SURPRISE HEARING Friday 18th August

[indicat]

Snipped for space and relevance, respectfully.

First I want to say that I hope you don't think I am stalking you or attacking or being snarky directly to you, because that is not the case. I am simply answering your questions and posts because they are valid and ones that I feel that I can answer and I am just trying to help clear things up. If you would rather I didn't you can tell me not to and I won't be offended.

Anyway, the reason that they can't be said for certain to be hairs belonging to these two men is because that is true, they could belong to other maternal relatives of them. But that's about it. Just them or their maternal relatives. It is the same as when they found the hair in the trunk of Casey Anthony's car. They couldn't say for certain that the hair was Caylee's because if there is no root and just the hair they can only get mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA). When they took this DNA and compared it to David Jacoby and Terry Hobbs it matched their mtDNA. This doesn't mean that it was them, because they share their mtDNA with all of their maternal relatives. But I think when you put 2 and 2 together, what are the chances that 2 of their maternal relatives hairs were at the crime scene as opposed to being theirs?

I for one would give a lot more weight to 2 hairs with mtDNA than I would 10 fibers consistent with clothes sold at Walmart. What would we all have given for 2 hairs in the duct tape in Caylee's case that weren't Caylee's?

HRCODEPINK,
From somebody who waffles on this case I just wanted to say that your posts are a credit to the "innocent" side of the issue. I appreciate the way you answer questions with valid information and a respectful non attacking way.
:tyou:

 

[guardangel]

The reason for the Alford plea has been explained to you repeatedly. I think an expectation for them to be able to prove their innocence in 36 hours is a little unrealistic. If they do, what will you say then? Just curious.

:gthanks:

 

[indicat]

SmoothOperator,

I have to say in hindsight what your saying about Jason Baldwin's reasons for plea being orchestrated has crossed my mind. It was not my first reaction to seeing it but I have thought about it.

 

[guardangel]

C2C radio show has a LAPD interrogator on tonight. I called in and asked him about the WM3 case and asked him what he thought more specifically about the Jessie Misskelley interrogation.

Before he answered the questions Ian Punnett asked me to clarify what I meant about the interrogation of Jessie Misskelley. I said that I was concerned about his interrogation because the majority of it wasn't taped and that I felt that the taped part was what the cops had instructed him to say. I feel that when cops are interviewing low IQ suspects that they lead them into saying what they want to hear.

He was of the opinion that the WM3 case was a great miscarriage of justice. (meaning the kids were railroaded) He said it was a case he was particularly interested in and thought that interrogators need to take special care when interrogating low IQ suspects.
I just thought the people here might find it interesting.

bbm/ubm
Steely,
A huge thank you for calling in, asking your question(s) and for posting the LEO's opinion.

 

[guardangel]

Yah I wouldn't hold my breath. Hey maybe they'll write a book. You know....a "If I did it" book ......:innocent:

Kind of like Kryron's stepmom? and others?

 

[guardangel]

I'm sure they have already been working on that book/movie. That could be the motive of those who have involved themselves with the defendants.

Hey, maybe they will become friends with Casey Anthony. They could all play hide n' seek. I also believe Karma is on the way for all of them.

It would not surprise me to see their names in the headlines in the future.

You can bet your farm that Karma will get the real killers.
THANK GOD the real killers aren't the WM3.

 

[guardangel]

If karma is on the way for the WM3 they will probably win the Lottery jackpot, because they should have been able to sue the state for 18 stolen years.

:woohoo:

 

[gitana1]

People DO recover from psychosis. This is one of the most severe symptoms of schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, major depression, brain injuries, toxic substance ingestion and etc...

No one is "dependent" upon antidepressants. They are not a controlled substance and not physically addictive....or I should more correctly state that they have a different type of addictive quality.

He was diagnosed by several psychiatrists and other health professionals using the MMPI as being schizophrenic and bipolar.

It is unknown if he ever took his Imipramine while at home (his mom is 'interesting") or while incarcerated. Read the affidavit of George W. Woods, M.D. where this is discussed.
http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/gwoods.html

He may have experienced more profound mental health problems if he actually took his Imipramine for several weeks as this old medicine is known for sending bipolar patients into mania.

Bipolar disorder is best treated with medications and counseling and social support.


Pensfan
---------
verified psychiatric mental health nurse
three long decades

BBM. I have reviewed different anaylses of the SAME MMPII test results. I have reviewed different interpretations of identical test results. The anaylsis of the MMPII test results is subjective.

Just need to know if it says he had his teeth pulled knowing that LE wanted the impressions.

• Hobbs was accused of molesting his son from his first marriage.
• Like Mark Byers, Terry Hobbs had his teeth pulled by a dentist in the mid-nineties.
• Terry Hobbs did not take a polygraph exam regarding the crime and refuses now to take an exam or provide handprints or footprints.
• Hobbs had three guns in 1993. Among these, he named one Willy and one Smith.
• Hobbs claimed to have visited the area of the pipe with Officer Meek. Officer Meek testified she did not see him that night.
• Jamie Clark Ballard, a neighbor of Hobbs in 1993, along with two of her family, came forward to say that they saw Terry Hobbs with the victims at 6:30 pm that night. Hobbs denied this, saying he had not seen any of the victims that day.

http://www.jivepuppi.com/Terry_Hobbs.html

 

[indicat]

I wouldn't hold your breath waiting for that book either - the Son of Sam law prevents anyone who pleads guilty or nolo contendre to a crime from re-enacting that crime in books, films, etc.

I'm pretty sure there are ways to filter money and info to get around that pesky Son of Sam law.

 

[Nova]

Kinda OT:
How can these 3 guys be sent to prison for 18 years over nothing but hearsay, a coerced confession and a blatant fear of the occult and people being "different" in that town YET Casey Anthony be set free?? Sigh.. sorry. Just ran thru my head after reading all the posts about these poor kids.
I know we have the greatest legal system but OMG it is SO flawed!!

How do we know we have the greatest legal system? (Of course, in another sense we don't have one legal system, we have 50.)

I'm not saying another system is better. I'm just wondering how we can know.

 

[gitana1]

More on Hobbs from the same site:


Close associates and several members of Pamela Hobbs family gave sworn depositions with devastating accusations.

• Jo Lynn McAughey, Stevie's aunt, stated that Terry Hobbs repeated sexually molested his daughter, Amanda. She stated that he used cocaine, crystal meth and marijuana. She stated she was at the Hobbs house on May 6, 1993 and saw "Terry wash clothes, bed linens and curtains at an odd hour. [snip] ...he was not just washing the dirty laundry, but he was also taking clothes out of the dresser drawers and washing those, too." She stated she found Stevie's prized pocketknife, one he always kept with him, among Terry Hobbs belongings. Pam declared she was surprised that the knife was not found on his body. Jo Lynn said that Terry Hobbs had told her that his experience as a butcher gave him the skill to make the cut on Chris Byers' genitals. She stated she discovered Terry had a large cache of knives. In response, Terry Hobbs admitted to the drug use, gave contradictory stories about Stevie's knife, denied washing items on May 6th, denied discussing the murders with Jo Lynn and denied the molestation charges.
• Judy Sadler, Stevie's aunt, stated Stevie told her Terry Hobbs locked Stevie in the closet and beat him. She said he forced Stevie and his sister Amanda to watch *advertiser censored*, and threatened to kill members of the Hicks family if Stevie told. She said Terry forced Stevie to sexually molest his sister and he made Stevie watch him masturbate. Terry Hobbs denied these accusations.
• Sheila Hicks, Stevie's aunt, stated that Terry Hobbs whipped Stevie Branch leaving welts. She stated he forced Stevie to play "dead cockroach," lying on his back with his arms and legs raised and, when his limbs grew tired and he tried to lower them, Terry would "whoop" him. She also stated that Stevie talked about fights that Terry and Pam had and Stevie saw Terry strangling Pam. Finally, she stated in 1997 that she saw Terry Hobbs simulating sex with his then nine year old daughter, Amanda.
  
• Marie Hicks, Stevie's grandmother, claimed that Terry Hobbs was physically and sexually abusive, used drugs and was alcoholic. She said that when Amanda Hobbs was young, she confided in her that Terry Hobbs stuck his finger in her "booty." Terry Hobbs denied all of this.
• Amanda Hobbs, Terry's daughter, gave a devastating plea regarding her father's abuse. Terry denied the abuse and said he couldn't remember if he ever discussed this subject with her.
• Sharon Nelson, Hobbs girlfriend, said that Hobbs claimed that he found the bodies before the police but left them there, undiscovered. Hobbs denied this.
• David Jacoby, Hobbs friend, said that he only searched with Terry Hobbs briefly before dark. He also stated that when Terry Hobbs came to his house, he saw the three victims in the street behind him. Hobbs denied ever having seen the victims that evening and described repeated trips searching with Jacoby.
• Mildred French, an elderly neighbor of his during the 1980s, said that she was sexually attacked by Terry Hobbs. She also stated that he claimed to have killed her cat. Charges were filed. Without actually denying the attack, Terry dismissed this as being ancient history. He admitted to being sentenced to counselling at the time. He denied saying he killed her cat.

http://www.jivepuppi.com/Terry_Hobbs.html

 

[Compassionate Reader]

In an earlier post it was said the parents didn't care who was convicted as long as someone was and that they were behind this "witch hunt" Do those of you that have followed this case think that the parents were railroading them at the beginning? or was LE/authorities driving this train and the parents hopped aboard? I came in way to late to make a determination like that.
Thanks.

My opinion is that initially the parents all believed what LE told them. JMB has said much the same thing in the interview I previously posted. Pam said it in the interview I posted, too. Even Ricky Murray (Chris' biological dad) recently posted something on Facebook that was supportive of the innocence of the WM3. I believe he still thinks JMB is guilty.

Of the remaining parents, Steve Branch, Sr. (who relinquished his parental rights to Stevie but is now making statements to the press about the guilt of the WM3) had been silent to this point. He never attended proceedings or seemed interested until the last couple of days, Therefore, IMO his ravings aren't worth too much because he's so totally uninformed about the recent information.

Terry Hobbs hasn't said too much since shortly after the whole debacle of the Pasdar suit. Melissa Byers is dead and died believing in the guilt of the WM3 because she died before the DNA results were made public. Todd and Dana Moore have steadfastly refused to go to proceedings and/or look at new evidence.

In short, the parents who have tried to keep abreast of the ongoing revelations in the case have come to doubt what LE told them. The only parents who still believe LE are the ones who refuse to keep abreast of recent developments, and, of course THe real killer.

 

[guardangel]

The link has a removed video. Just to clarify,how do we know that the teeth were pulled when he knew that LE wanted impressions of them-implication being he removed them to avoid detection? Does he laugh about removing them to avoid police or ?? IOW,were they pulled for another reason? I am just trying to sort out fact from opinion as it relates to the case all the way around.

I suppose if the video has been removed, someone can try and find a transcript of the PLost films. I heard what was said, I heard and watched him laugh.

If you don't approve of what I posted, please remove it. IMOO tia

 

[guardangel]

OK that makes sense to me. thanks to those that helped me here.

General request to members:
Since there are so many new members and lurkers that have become interested in this case, let's be particularly careful about differentiating fact from opinion.
Feel free to state what and why things were said or done, just make sure that we all clarify what we or others have deduced from surrounding information and what may have been proven or corroborated in trial,statements or other sources.
I hope that helps and that what I am saying makes sense.

SOo we are back to stating MOO after ever post?
Memory and removed film footage are NOT to be mentioned? :innocent:

IMHOO it's going to be hard to discuss a case some of us have followed for 19 years if we hve to document every thought and remembered statement.

 

[Compassionate Reader]

I also think the Probation Officer Jerry E (I think that was his name ) had a big influence with LE about the boys and they took that and ran with!!JMO

That would be Jerry Driver and his "partner" Steve Jones. Yes, they were highly influential in getting LE to zero in on Damien. They were on a mission to find the "devil worshipers" that some people were insisting existed. They, or rather Driver, gave Damien's name to LE as the most likely suspect,

 

[gitana1]

I always figured Byers lost his teeth because of meth.

HI STeely. I know the teeth were pulled. I am trying to determine if it is documented that it was done to avoid LE or if it is an opinion.

I should have read to the end of the thread before posting. Like others, I have found nothing to suggest that Hobbs or anyone else had their teeth pulled to get away with a crime.

The fact is, dental care is practically non-existent in many areas of our country, if the person needing the care does not have the funds to pay for it.

I expect that there are tons of people in the West Memphis area that had to have their teeth pulled at some point.

No, few of the things I have posted above about Terry Hobbs lead me to believe he killed Stevie, Christopher or James (Michael), whose names tend to get lost at times in the debate. Really, similar facts can be claimed about Damien Echols.

Instead, it's the forensics. Hobbs DNA was found, IIRC, on the body (shoelace) one of the children, not his step-son. None of the WMIII DNA was found anywhere near the scene.

ETA the name James Michael Moore went by. See what I mean?

 

[Steely Dan]

I've also never understood the fire in the woods scene either, unless there was some evidence undiscovered and needed to be rid of. He knew it was being filmed, how bizarre is this action from an adult?

About 5 minutes in:

Paradise Lost II: Revelations - part 6/9 - YouTube

In this interview John Mark Byers states he believes the WM3 are innocent.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KxKyQJg_Xjk"]Exculsive Interview with John Mark Byers - YouTube[/ame]

 

[SyraKelly]

That would be Jerry Driver and his "partner" Steve Jones. Yes, they were highly influential in getting LE to zero in on Damien. They were on a mission to find the "devil worshipers" that some people were insisting existed. They, or rather Driver, gave Damien's name to LE as the most likely suspect,

Thank you-I knew his first name was Jerry!

 

[guardangel]

I'm pretty sure there are ways to filter money and info to get around that pesky Son of Sam law.

Link please? tia

 

[gitana1]

Hey everyone, please be cool! There are very strong opinions either way, which is understandable. But it is unlikely that we can change each others opinions and we need to be civilized. We are all fellow websleuthers!

Besides, I want to be able to check this thread to get updates. If it gets too nasty, it could get pulled. Please!!!!!!!!!!