Stranger abduction theory

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Were the cars parked where they are visible to those inside the school and could be observed? The office, any of the classrooms, etc.?
 
I cannot see that it was a stranger since the LE's remark about the case not be random. So they must have somehow known from the beginning of the invesitgation that it was someone Kyron knew? Here is a possibility to consider. We do not know why the 16 yr old son was sent to live with his grandparents. This only happened recently. He was cleared by his bio father because they went on a camping trip. But do not forget Joran's Dad covering for his son in the Holloway case. Need I say more. But only a theory....
 
STEADFAST said:
On the other hand, people might not even give any thought to a parent and child they were familiar with. It would stand out if a child they knew were walking with a person they had never seen.
For instance, I couldn't tell you if I saw my neighbor and her child outside yesterday. I could definitely tell you though, whether I saw her child with a complete stranger yesterday.
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That could be true. I always notice the parents I know that are with their children. If I did not know the child and saw someone else with the child and didnt know them either then I would just assume the person was either their parent or maybe another family member or even a teacher that I had never met.

IMO
 
SleuthyGal said:
So then how would a perp negotiate this same rugged terrain with a kidnapped 7 yr old Kyron? If Kyron was walking he wouldn't be able to walk in this terrain. If the perp was carrying Kyron and trying to negotiate this difficult terrain then that seems even more difficult.

So they walked and then left no evidence, no trace, no one saw anything, no one heard any struggle and there was no scent that any of the dogs picked up on?

Doesn't seem very probable given the reality of the terrain.

IMHO Kyron didn't WALK anywhere past the parking lot. I believe he got into a car with someone he knew very well. I don't believe this was a stranger at all.
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Right now, I'd say that I'm leaning 45% towards a stranger or casual acquaintance abduction, 45% towards stepmom and 10% Kyron walked away on his own or was abducted by a family member other than stepmom.

The dogs didn't pick him up inside the school or outside the school, two locations where he is known to have been.

That he was not found by SAR personnel or dogs means, well, that he wasn't found. I think there is a low probability chance that he is somewhere out in the rugged area and just not found.

Thinking about searches in general, every search involves covering territory to a point where there is a reasonable certainty that the person/remains are not located there. In general, the more territory that is covered, the more likely it is that something is missed. In Kyron's case, that 2.5 mile circle from the school includes nearly 5 square miles or 3200 acres of territory.

The type of search with the highest probability of not missing anything is a search conducted by trained personnel on their hands and knees, moving shoulder to shoulder over the territory. That is also the most personnel intensive and slowest type of search. It isn't practical to carry out over areas of more than a couple acres.

The type of search most likely to miss something is a search conducted from a motor vehicle. People think they've seen everything but the reality is that they really can't, even if they are only going 5 mph. That 5 mph translates into a 12 minute mile, which is a jogging pace for a human being. I doubt there is anyone who could effectively examine the landscape while they are jogging on foot; driving a vehicle does not magically improve eyesight.

Somewhere in between the two extremes are searches carried out by trained SAR personnel and dogs. That means that, with the best training and intentions in the world, there is still a small possibility that they have missed something.

I think it is most probable that Kyron left school property in a vehicle. Whether that vehicle was driven by someone he knew, I do not know.

While some have said he would not have gotten into a vehicle with a stranger, I believe it is possible he walked out to a vehicle willingly, perhaps to help someone. If he didn't enter the vehicle willingly, he was a physically slight kid (50 lbs) and would not have been difficult to physically overcome.
 
I just can not go with Stranger Abduction.

I could be in denial and not want to think a small child can vanish from a hallway of small school and be taken by a stranger.

I just felt from the very beginning SM story wasn't working for me.

BUT I can not quit thinking about Kristian Horman and his court date and the timing of Kyron disappearance. I would love to know how Kristian and Kaine got along.

Kaine life was going good and Kristain been in and out court since 2003. From what I read Kristain is not a very nice guy. I guess I should move on to theories.:banghead:
 
IIRC, LE did indeed talk to the RSO's in the area , at the very beginning of the case. Nothing.

Although the school does go up to the 6th grade, it's highly unlikely it was an older student,IMO. It goes to the difficulty of hiding a body and disposing of a body. A grid search was done, the 2 mile radius of the school was grid searched.Nothing at all.

I have been researching child molestation cases, cases where the perp is a stranger,and molests a child or children in a school. It's more common than I ever would have imagined. But, I could find NO other case where a stranger entered an unfamiliar school and kidnapped a child. None.

IMO it's much more likely to have been someone Kyron knew and trusted. A lot.

All JMO
 
When I look at the available information at this point, stranger abduction seems extremely unlikely. Unless you think that the local LE and FBI are both a bunch of idiots, then you cannot come to the conclusion that there is a stranger abduction in this case. They have stated in no uncertain terms that the public is not in danger and this is an isolated incident. If they have the slightest doubt about it being a stranger abduction, then they wouldn't touch those types of statements with a 10 foot pole.
 
cluciano63 said:
I was under the impression that kids as old as 13 or so went to this school-has that been clarified? Anyway, I do not think it was a student...was just kind of theorizing as to someone who was a stranger but not really, in trying to see where LE is coming from if not family. I can't think of any cases involving student of this age group that managed to keep quiet for more than two weeks, these things get out, somehow, even if they are just gossip. If there is a perp in this case, and there must be, it has to be a lone adult, with possible assistance since the crime.
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K-8. So kids as old at 13/14.
 
I don't know that it was a stranger abduction, but I'm not convinced it was Terri, either. Just don't know what to believe at this point.

But I do know that it is far easier to snatch someone, adult or child, in a crowd with no one paying attention and no one seeing anything unusual than you might imagine. You can restrain someone pretty easy with just a grip on the shoulder or arm and a warning.

I'm just puzzled why no one noticed he wasn't there for classes all day. Teachers must have assumed Terri took him with her. So when someone remembered seeing her wave at him and walk out... why didn't that someone come forward and say whether they saw him with her or not? Doesn't make sense to me. If they saw her leave without him... then they should have sounded the alarm, did a lockdown and searched right then.

I must be getting old because this whole thing is just not adding up to me. Schools should be more responsible, especially with small children.
 
chargers2010 said:
When I look at the available information at this point, stranger abduction seems extremely unlikely. Unless you think that the local LE and FBI are both a bunch of idiots, then you cannot come to the conclusion that there is a stranger abduction in this case. They have stated in no uncertain terms that the public is not in danger and this is an isolated incident. If they have the slightest doubt about it being a stranger abduction, then they wouldn't touch those types of statements with a 10 foot pole.
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Yeah, they might. If they believe that it was someone he knew, maybe not really well, just someone he saw fairly often... or if there was not a history of missing kids in that area recently. They may believe it was his stepmom, but I would bet they are looking at other possibilities too.
 
SurfieTX said:
It would absolutely have to be someone connected to the school somehow with intimate knowledge. Otherwise, how would the perp know that SM was going to take K to school that morning and at what time? He usually rode the bus and was scheduled to in order to get home that afternoon. There was only about a 15 minute window in which to abduct.

I'm sure of the fact that his project was brought to school earlier than the abduction day. Everyone's was already set up...including the "electric" one..which is down the stairs, I'm assuming, from his classroom based on the pictures.
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Are you sure? I had heard they brought it in that morning....
 
GrainneDhu said:
SAR dogs and cadaver dogs can do amazing things but they are not perfect. There have been searches where it was realised later that dogs were within feet of the remains without indicating on them. And other cases where the dog indicated on remains but the handler did not pick up on or correctly interpret the indication (for example, there was a dead animal near hidden remains and the handler saw the dead animal first, then assumed that was what the dog was indicating on).

.
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Respectifully snipped for space. BBM. If my cadavar dog hit on a dead animal, I would have zero confidence in that dog. Likewise, if I'm the trainer and I think my dog hit on dead animal and that didn't raise a red flag for me that something is amiss with either the dog or the situation, then I don't need to be working dogs.

A well trained cadavar dog hits on cadaverine and putrecine and other smells of death that are distinctive of a dead human being.

Dead humans do not smell like any other dead animal.
 
TxLady2 said:
Yeah, they might. If they believe that it was someone he knew, maybe not really well, just someone he saw fairly often... or if there was not a history of missing kids in that area recently. They may believe it was his stepmom, but I would bet they are looking at other possibilities too.
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Please forward me the documentation where the LE & FBI have stated the public are not in danger. I live here...and as of yesterday the last statement was that they could no longer confirm it was NOT a stranger abduction...
 
SurfieTX said:
It would absolutely have to be someone connected to the school somehow with intimate knowledge. Otherwise, how would the perp know that SM was going to take K to school that morning and at what time? He usually rode the bus and was scheduled to in order to get home that afternoon. There was only about a 15 minute window in which to abduct.

I'm sure of the fact that his project was brought to school earlier than the abduction day. Everyone's was already set up...including the "electric" one..which is down the stairs, I'm assuming, from his classroom based on the pictures.
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Someone help me out here. I'm still stuck on the "deskmate's statement about Kyron and the electric experiment and what he said about the "substitute" noticing Kyron missing. I think his statement is the only one so far that gives even a vague clue if indeed it happened as he described. Here are the questions that keep me up at night:

• Did he really see Kyron in the hallway rushing off to see a cool experiment?

• Was there an electric experiment and if so where?

• Why would he say the "substitute" noticed Kyron was missing after the tour if this never happened?

• He said the teacher said he probably went to the bathroom or was getting a drink, then she left. Who left, the teacher or the "substitute?"

• If she did indeed notice he was missing, did she see him at the beginning of the tour? If not, how did she know he was supposed to be there?

• Were there a number of volunteers at the school at that time who helped with the science fair, and if so did some of them leave right around the time Kyron was at the bathroom or getting water (once the kids were back in class), just after the tour? If so, there could have been a number of people leaving from various areas at that time. Could Kyron have disappeared with one of them? Fewer people around at that time...lots going on...easy to lure a kid out to a car on the pretense of helping you load something up.

http://www.koinlocal6.com/mostpopular/story/Hormans-desk-mate-says-substitute-noticed-Horman/TVY3YTREG0SyCP3tb3MkZg.cspx
 
All so quick to jump to stepmom. Stats show 25% abductions family related...so why so quick to rule out the other 75%? Cannot say with certainty she was involved. Think a woman at the school with help from a man...woman known to him...he was lured away by them with something...a snake or science fair attraction? Driven away for sure. Stranger with sexual intentions...possibly by both...but I'm not yet convinced this is homocide...send up your prayers.
 
liz b. said:
I have been researching child molestation cases, cases where the perp is a stranger,and molests a child or children in a school. It's more common than I ever would have imagined. But, I could find NO other case where a stranger entered an unfamiliar school and kidnapped a child. None.
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They are very rare but not unheard of.

There are two cases of strangers abducting children from schools mentioned here:

http://www.drphil.com/shows/show/1107

Here's an article about Stacie Wilmoth, who was abducted from her school (found alive):

http://www.theoutlookonline.com/news/print_story.php?story_id=127604789675353300

There was also a case mentioned in one of the early Kyron threads of a girl abducted from her school and assaulted in the area of the dumpster. I have been unable to find a link for that one, however.

It is very, very rare, I agree.

But so is the complete disappearance of a 7 year old boy.
 
chargers2010 said:
When I look at the available information at this point, stranger abduction seems extremely unlikely. Unless you think that the local LE and FBI are both a bunch of idiots, then you cannot come to the conclusion that there is a stranger abduction in this case. They have stated in no uncertain terms that the public is not in danger and this is an isolated incident. If they have the slightest doubt about it being a stranger abduction, then they wouldn't touch those types of statements with a 10 foot pole.
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Why not?

Legally, they are covered. The Supreme Court has ruled more than once that there is no constitutional duty on the part of the police to protect the public.

In this case:

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/28/politics/28scotus.html

The mother of three daughters had a restraining order against her ex. He abducted them and called her to tell her he had them at an amusement park. She tried for HOURS to get the police to go there and arrest him. They did not and he eventually killed all three girls.

The Supreme Court ruled that even under those circumstances, the police had no duty to protect.
 
s_finch said:
Respectifully snipped for space. BBM. If my cadavar dog hit on a dead animal, I would have zero confidence in that dog. Likewise, if I'm the trainer and I think my dog hit on dead animal and that didn't raise a red flag for me that something is amiss with either the dog or the situation, then I don't need to be working dogs.

A well trained cadavar dog hits on cadaverine and putrecine and other smells of death that are distinctive of a dead human being.

Dead humans do not smell like any other dead animal.
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It goes to the quality of the training and handling involved.

Having gone through many demos by LE and SAR, I can say for sure that training and handling levels vary. Wildly.

In a search involving 1300 people, do you want to vouch for the skills and abilities of every single one?

I keep stating it over and over: it is, in my opinion, a very low probability but it is not zero.
 
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