Steven Avery: Guilty of Teresa Halbach's Murder?

[ElleElle]

NOTE: Everything is based soley off the documentary series. I have yet to "dig in" to any of the provided resources.

At the moment, I lean towards NOT GUILTY. (And in any fair trial, he would have been found not guilty because there's not enough evidence to convict him. Hardly anything but circumstantial evidence, if that! And like the excused juror stated, the majority voted NOT GUILTY before he left to attend to a family emergency and he's still stunned/disturbed by the outcome of it all. And this was not a reaction from someone who saw the docu series, obviously.. being IN it, for those who say that anyone who thinks he's not guilty is basing it off just the docu series. A JUROR thought, with all the evidence presented, SA was not guilty. 7 of them, actually.)

I don't believe that TH was murdered or burned on the Avery property. (If she was murdered in the bedroom, the mattress would have been soaked. Brendan, of course, made all that up. Then, it's suggested that it happened in the garage. Ah, that messy garage that people seem not to be able to understand or conveniently glance over: would have been IMPOSSIBLE to scrub down the fine blood splatter that would have resulted from gunshots. But they didn't find her blood there did they? Nope. They found SA's blood though... which is not shocking. Look at all the sharp rusty junk in there! You work in a junkyard, you're gonna cut yourself! It goes with the territory.

I think LE/gov people who hated him SO much were staking out his place for some time. They saw that she was there taking photos for him like she'd done before and that later that day SA had a fire pit going. A light goes off in their heads: they thought up this horrific scheme to make sure they get that SOB SA once and for all! (Money is the root of all evil. LE/gov had more of a motive that SA did! We're talking SA suing for MILLIONS. That's BIG MONEY. People have done a lot worse for a lot less.)
Yes, considering their hatred for the Averys, I wouldn't put any of this past them.

An alternative is that someone she knew killed her and who better to be the scapegoat? Yup, the Averys of course! (How the ex-bf* acted set off all sorts of alarm bells for me when being interviewed. His nervousness, non-answers, etc. OK, maybe he's just a nervous person. *shrugs* Also, I would have liked to see the MALE roommate in the series. What was his deal? And it's so telling how there seemed to be practically no suspicion or questioning of the standard usual suspects: lovers, exs, roommates, friends, family, etc.) But after all this time, if it did happen else where, it just gave the guilty party more time to clean up.

*Can someone clear this up for me: I saw two males in the courtroom audience. Her brother and a guy who looks just like him. Twins? That wasn't her ex-bf was it? And if not, how could he act concerned enough to get together a search party and then not show up for the trial??? ALSO, he gives TH's cousin the only digital camera knowing she would be searching the car lot.... almost as if he knew SHE would be the one to find the vehicle. Am I the only one who's suspicious of this!?

You know who else didn't sit well with me? Scott Tadych, who was dating SA's sister Barb. His "he got what's comin' to him" statement was odd. Why? What did Scott have against him? Also, Tadych has a history of violence towards women. He put himself there on that day. AND it was Barb's van TH was coming to photograph. (Very interesting article...more possible suspects)

Also, I don't recall anyone saying they heard gunshots. Hmmm. The Avery's lived close together. SA shoots TH and no one's gonna hear it? OK, if you say so...

I don't believe SA is stupid. Or not THAT stupid. Maybe growing up, he wasn't the brightest bulb but I think being wrongfully imprisoned for 18 years has made him wiser. I see no true motive for him to commit this crime. He was constantly warned, and I'm sure he agreed, that LE was NOT done with him... so do you really think, with the possibility of being surveilled ay any time, he would have murdered this woman, left her burned up remains scattered about his property AND left her easily identifiable car, barely concealed, on his lot? (He had a car crusher. Why not use that??) C'mon, folks! 18 years if a long time to have stolen from you. You really think he would have risked the rest of his natural life to murder a woman for no apparent reason? Sure, maybe he just got cocky being released and all.

Note: I binge watched the entire season 1 yesterday. Actually restarted my membership just so I could watch this.

I really think there should be a new trial. I think his lawyers were intelligent and did a great job but at nearly every turn, there seemed to be a bias against the defense on the part of the judge.
And like one of his lawyers said in the end, I actually hope I'm wrong and that he is guilty because the thought of an innocent man having this happen to him again, and this time for life with no possibility of parole, makes me sick.

And as for Brendan... wow. Looking at his case... I think a lot of lawyers and LE should be held legally accountable for their manipulation of a boy who clearly was not very smart and easily manipulated. They took advantage of him. Sad, really.

--------------------
But THEN on the flip side, there's what wasn't in the documentary series. Like this. But is Jodi believable? She's now claiming on TMZ that SA "tied me to the bed too." Too? I feel that was a made up story from the start but...alright.

And he burned a cat alive?! WTH... ok, maybe this is his karma....

What a mess, all this.... My mind may be swayed looking at more evidence that was left out of the docu series.. but these are my immediate reactions.

Great post! I binged watched all 10 episodes as well. What you wrote is exactly how I feel.

I never understood why they did not investigate anyone else? Why? Because "he was the last one to see her"; which I call BS in this case.

We don't know he was the last one to see her. Also, if he did *67 on his calls to her that morning, I want to see the phone records. Maybe he did that with alot of his calls. She knew where she was going when she went there, so what is he hiding?

 

[Madeleine74]

Even more reason to believe Steven might be selfish ... I would've though that the $400,000 received in the civil settlement could have been used for Brendan's defense as well. Although I might be off on the costs ...

Avery was arrested in Nov of 2005. Dassey was arrested in March of 2006. Lawyers have a way of eating up every last dime. You have to know they weren't charging only $40 an hour. I'm sure they were making good money, while that money lasted.

 

[ElleElle]

Avery was arrested in Nov of 2005. Dassey was arrested in March of 2006. Lawyers have a way of eating up every last dime. You have to know they weren't charging only $40 an hour. I'm sure they were making good money, while that money lasted.

Even if BD had high-priced Chicago? lawyers, he never would of one won because he admitted being an accomplice.

 

[Madeleine74]

Even if BD had high-priced Chicago? lawyers, he never would of one won because he admitted being an accomplice.

That's probably true. SA, with his very qualified, seasoned, and committed defense team, still was convicted. And that jury did hear a defense case in which alleged tampering, possible planting, and conspiracy was introduced during cross examination of state witnesses. Yet that jury still voted unanimously to convict.

 

[Murtagh21]

The burden of proof has now shifted to Steven Avery. He has to present "new evidence" that is strong enough to reach a level where no reasonable fact finder and/or juror would have convicted Avery of murder. That is a daunting task and speaks to Avery's inability to put a dent in the prosecution's case. The prosecution's case was impressive enough to convince a jury, a district court judge, 3 circuit court judges, and the Wisconsin Supreme Court that Steven Avery is guilty of murdering Teresa Halbach.

If Avery wants to continue to charge law enforcement with malfeasance, provide concrete proof of that claim. If Avery wants to claim that his two brothers were the "real" murderers, provide tangible evidence of their involvement. Avery's task becomes even more daunting when you include logic into the legal equation. Who requested that Halbach photograph a vehicle on the Avery compound? Who called Halbach's place of business not once, but twice using Star 67? Who called Halbach's place of business a third time AFTER Halbach was murdered and asked why she didn't show up for the photography session? Wasn't that caller the SAME person who admitted to local reporters AND Nancy Grace that Halbach DID show up for the photography session?

In essence, Avery's pathetic attempt at creating an alibi came back to haunt him as did his decision not to crush Halbach's vehicle. This latter decision to remove the license plates, lock the vehicle, and cover it with yard debris resulted in investigators recovering his DNA from under the hood, his blood in 6 places inside the vehicle, and Halbach's DNA in the form of a direct contact blood stain matching the morphology of human hair. As the story progresses, the holes in the Avery Is A Tortured Innocent narrative become larger and larger.

Avery sets a huge fire in his backyard which lasts for several hours. Tires are found entwined with Halbach's bones in that SAME fire pit and a tire is found in a burn barrel located 20 feet from Avery's front door. Why are tires located in two separate locations? Tires are an accelerant and assist in the burning of Halbach's body, her digital camera, cellphone, and palm pilot. Five rivets from Halbach's pants and the tool used to mutilate her body were also found in the fire pit. It's also important to note that Avery had a history of deviant behavior which includes setting the family cat on fire, two women accusing Avery of raping them in 2004, and recent allegations by his ex-fiancé that he beat her.

IMO, the evidence clearly demonstrates that Steven Avery murdered Teresa Halbach on 10/31/05. This includes his attempts to lure Halbach to his property; his attempts at creating an alibi; the inculpatory Touch and Nuclear DNA evidence; the victim's remains found in his backyard; the ballistics match; the victim's personal belongings found in a burn barrel on his property; and the victim's car being found on his property.

 

[Tawny]

Where is the information on where the "for sale" cars are kept on the property?

Logic would consider that if we believe the key to that vehicle was planted by those officers, then those officers DID have access to the inside of that LOCKED vehicle

 

[dexter75]

Those of us that think others may have did it, have stated the how, along with evidence ( or lack of ) many, many times throughout various posts here =)

I'll pose the opposite question: for those who believe he is innocent, how do you believe Teresa ended up dead and burned on his property? That question specifically.

 

[dexter75]

TBH, I've answered the door in a towel before. In a huge hurry and didn't want to miss a package. Not smart, or flattering, I know this.
At the time, I was rushed and didn't really care.
Actually twice, now that I think about it.
Second time, daughters playmates GRANDPA was dropping her off and I had NO clue he was coming inside. I had JUST gotten out of the shower, oops.
Stuff happens, I suppose.

Link to handcuffs and leg irons thread

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=298706

TH told a friend about the towel story. The friend said she wasn't really rattled by it. Thought it was creepy, but kind of laughed it off with an "Eewww". I'll look for the link.

 

[ElleElle]

SUSTAINED: Thanks for clarifying the context of the 4:35 call. Speaking of context, the FACT that the vehicle that Avery wanted to sell remained in the SAME location for 5 days, is just a small piece of a much larger puzzle. Again, Avery is attempting to use a photograph placed in Auto Trader magazine as a way to sell that vehicle, yet he doesn't move that vehicle to the appropriate location? It is similar to his moving Halbach's vehicle a stone's throw away from the crusher, yet he ultimately decides to take the plates off the car, lock the vehicle, and cover it up with yard debris.

The Netflix documentary makes a concerted effort to "prove" that Avery's blood was planted in 6 locations inside Halbach's vehicle. They give a half-hearted effort in playing fair by including the testimony of Deputy O'Conner and Detective Remiker in regards to protecting the scene where Halbach's vehicle was found. What the audience is unaware of is that prior to the forensic team arriving at the Avery compound, FOUR officers were in charge of protecting that particular crime scene.

In addition to O'Conner and Remiker, Sergeant Orth and Lieutenant Hermann guarded Halbach's vehicle. To a man, they testified that NO person entered Halbach's vehicle prior to the Calumet County forensic team arriving at the scene. The vehicle was locked when Pam Sturm and her daughter Nikole first discovered the vehicle and Halbach's key had not yet been discovered.

The LOCKED vehicle is then transported to a garage in Madison, photographs are taken of the outside of the vehicle on the 6th, and then the forensic team has to open the vehicle without the use of a key in order to photograph the inside of the car on the 7th. Logic and chain of custody proves that no rogue officer or officers had access to the inside of that LOCKED vehicle PRIOR to the discovery of Avery's blood inside that vehicle.

So, they used the spare key to UNLOCK the RAV4, then planted it in SA's room?

Just jumping off your post.

 

[Murtagh21]

IMO, all of the attempts to poke holes in concrete chain of custody documentation/testimony lack merit, and are merely speculation presented as fact. The burden is now on Steven Avery to prove these claims. Avery nor his advocates have come close to proving their mythical conspiracy narratives. Even their strongest "proof" of a conspiracy lacks any tangible corroboration. The key found in Avery's trailer contains Avery's Touch DNA rather than a DNA profile from his blood. How does law enforcement place Avery's Touch DNA on that key? If they planted Avery's blood in Halbach's vehicle, why not place a minute amount of his blood on the key? I've always embraced the KISS theory when it comes to true crime cases and this case needs a healthy dose of that theory.

 

[Limaes]

IMO, all of the attempts to poke holes in concrete chain of custody documentation/testimony lack merit, and are merely speculation presented as fact. The burden is now on Steven Avery to prove these claims. Avery nor his advocates have come close to proving their mythical conspiracy narratives. Even their strongest "proof" of a conspiracy lacks any tangible corroboration. The key found in Avery's trailer contains Avery's Touch DNA rather than a DNA profile from his blood. How does law enforcement place Avery's Touch DNA on that key? If they planted Avery's blood in Halbach's vehicle, why not place a minute amount of his blood on the key? I've always embraced the KISS theory when it comes to true crime cases and this case needs a healthy dose of that theory.

Great post. Agree with the k.i.s.s theory.

 

[swedie]

There has been a SA facebook page created and they have and are posting court transcripts and evidence reports. It's titled Steven Avery Project. Hope this is ok mods. If not, please delete my comment. I think it is helpful as there is a lot of information there from the trial there. MOO and HTH.

 

[swedie]

Watch 'Making a Murderer' Lawyer Discuss the Benefits of Web Sleuths

"Some of these people online have found things with a screen shot of a picture that we missed," defense attorney Jerry Buting says

http://www.rollingstone.com/tv/news...-discuss-the-benefits-of-web-sleuths-20160119

 

[MzOpinion8d]

Can anyone tell me if a jury, 3 circuit court judges, and the Wisconsin Supreme Court think Steven Avery is guilty?

I can't seem to find that information anywhere in these threads.

/end sarcasm

 

[Sustained]

Can anyone tell me if a jury, 3 circuit court judges, and the Wisconsin Supreme Court think Steven Avery is guilty?

I can't seem to find that information anywhere in these threads.

/end sarcasm

If Avery was so obviously guilty, why did 7 of 12 jurors initially vote for not guilty ? Were they asleep during the trial and the State's overwhelming evidence ? Obviously, a jury and appeals courts thought him guilty the 1st time around until NEW EVIDENCE was presented. I'm willing to wait and see what Ms. Zellner comes up with ...

 

[MzOpinion8d]

As of now ... but if Avery is exonerated, what do you think will happen to BD ?

I really don't know. I can't figure out how they convicted two people of the same crime with completely different scenarios. Especially when Kratz said in closing arguments at Avery's trial that "only one man is responsible for this".

I don't think Brendan had anything to do with any of it, but I still am uncertain about Avery. I believe the cops planted evidence to make a solid case, but I think it's possible he had some involvement or knowledge about it. It's also possibly he is innocent. I am going to try to read some of the newly released transcripts this weekend.

 

[Tawny]

IMO, all of the attempts to poke holes in concrete chain of custody documentation/testimony lack merit, and are merely speculation presented as fact. The burden is now on Steven Avery to prove these claims. Avery nor his advocates have come close to proving their mythical conspiracy narratives. Even their strongest "proof" of a conspiracy lacks any tangible corroboration. The key found in Avery's trailer contains Avery's Touch DNA rather than a DNA profile from his blood. How does law enforcement place Avery's Touch DNA on that key? If they planted Avery's blood in Halbach's vehicle, why not place a minute amount of his blood on the key? I've always embraced the KISS theory when it comes to true crime cases and this case needs a healthy dose of that theory.

Sorry but I'll keep questioning LE's chain of custody legitimacy after seeing that evidence box cut open and scotch taped back together. I don't think the blood came from that vial, but the fact the box was tampered with shows me their "chain of custody" is seriously lacking credibility.

 

[ElleElle]

There has been a SA facebook page created and they have and are posting court transcripts and evidence reports. It's titled Steven Avery Project. Hope this is ok mods. If not, please delete my comment. I think it is helpful as there is a lot of information there from the trial there. MOO and HTH.

Thanks swedie! Lots of good stuff on this page. Including Jodi, who changed HER story. I don't trust her.

 

[Madeleine74]

Sorry but I'll keep questioning LE's chain of custody legitimacy after seeing that evidence box cut open and scotch taped back together. I don't think the blood came from that vial, but the fact the box was tampered with shows me their "chain of custody" is seriously lacking credibility.

The initial seal of red tape put on the box and then being opened is not hinky. That's how evidence is then accessed for testing after a sample is collected from the beginning.

The weird part is who used scotch tape to seal the box and when and why? Was that box opened more than once after the initial testing done? Obviously protocol wasn't followed which is bad. Doesn't mean someone planted 10 year old blood in TH's SUV, but it sure gives the defense something to argue.

 

[andreww]

I voted that he did it.

That said, I believe that the cops wanted to make absolutely sure that Avery was going down for this, not only as revenge for embarrassing them, but to put an end to the lawsuit that threatened their livelihoods. I believe that evidence may have been planted, and I think because of that Steven should be free.

I believe that Brendan Dassey was easily manipulated due to the stupidity of him and his mother. I think he did pretty much what he said he did, but he was a victim of believing whatever LE told him. "Brendan, if you want to make this go away you've got to tell us exactly what Uncle Steve did". After Brenden spilled his guts, they threw the book at him and supplied him wit the worst lawyer in the history of Lawyers. Someone should have told that kid to shut up, at least until a deal was in place that would see him do no more that 25 years total.

Both their rights were violated and at the very least they both deserve new trials. But with the media attention, is a fair trial even possible?

I find it disgusting that the sordid details of BDs confession are made public, and that everybody at SA's trial knew about that confession, yet BD was never called as a witness and the defence could not erase any of that info from the jurors minds. In Canada there is always a publication ban and reporters can't report on the details until the jury is sequestered.

That said, I believe the cops got the right guy. I know you can take small pieces of evidence an make it look suspicious, but when you look at the case as a whole, you see how complicated things become. If Steven was innocent, TH would likely have been off the property. She would have gotten the auto trader fee, walked to her truck and left. People will say that she could have finished with Steven, but was grabbed by Bobby Dassey or someone else as she left. But then why would Steven call TH asking why she didn't show up? Next you have Steven's sweat under the hood of the RAV4. Cops may have planted blood, but they didn't have a vial of sweat that I know about. Then we have Brendan Dassey, who confessed for some reason. Sure the cops may have forced it out of him, but how did he know about the blood spot in the garage? How did he get bleach on his jeans? And how in hell would he know about his uncles leg irons? He knows about the bones in then fire. He knows that they loaded the body in the RAV4 as substantiated by THs blood/hair pattern in the back.

So either Brendan the dolt figured out exactly what to say and for some reason confessed to something he didn't do or, the guilt of it got to him and ate him up until he had to tell somebody. I'd say guilt is a far more likely scenario.

Finally, The number of people that would have to lie and put their law enforcement careers on hold is staggering. Sure, it may look like some of these guys were being deceitful on the stand, but that was years after the fact. Would you remember exactly what time you left work on any given day five years ago? And the film crew jumped on every slip up.

Bottom line is that getting the right guy is far less important than maintaining the rights of every single American. In my opinion Steven Avery and Brendan Dassey should be set free. I think a retrial is out of then question because we have no idea as to what is evidence and what is planted. You just can't throw out evidence items 1,5 and 7 because they look suspicious, and continue to use 2,3,4, and 6. If three items are tainted you have to assume that all items are tainted.