he would confess or not! maybe he the type that would NEVER confess. Maybe that was a pattern for him?

We don't know who the Ramsey's called.

Someone did all of those things and I am certain it wasn't an intruder.

 

[Venom]

The more I think about it, it was a gamble for the R's to send BR to the W's or keep him at the house. Either way he could have let something slip. Maybe they thought he'd be better to keep quiet at the W's, away from all the police. Where as if he stayed home, there would be a better chance of him having to talk to the police.

 

[Anyhoo]

I don't think we can prove anything definitive, but my gut reaction is that a parent who was "merely" euthanizing his/her own child would use some gentler method than a garrote. (As you or someone suggested, a hand or pillow over the nose and mouth would have sufficed.)

I suspect the device (like the RN) was somebody improvising what she imagined a "small foreign faction" might do.

Was it time-consuming and unnecessary? Certainly. But so was the RN.

I've always thought the key to thinking about this case is to think of one or two intelligent-but-criminally-inexperienced parent(s) who had plenty-of-but-not-unlimited time to stage the cover-up.

I do not believe PR would know how to create the garrote. I think only JR and possibly BR would know how to make that. The thought of creating that would not even enter into someone's head unless they already knew how to make it. That excludes PR IMO.

 

[Nova]

So PR buys the materials for her husband to create a garrot so he can sexually abuse their daughter with it? She buys the materials well advance of the murder indicating she is preparing for the murder? There is no way that makes any sense.

I don't mean to pick on you (and welcome to WS). You're just bringing up some common ideas about the case.

I have a question about the EA theory: on a fair-skinned child like JBR, how could anyone have planned to torture her with a garrote without fearing they would leave tell-tale marks?

My family's coloring is similar to that of the Rs and, unless we are very well tanned, we show a record of the most casual contacts. I can leave a visible (and painless) bruise clutching my own arm.

Of course, I can't begin to fathom the thinking of someone who would garrote a child for sexual pleasure; and perhaps the garrote was making its "debut" on the night JBR died. But I doubt anyone could have tightened that cord tight enough to cut off JBR's wind without also leaving an obvious (and alarming) bruise.

***

ETA I've now read Linda's posts. I can believe 9-year-old BR might not think ahead to what marks his (if it was his) garrote would leave. But I have trouble believing JR wouldn't know better.

 

[Linda7NJ]

The more I think about it, it was a gamble for the R's to send BR to the W's or keep him at the house. Either way he could have let something slip. Maybe they thought he'd be better to keep quiet at the W's, away from all the police. Where as if he stayed home, there would be a better chance of him having to talk to the police.

He wouldn't even admit he wet the bed.

IMO he was one of those kids you could catch with chocolate all over his face & his hand in the cookie jar and he'd still deny he ate it.

 

[Linda7NJ]

I don't mean to pick on you (and welcome to WS). You're just bringing up some common ideas about the case.

I have a question about the EA theory: on a fair-skinned child like JBR, how could anyone have planned to torture her with a garrote without fearing they would leave tell-tale marks?

My family's coloring is similar to that of the Rs and, unless we are very well tanned, we show a record of the most casual contacts. I can leave a visible (and painless) bruise clutching my own arm.

Of course, I can't begin to fathom the thinking of someone who would garrote a child for sexual pleasure; and perhaps the garrote was making its "debut" on the night JBR died. But I doubt anyone could have tightened that cord tight enough to cut off JBR's wind without also leaving an obvious (and alarming) bruise.

IMO the EA theory doesn't hold water.