Southeast Louisiana Evacuation Plan

[BirdieBoo]

Oh, good. You have a car. I assume it wasn't boosted?

Not trying to be a mean from hell but the situation isn't what you would call hope.No choice....and I mean no choice if you live in Desire.Can you even conceive this level of poverty?

Ummm, I was referring to kgeaux post which said that people had cars but nowhere to go. Having a car is a huge asset for evacuation, I don't really understand how having a car but noplace to go would preclude evacuation in a life or death emergency. And yes, I CAN conceive of the level of poverty you mention. I have been to third world countries where people live in shacks I wouldn't house a dog in. So if you're not trying to be a _____ _____ from ---- Please note the context of my post. I understand you're upset but please don't take it out on me. Thanks

 

[concernedperson]

Ummm, I was referring to kgeaux post which said that people had cars but nowhere to go. Having a car is a huge asset for evacuation, I don't really understand how having a car but noplace to go would preclude evacuation in a life or death emergency. And yes, I CAN conceive of the level of poverty you mention. I have been to third world countries where people live in shacks I wouldn't house a dog in. So if you're not trying to be a _____ _____ from ---- Please note the context of my post. I understand you're upset but please don't take it out on me. Thanks

I am sorry. I am not that kind of person. I really am not. I just feel it personally. I should shut up because my pain isn't reality.

 

[BirdieBoo]

Its OK CP. I understand. Most everyone is quite upset and trying to understand how this could happen, here in the USA where we are supposed to
be able to pull ourselves up by our bootstraps at a moment's notice, which I'm afraid isn't going to happen for a very many people this time

 

[Pepper]

Other things that weren't done or didn't follow the plan:

The plan calls for staging areas to pick up people and move them to safety in host parishes. This was not done. Any people who were picked up were sent to shelters of last resort, like the Super Dome. I'm not sure why, except that I believe calling for a mandatory evacuation a mere 20 hours before expected landfall is cutting it a little close.

The school bus thing obviously went terribly wrong. I have *heard* but not seen in print, that the drivers evacuated, so busses were available, but no one there to drive and pick up the people.

I heard Nagin say that today too, but gimme a break, how hard would it be to find drivers? Put the word out. Ask for volunteers. One guy "stole" a bus to transport some people out of there. He wasn't an employed bus driver. That is a pretty lame excuse IMHO. Besides, remember, Nagin et al had DAYS to work the plan before Monday morning.

 

[Toby]

People tend to think their home will protect them from any and all circumstances. Until you have been through something which takes that comfortable feeling away, you may not understand the full power of nature.

Some of the evacuees surely suffered from this thought

 

[BirdieBoo]

People tend to think their home will protect them from any and all circumstances. Until you have been through something which takes that comfortable feeling away, you may not understand the full power of nature.

Some of the evacuees surely suffered from this thought

Yes I see what you mean Toby. Thanks for sharing this point of view with me.

I posted on the other thread about being evacuated when the Teton Dam broke, which left an important impression on me at a young age, and so I have always had the understanding of nature's wrath since I was just a small child.

 

[Tom'sGirl]

I heard Nagin say that today too, but gimme a break, how hard would it be to find drivers? Put the word out. Ask for volunteers. One guy "stole" a bus to transport some people out of there. He wasn't an employed bus driver. That is a pretty lame excuse IMHO. Besides, remember, Nagin et al had DAYS to work the plan before Monday morning.

SNIP re: Amtrack

MR. RUSSERT: Amtrak said they offered to remove people from the city of New Orleans on Saturday night and that the city of New Orleans declined.

MAYOR NAGIN: I don't know where that's coming from. Amtrak never contacted me to make that offer. As a matter of fact, we checked the Amtrak lines for availability, and every available train was booked, as far as the report that I got, through September. So I'd like to see that report.

MR. RUSSERT: They said they were moving equipment out of New Orleans in order to protect it and offered to take evacuees with them.

MAYOR NAGIN: I have never gotten that call, Tim, and I would love to have had that call. But it never happened.

 

[Tom'sGirl]

The reality is it would take at a minimum 72 hours of around the clock bus's trains etc to evacuate a region the size of the New Orleans area. The 24 hour Mandatory evacuation notice rendered it impossible to evacuate new Orleans.

I had posted this to the wrong poster, I meant it in reply to tybee......sorry!

If anyone missed Meet the Press here are some Snips and the link to transcript:
SNIP re: Buses

MR. RUSSERT: Many people point, Mr. Mayor, that on Friday before the hurricane, President Bush declared an impending disaster. And The Houston Chronicle wrote it this way. "[Mayor Nagin's] mandatory evacuation order was issued 20 hours before the storm struck the Louisiana coast, less than half the time researchers determined would be needed to get everyone out. City officials had 550 municipal buses and hundreds of additional school buses at their disposal but made no plans to use them to get people out of New Orleans before the storm, said Chester Wilmot, a civil engineering professor at Louisiana State University and an expert in transportation planning, who helped the city put together its evacuation plan." And we've all see this photograph of these submerged school buses. Why did you not declare, order, a mandatory evacuation on Friday, when the president declared an emergency, and have utilized those buses to get people out?

MAYOR NAGIN: You know, Tim, that's one of the things that will be debated. There has never been a catastrophe in the history of New Orleans like this. There has never been any Category 5 storm of this magnitude that has hit New Orleans directly. We did the things that we thought were best based upon the information that we had. Sure, here was lots of buses out there. But guess what? You can't find drivers that would stay behind with a Category 5 hurricane, you know, pending down on New Orleans. We barely got enough drivers to move people on Sunday, or Saturday and Sunday, to move them to the Superdome. We barely had enough drivers for that. So sure, we had the assets, but the drivers just weren't available.

MR. RUSSERT: But, Mr. Mayor, if you read the city of New Orleans' comprehensive emergency plan-- and I've read it and I'll show it to you and our viewers--it says very clearly, "Conduct of an actual evacuation will be the responsibility of the mayor of New Orleans. The city of New Orleans will utilize all available resources to quickly and safely evacuate threatened areas. Special arrangements will be made to evacuate persons unable to transport themselves or who require specific life-saving assistance. Additional personnel will be recruited to assist in evacuation procedure as needed. Approximately 100,000 citizens of New Orleans do not have means of personal transportation."

It was your responsibility. Where was the planning? Where was the preparation? Where was the execution?


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9240461/

 

[Pepper]

Let me clarify, by "a safe place", I meant a place away from the immediate crisis.

I do understand that many people do not have funds to stay in hotels, but to me, I would think it would be better to be sleeping in my car at a wal mart parking lot or some such... than living in sewage, amongst rapists, snipers, looters and other mayhem, or worse, dead.

Hi Birdie,

That is my question too. I am wondering if anyone like the mayor or aldermen or PD went into those neighborhoods with bullhorns telling those people that they might die if they didn't get out of there?

 

[Pepper]

The reality is it would take at a minimum 72 hours of around the clock bus's trains etc to evacuate a region the size of the New Orleans area. The 24 hour Mandatory evacuation notice rendered it impossible to evacuate new Orleans.

Yes, but they had more than 72 hours notice that the story would be a Cat 4-5 and headed straight for N.O. So they had PLENTY of time to issue that Mandatory evacuation notice, (which the Hurricane Center asked Nagin to declare) which the mayor didn't issue until a mere 12 hrs. prior to landfall.

The CNN program that aired tonight spelled all that out. It was an abysmal failure on the part of state and local officials, to protect these people from the flooding. There is still plenty of blame for FEMA and nearly everyone else. But the fact remains is it was the mayor first and the governor section who had the duty and obligation to protect these people AHEAD of the storm hitting land. After the fact FEMA should have been more responsive.

 

[kgeaux]

Hi Birdie,

That is my question too. I am wondering if anyone like the mayor or aldermen or PD went into those neighborhoods with bullhorns telling those people that they might die if they didn't get out of there?

Busses were sent to staging points--like a centralized location--to pick people up and take them to the shelter of last resort, the Super Dome. This was done after the mandatory evacuation was declared, 20 or so hours before the storm hit. The plan also states that all this stops before the gale force winds hit, so I'm not sure how many hours of this type of evacuation went on.

The state emergency operations plan calls for earlier busses to pick people up and take them to shelters in non emergency parishes. I read this to mean that shelters in parishes like Lafayette Parish should have been opened prior to the storm, and busses should have been picking people up and bringing them to these shelters. As the storm continues to get closer, driving becomes more hazardous, and so these long trips would cease, then the busses would bring people to emergency shelters in the affected parishes.

No shelters in non emergency parishes were opened prior to the storm, no busses took anyone out of town to these closed shelters prior to the storm.

Something went wrong. Terribly wrong.

 

[Pepper]

Ummm, I was referring to kgeaux post which said that people had cars but nowhere to go. Having a car is a huge asset for evacuation, I don't really understand how having a car but noplace to go would preclude evacuation in a life or death emergency. And yes, I CAN conceive of the level of poverty you mention. I have been to third world countries where people live in shacks I wouldn't house a dog in. So if you're not trying to be a _____ _____ from ---- Please note the context of my post. I understand you're upset but please don't take it out on me. Thanks

I certainly understand that there wre many people who didn't own cars. But I saw hundreds of submerged cars and other vehicles on the streets of NO in every neighborhood. Now maybe they were out of gas or broken and didn't run.........can't say about that.

 

[BirdieBoo]

Well, if they are anything like me & my hubby, we have 3 cars and 2 people to drive them. And we might only take one car in an evacuation, because we would not want to be separated. So that would leave 2 of ours on the street.

 

[tybee204]

We have 3 cars and take one. It is to hard to get gas to fill more then one vehicle during evacuation.

 

[less0305]

Not only did the Mayor of N.O. not use his evacuation plan to get people to other shelters in LA, but the Governor did not use her resources and Governor's Contact to accept help and resources from other Governor's in the region. Florida was ready willing and able - and had the experience - but were rebuffed at the state level - BEFORE the hurricane.

 

[DEPUTYDAWG]

I heard Nagin say that today too, but gimme a break, how hard would it be to find drivers? Put the word out. Ask for volunteers. One guy "stole" a bus to transport some people out of there. He wasn't an employed bus driver. That is a pretty lame excuse IMHO. Besides, remember, Nagin et al had DAYS to work the plan before Monday morning.

Excellent point, Pepper. If they had followed their own "plan," the buses would have been put into action prior to just 24 hours. :banghead: But alas, they did not follow their own plan.

 

[DEPUTYDAWG]

Busses were sent to staging points--like a centralized location--to pick people up and take them to the shelter of last resort, the Super Dome. This was done after the mandatory evacuation was declared, 20 or so hours before the storm hit. The plan also states that all this stops before the gale force winds hit, so I'm not sure how many hours of this type of evacuation went on.

The state emergency operations plan calls for earlier busses to pick people up and take them to shelters in non emergency parishes. I read this to mean that shelters in parishes like Lafayette Parish should have been opened prior to the storm, and busses should have been picking people up and bringing them to these shelters. As the storm continues to get closer, driving becomes more hazardous, and so these long trips would cease, then the busses would bring people to emergency shelters in the affected parishes.

No shelters in non emergency parishes were opened prior to the storm, no busses took anyone out of town to these closed shelters prior to the storm.

Something went wrong. Terribly wrong.

I read the plan, as well, regarding High Risk Parishes, and "Host Parishes," which is where the shelters SHOULD HAVE been opened. What a tragedy that the communications from the High Risk Parish to the outside "host parishes" just didn't take place as it should have. Unbelievable.

And, it appears something went terribly wrong with the "plan" and the responsibilities for the evacuations for the nursing homes, group homes, and I guess hospitals. Earlier than 24 hrs, they each had a "plan" on file; so why didn't they follow their own plans to get their patients, who are dependent upon them (the facilities) out of there? This scares the he** out of me - families had entrusted the staffs to take care of their loved ones - and yet so many facilities gambled, and lost. (Maybe even most followed their plans, and we only heard of the few that gambled, and lost.)

IMO

 

[SewingDeb]

Having a car but nowhere to go means that people do not really understand the meaning of evacuating. If you have a car but nowhere to go, you need to go away from the area and find a safe place away from the area . There is evacuating, and then there is having a family evacuation plan. The two are not mutually exclusive. I'm not blaming the people who didn't evacuate, I am wondering how the evacuation order was understood by them.

Not having a plan should not keep people from evacuating when their lives are in danger, I wonder how many of the people who had a car but nowhere to go really understood that their very lives were in danger?

Exactly. A car is a place to go. Drive it as far away as possible and stay in it while seeking help.