Suicide by economic crisis

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Leilei said:
From the video I saw, he took two (IMO). There is an in-court video where it looks like he swallows something right after the verdict, then again about five minutes later, along with drinking from the water bottle he brought with him....
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I can't tell whether he is actually swallowing something the second time.

He seems fine for the 5 minutes after the first time, when he quite obviously swallows something.

Is there a poison that only works in two doses? Or is it possible he took tranquilizers or painkillers the first time to build up his nerve to take the actual poison the second time?

This is one toxicology report I really want to see.
 
If it's poison, it has to be something that worked fast and was deadly. Something like this would work in one dose.
 
Nova said:
I can't tell whether he is actually swallowing something the second time.

He seems fine for the 5 minutes after the first time, when he quite obviously swallows something.

Is there a poison that only works in two doses? Or is it possible he took tranquilizers or painkillers the first time to build up his nerve to take the actual poison the second time?

This is one toxicology report I really want to see.
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Me too, that's why I checked back today just in case they figured out what he took quickly.

I watched the vid. I'm not sure he took something the second time either. The first time yes. The second time it looks like he might just be touching his face and swallowing hard. Maybe he had some nausea the second time we see him swallow hard. Just some speculation.
 
Kat said:
Me too, that's why I checked back today just in case they figured out what he took quickly.

I watched the vid. I'm not sure he took something the second time either. The first time yes. The second time it looks like he might just be touching his face and swallowing hard. Maybe he had some nausea the second time we see him swallow hard. Just some speculation.
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It's possible, as he went for his water bottle the second time. I'm just haunted by the fact that he sat there, just waiting... and the sounds were awful. I guess it's disturbing to me because I knew what was going on (allegedly). And I agree, the tox report should be very interesting. I even saw a comment somewhere that it may have been a peanut allergy (that's a big ole stretch, that was no peanut).
 
Nova said:
His grandchildren would have been virtual adults by the time he got out of prison; even his children may well have been strangers. It's not as though he was going to be able to be a key part of their lives for the next decade and a half. So I'm not convinced this action was so terribly selfish.

I don't deny that his own choices brought him to the point of desperation. But isn't that true of all of us?
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Nova I don't follow your reasoning. Desperate suicides don't plan and calculate their actions.

A grown man committing suicide publicly because he didn't get the verdict he wanted is incredibly selfish. Not surprising though, considering that he had just been convicted of a crime which was also selfish.

How is it not selfish to commit suicide publicly, in front of people who will live the rest of their lives wondering how they didn't see what was going on right before their eyes? Do you think that isn't going to affect them?

How is it not selfish to put your family through not only seeing you die right before them but then have to relive it for days while it is splashed all over the news? And to leave that legacy to your grandchildren. Is that okay to do just because you didn't get what you wanted?

How is it not selfish to kill yourself during a court proceeding where the judge/jurors who were doing their civic duty will now live with the thought that their decision caused a man to take his own life? What about that is fair?

This man has by his own actions caused a great deal of stress for a lot of people. He cared nothing for them and their well being, only for himself and what he wanted. That is selfishness in it's purest form.
 
Jack said:
Nova I don't follow your reasoning. Desperate suicides don't plan and calculate their actions.

A grown man committing suicide publicly because he didn't get the verdict he wanted is incredibly selfish. Not surprising though, considering that he had just been convicted of a crime which was also selfish.

How is it not selfish to commit suicide publicly, in front of people who will live the rest of their lives wondering how they didn't see what was going on right before their eyes? Do you think that isn't going to affect them?

How is it not selfish to put your family through not only seeing you die right before them but then have to relive it for days while it is splashed all over the news? And to leave that legacy to your grandchildren. Is that okay to do just because you didn't get what you wanted?

How is it not selfish to kill yourself during a court proceeding where the judge/jurors who were doing their civic duty will now live with the thought that their decision caused a man to take his own life? What about that is fair?

This man has by his own actions caused a great deal of stress for a lot of people. He cared nothing for them and their well being, only for himself and what he wanted. That is selfishness in it's purest form.
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All good points, Jack, and I didn't mean to nominate Marin for Humanitarian of the Year.

But I thought we were talking about the act of suicide itself. Marin waited for the verdict and one way to view that is he waited until his situation was absolutely desperate before he took action.

Once the verdict was read, I'm assuming Marin had a finite number of minutes before the strip search that greets all new inmates upon arrival in the System. (I suppose it's possible he might have been granted bail during an appeal, but that seems less and less common nowadays.) Yes, it would have been nice if he could have excused himself and gone to the men's room, but I doubt he had that option once the verdict was read.

To me, prison sounds awful enough that I don't find it unreasonable that a 50-something (essentially my age) man would prefer death to 16 years Inside. Of course, Marin's own behavior brought him to desperation, but, again, I thought we were talking about the suicide. If poison was his means of choice, he may very well have taken his last opportunity.
 
I don't see why the judge and jury should blame themselves, because I don't see anybody arguing that this man was not guilty of a crime he was convicted of. But I also understand why he allegedly did what he did. 16 years is a lot for a man his age. What did he have to look forward to, while in prison?
And they were going to take him to jail and search him, so he had to act fast once the verdict was read.
 
The bottom line here is if he was judged NOT guilty, he wouldn't have taken whatever it was.

This is a person who had a lot of things and a lot of adventures and hated losing it all and ending up in prison. He might have been a grand adventurer, but in jail...well he wasn't going to command any sort of respect at all. He knew he couldn't cut it and offed himself.

It's less about economic issues than it is about avoiding something he didn't want to do.
 
michmi said:
The bottom line here is if he was judged NOT guilty, he wouldn't have taken whatever it was.

This is a person who had a lot of things and a lot of adventures and hated losing it all and ending up in prison. He might have been a grand adventurer, but in jail...well he wasn't going to command any sort of respect at all. He knew he couldn't cut it and offed himself.

It's less about economic issues than it is about avoiding something he didn't want to do.
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I'm guessing he didn't want to die either -- actually, I'd bet on it. Especially that way. So he chose one extremely unpleasant consequence over another. I'm not upset that he "got away" with not having to serve a prison sentence by killing himself.

And who knows, maybe he wasn't guilty at all. Every other person you meet in AZ is in foreclosure. It's no big deal anymore. Hundreds of thousands of people of all walks of life have just walked away. In fact, most high-end buyers who are business savvy are doing it in droves. It just makes better sense than committing a felony. Especially if the insurance proceeds are going to the lenders on an interest only loan, as it seems was the case here. Idk, the whole thing just seems a little off to me. One thing I noticed that the newtimes didn't ask is about the phone books and the low-priced box fillers. I wonder what his explanation for that was...
 
Karmady said:
I'm guessing he didn't want to die either -- actually, I'd bet on it. Especially that way. So he chose one extremely unpleasant consequence over another. I'm not upset that he "got away" with not having to serve a prison sentence by killing himself.

And who knows, maybe he wasn't guilty at all. Every other person you meet in AZ is in foreclosure. It's no big deal anymore. Hundreds of thousands of people of all walks of life have just walked away. In fact, most high-end buyers who are business savvy are doing it in droves. It just makes better sense than committing a felony. Especially if the insurance proceeds are going to the lenders on an interest only loan, as it seems was the case here. Idk, the whole thing just seems a little off to me. One thing I noticed that the newtimes didn't ask is about the phone books and the low-priced box fillers. I wonder what his explanation for that was...
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Didn't he claim he was moving in a bunch of his stuff when the fire happened? I bet he hoped the phone books would burn everything up faster and the boxes would be mostly burned but perhaps make it look like he was in fact moving in. Hoping that if it looked like he was moving in, authorities would be less likely to suspect he'd purposely torched the place?

The psychology of this guy is fascinating. I wish he'd had a psych eval that we could read. To me his method of killing himself, if he really took poison, goes along with all his other daredevil actions. Climbing Mt. Everest, making a shady-looking deal when he bought his house, setting his house on fire and escaping in a wet suit, etc.
 
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