Suspect #1: Dellen Millard *Charged* 1st Deg Murder 15 May 2013 #1

[Curiositykitten]

Do any of the legal eagles here know what will happen at the hearing on June 13?

Will any evidence be presented?

Will it be quick or take many hours?

Thanks to anyone who can fill me (and maybe other curious ones) in.

 

[Eldee]

thanks gimmes_sugar and kamille



Yes, and it would be interesting to catalogue everything that DP has said, and you know there are a few instances where he was surprised live on camera - for instance he did not know that TPS had gotten a warrant to search the farm re: WM and LB (second warrant); LE told him nothing and MSM ambushed him.

I think at this point the "wasn't there, wasn't me" defence is clearly out the window. It's going to be about how involved DM was. DP is not arguing that DM was there...he was.

MS is the most ordinary of petty criminals. His lawyer has said nothing. We know almost nothing about him. It's possible MS is a pothead. Two-thirds of Canadians are in favour of legalizing or decriminalizing pot. So are people really going to see this guy as say-10? Or can they only visualize him killing a bag of Doritos?

Certainly Google tells you that DM is the name everyone is talking about. DM's Yukon, DM's trailer, DM's farm, DM's hangar, DM's father, DM's ex, DM's trip to Baja, DM's Dodge Ram 3500, DM's mother's driveway...

I don't understand why MS just doesn't spill.

I think DM has something on MS and MS won't talk unless he hears DM is talking. Some dirty little secret that DM is holding over his head. MOO

 

[jash]

Do any of the legal eagles here know what will happen at the hearing on June 13?

Will any evidence be presented?

Will it be quick or take many hours?

Thanks to anyone who can fill me (and maybe other curious ones) in.

According to DM's lawyer:

Millard may be presented the evidence Hamilton Police have collected, June 13th at his next court appearance.

“They will have forensic reports they will have police officer notes, witness statements, all of that prepared and provided to the crown to be provided to me.”
http://www.chch.com/bosma-family-marks-sad-milestone/

 

[axe2grind]

I think DM has something on MS and MS won't talk unless he hears DM is talking. Some dirty little secret that DM is holding over his head. MOO

I would like to know how the police arrived at MS being suspect #2. Most probably from fingerprints in TBs truck, or from phone calls from the burner phone, but if neither of those, then what? Did the person who ID'd the ambition tattoo also suggest MS as suspect #2? MS would have been a much lesser known person than DM, and the connection between the two of them doesn't seem very well known.

 

[Shaky pi]

snipped for focus

Then I say we need to keep stokin'.

ETA: BTW, you forgot to mention that two eyewitnesses gave matching descriptions, and that the phone used to contact TB, the Etobicoke man, and a third seller was traced to DM.

http://www.torontosun.com/2013/05/10/missing-hamilton-man-tim-bosnas-cell-phone-found-in-brantford

http://www.cp24.com/news/bosma-s-cellphone-found-police-release-new-details-on-suspects-1.1275631

http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/0...ive-with-two-strange-men-and-never-came-back/

Unless they saw plate number.its just another black dodge truck...when u leave ur he today. see how many black dodges u c...i doubt they got plate.

 

[skatergirl]

Skatergirl , you dont really believe that do you ,, We ve seen some wild spectulation here , thats pretty out there , ( not pickin on you )

Heres what we here on websleuths really know . or so we think .

D M and M S walk up tims driveway may 6 , aprox 930 pm ( give/take )
the 2 suspects and tim go for a testdrive .....
gets foggy here people .
Dont know exact time but tims truck seen on security tape ,
also on tape a truck simular to D Ms truck seen behind tims truck ( hell guy next to me owns a truck like that , did a stranger on the way to wendys for a baconator happen to be behind Tims truck ) If indeed it was Tims truck , unless licence plate seen ,,its just another black dodge pick up , I live around case and can tell you thats a crap load of black dodge pickups around here ....
and 1 more thing to remember , most security footage is Black/White footage ,
and most footage is foggy at best , even if better system , its 930 pm in may , its dark ....

So next day or so , tims cell found in dead end street in west brantford industral area .

Ok cops get tip on tatoo , put to public . D M arrested , he aint sayin squat ,

search D M s property , find tims charred remains , thats all theyve said ..

On a tip they search D M s moms home , wham Tims truck found ....

M S arrested , he not sayin squat ,,......

3 or 4 th suspect still remains at large ,, over a month now , more time that goes by , more chance might not ever be caught ..

if not all suspects in custody by time of trial , theres no use going to trial .. if you were crown or defence , theres no way...

More or less thats where we stand really ....

what we dont know ....

when and how and where Tim Died .
Who killed Tim .
was that tims truck in brantford ?????
its spectulated Tim put in insinarator--no proof to us anyway
its spectualated Tim died in truck -- unless Brain matter , no proof really
No seat in truck ,, so what , who took out and when , nothing there

D Ms father killed self , who knows , highly doubt anymore will come of that..
x girlfriend disappeared , no body , she was a hooker, liked drugs, high risk life style ,, unless body found doubt anymore will come of this as well .
( people on this forum ( me included ) help stoke the the fire on these 2 items .

gamimg crap ( i play xbox and watch dexter ) so what , let it go ..

This is just my opinion , but i don think there shouldnt be alot in this post u could really argue with ..

This is not my opinion of the series of events at all, if you had read the quote you would see I was commenting on another user's post...:banghead:::banghead:

 

[Kamille]

There is no benefit for that. The only people who need to hear "their" story is the jury and the judge.

Well if they are both "not guilty" as they have both stated, then it would have been very beneficial for one or both of them to tell their story at least to the investigating LE officers at the time of their arrest. If they are truly "not guilty" and have solid alibi's for the time period in question then they would not likely stand before a judge and jury at all to tell their story. I'm so tired of criminals having all these rights to just stay silent for years and make LE and the prosecution present solid evidence, only to be given years to go over that same evidence and come up with an alternative story that somewhat fits in with that evidence and might raise some reasonable doubt during the course of the trial. Which means that under the law they can't be convicted but that no one is saying they are innocent of the crime either. Every story can be twisted if you have the right information to do so. Why does our judicial system allow that? It should be the other way around. The accused disclose their "story" first and the prosecution has to come up with the alternate story (truth) based on the evidence that they found.

What exactly are they "not guilty" of? I assume these pleas are on the first degree murder charge but at least one of them is not going to be able to claim that he wasn't there at all. I don't think DM would have that option. So is this going to be a case of "it wasn't me it was the other guy?" I just got nervous and went along with the plan to hide evidence because I knew that I would be arrested too even though I didn't do it?" Do we have to go through another long drawn out court trial that shows them both being equally responsible under the law regardless of which one actually took TB's life? Like the Rafferty/McClintic case? Or are we going to see some plea bargaining like in the Bernardo/Holmolka case? I think we all remember how well that went over with the general public.

But that is all rather off topic on the original question which is why the information in the media is so one sided. And my response was that it is one sided because the accused have chosen not to speak out about their side. But they can if they want. They have that right. So the media has no choice but to only report on information that is made public, which at the moment is only information that represents the LE side of the investigation since they are the ones who are out there gathering evidence.

MOO

 

[gimme sugar]

According to DM's lawyer:

Millard may be presented the evidence Hamilton Police have collected, June 13th at his next court appearance.

“They will have forensic reports they will have police officer notes, witness statements, all of that prepared and provided to the crown to be provided to me.”
http://www.chch.com/bosma-family-marks-sad-milestone/

Having worked in a jail and attended court in my job hundreds of times, I can say that most likely, it will get remanded... over and over and over and over. Annoyingly, while either attorney, asks for more time to gather evidence.

 

[Kamille]

I think DM has something on MS and MS won't talk unless he hears DM is talking. Some dirty little secret that DM is holding over his head. MOO

Well unless it's another murder, I can't see MS willing to be fitted up for a first degree murder charge over something more minor.

This will be a finger pointing exercise IMO. To confuse the jury as to who was actually the killer and hopefully raise some reasonable doubt. Wouldn't surprise me if they come up with a third "mystery guy" whose real name they don't know. Nothing surprises me any more.

MOO

 

[Kamille]

I would like to know how the police arrived at MS being suspect #2. Most probably from fingerprints in TBs truck, or from phone calls from the burner phone, but if neither of those, then what? Did the person who ID'd the ambition tattoo also suggest MS as suspect #2? MS would have been a much lesser known person than DM, and the connection between the two of them doesn't seem very well known.

Could be combination of some of these factors. Could be the investigation into the social media activity. Friends coming forward with information/tips. Getting pictures of some of these friends and showing them to the witnesses. Neighbours of MS seeing DM picking him up that night, dropping him off. Or perhaps MS was staying at DM's home for a few days throughout this. And then MS's inability to come up with a solid alibi for the evening that TB disappeared when he was questioned. His behaviour and responses to the questions being posed to him.

Lots of ways for them to have found that second suspect. Obviously not so easy to find a third which is why they have to rethink the events at the beginning of the evening to determine if there was one.

MOO

 

[canadiangirl]

Well unless it's another murder, I can't see MS willing to be fitted up for a first degree murder charge over something more minor.

This will be a finger pointing exercise IMO. To confuse the jury as to who was actually the killer and hopefully raise some reasonable doubt. Wouldn't surprise me if they come up with a third "mystery guy" whose real name they don't know. Nothing surprises me any more.

MOO

I could see that angle as well. I can only hope that DM and MS were positively ID'd by both SB and mystery guy from Etobicoke. I think other test drive man from Etobicoke is instrumental in this case. As for the 3rd mystery guy, it's horrible to think they would make that up isnt it? ugh Justice needs to be served.

 

[Archangel7]

Do we know for sure how DM was charged?

Was it theft and confinement over $5000 upgraded to murder 1? Or

Was it theft and confinement over $5000.
1st deg. Murder meaning two separate counts?

I'm trying to look ahead towards any possibility of severance of counts(if the charges are combined) for DM and even the possibility or whether they(DM,MS) will be tried together? Or separate?

And depending on how DM was officially charged, whether the Crown must prove the theft and confinement to prove 1st deg. murder or with separate charges, the ability to prove theft and confinement independent to proving a stand alone 1st degree murder charge?

Knowing the exact manner of how he was charged and therefore the counts to be tried, may indicate what the police have for evidence. ie evidence geared towards a amateur hijack gone bad or a premeditated murder for a truck.

So in summary, if the theft/confinement is combined with murder and is one count was it(the acts) all in one "transaction," thus one type of evidence needed to prove that one led to the other?

Or a separate theft/confinement from the murder charge which is somewhat of a different set of court options and evidence.

I know we have talked about death during confinement automatically is 1st degree murder but are we sure the affidavit charges him that way? I can't find any exact wording in MSM to clarify. IMO

 

[SnooperDuper]

Do we know for sure how DM was charged?

Was it theft and confinement over $5000 upgraded to murder 1? Or

Was it theft and confinement over $5000.
1st deg. Murder meaning two separate counts?

I'm trying to look ahead towards any possibility of severance of counts(if the charges are combined) for DM and even the possibility or whether they(DM,MS) will be tried together? Or separate?

And depending on how DM was officially charged, whether the Crown must prove the theft and confinement to prove 1st deg. murder or with separate charges, the ability to prove theft and confinement independent to proving a stand alone 1st degree murder charge?

Knowing the exact manner of how he was charged and therefore the counts to be tried, may indicate what the police have for evidence. ie evidence geared towards a amateur hijack gone bad or a premeditated murder for a truck.

So in summary, if the theft/confinement is combined with murder and is one count was it(the acts) all in one "transaction," thus one type of evidence needed to prove that one led to the other?

Or a separate theft/confinement from the murder charge which is somewhat of a different set of court options and evidence.

I know we have talked about death during confinement automatically is 1st degree murder but are we sure the affidavit charges him that way? I can't find any exact wording in MSM to clarify. IMO

May 9 DM was picked up and LE announced charges of forcible confinement and theft over $5k on the 10th

May 14 TB was declared deceased and LE announced they were adding a charge for DM of 1st degree murder on the 15th

May 22 MS was arrested and charged with 1st degree murder

---

Mr. Millard faces charges of first-degree murder, forcible confinement and theft over $5,000 in the death of Mr. Bosma, who went missing after taking two men to test-drive his pickup truck on May 6. Mark Smich, 25, was also charged with first-degree murder.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/in-wake-of-dellen-millard-farm-search-police-to-update-probe-of-laura-babock-disappearance/article12332413/

ETA:

The first-degree murder charge is based on the forcible confinement allegations, Kavanagh said. The charge, often used in planned and premeditated murders, is also used when someone is killed while they are being forcibly confined.

“He entered that vehicle of his own free will, but he was not allowed to leave, therefore forcible confinement is the proper charge,” Kavanagh said when asked about the charge.

http://www2.macleans.ca/2013/05/15/first-degree-murder-charge-to-be-laid-in-test-drive-death-remains-badly-burned/


Does that help any Archangel?

 

[THXGuru]

Well if they are both "not guilty" as they have both stated, then it would have been very beneficial for one or both of them to tell their story at least to the investigating LE officers at the time of their arrest. If they are truly "not guilty" and have solid alibi's for the time period in question then they would not likely stand before a judge and jury at all to tell their story. I'm so tired of criminals having all these rights to just stay silent for years and make LE and the prosecution present solid evidence, only to be given years to go over that same evidence and come up with an alternative story that somewhat fits in with that evidence and might raise some reasonable doubt during the course of the trial. Which means that under the law they can't be convicted but that no one is saying they are innocent of the crime either. Every story can be twisted if you have the right information to do so. Why does our judicial system allow that? It should be the other way around. The accused disclose their "story" first and the prosecution has to come up with the alternate story (truth) based on the evidence that they found.

What exactly are they "not guilty" of? I assume these pleas are on the first degree murder charge but at least one of them is not going to be able to claim that he wasn't there at all. I don't think DM would have that option. So is this going to be a case of "it wasn't me it was the other guy?" I just got nervous and went along with the plan to hide evidence because I knew that I would be arrested too even though I didn't do it?" Do we have to go through another long drawn out court trial that shows them both being equally responsible under the law regardless of which one actually took TB's life? Like the Rafferty/McClintic case? Or are we going to see some plea bargaining like in the Bernardo/Holmolka case? I think we all remember how well that went over with the general public.

But that is all rather off topic on the original question which is why the information in the media is so one sided. And my response was that it is one sided because the accused have chosen not to speak out about their side. But they can if they want. They have that right. So the media has no choice but to only report on information that is made public, which at the moment is only information that represents the LE side of the investigation since they are the ones who are out there gathering evidence.

MOO

I understand what you are saying, but it does not make any difference if they speak. Speaking after DM is arrested is not going to make any difference, LE does not arrest you and then investigate what you have said.

Not speaking is the best thing a person like DM could do right now when a body was found on your property and the ram was found hidden at your mothers house.

If DM was questioned, that is where the alibi makes a difference and LE could try to clear you, but the body and hidden truck are too powerful. JMO

 

[Archangel7]

May 9 DM was picked up and LE announced charges of forcible confinement and theft over $5k on the 10th

May 14 TB was declared deceased and LE announced they were adding a charge for DM of 1st degree murder on the 15th

May 22 MS was arrested and charged with 1st degree murder

---

Mr. Millard faces charges of first-degree murder, forcible confinement and theft over $5,000 in the death of Mr. Bosma, who went missing after taking two men to test-drive his pickup truck on May 6. Mark Smich, 25, was also charged with first-degree murder.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/in-wake-of-dellen-millard-farm-search-police-to-update-probe-of-laura-babock-disappearance/article12332413/

ETA:

The first-degree murder charge is based on the forcible confinement allegations, Kavanagh said. The charge, often used in planned and premeditated murders, is also used when someone is killed while they are being forcibly confined.

“He entered that vehicle of his own free will, but he was not allowed to leave, therefore forcible confinement is the proper charge,” Kavanagh said when asked about the charge.

http://www2.macleans.ca/2013/05/15/first-degree-murder-charge-to-be-laid-in-test-drive-death-remains-badly-burned/


Does that help any Archangel?

Yes it does, thank you very much.

What's confusing is how the charges are worded in MSM. Is MS charged with murder as in 1st, 2nd or as in 1st degree because of a charge of death during theft/confinement too?

Trying to mine anything telling out of a little news is almost useless.

 

[SnooperDuper]

Yes it does, thank you very much.

What's confusing is how the charges are worded in MSM. Is MS charged with murder as in 1st, 2nd or as in 1st degree because of a charge of death during theft/confinement too?

Trying to mine anything telling out of a little news is almost useless.

Yes it is funny to me that MS was charged with 1st degree murder but not forcible confinement...when the forcible confinement charge is what led LE to charge DM with 1st degree murder. So does that mean MS is charged with 1st degree murder because he was with DM, or because LE believe that the crime was premeditated now, or...??? I spent some time searching the articles on MS's arrest and it seems LE gave no justification for the 1st degree murder charge: they just announced it and that was it

 

[Shaky pi]

Yes it is funny to me that MS was charged with 1st degree murder but not forcible confinement...when the forcible confinement charge is what led LE to charge DM with 1st degree murder. So does that mean MS is charged with 1st degree murder because he was with DM, or because LE believe that the crime was premeditated now, or...??? I spent some time searching the articles on MS's arrest and it seems LE gAVE no justification for the 1st degree murder charge: they just announced it and that was it

Ok. Sm not charged forcable confinement. if dm drivin. how did he confine. how did he kill tim. ..

 

[Sillybilly]

I'm worried about the Crown's ability to prove the specifics as it relates to the timing of the commencement of forcible confinement in relation to the actual time of the murder.

Depending on when the "confinement" is determined to have begun, it could constitute being part of the murder, as opposed to two separate events of confinement then murder. If a "required significant time lapse" cannot be established, it could be ruled that no confinement took place but was in fact just a component of the murder itself.

from:
http://www.canlii.org/eliisa/highli...uaWVyZS9scmMtMTk4NS1jLWMtNDYuaHRtbCNhcnQyNzkB

From the above, one one hand we have:

Preliminary Inquiry

[24] His Honour found no evidence of planning or deliberation to support a charge of first degree murder under s. 231(2) of the Criminal Code. He determined that the facts did not establish confinement under s. 279 of the Criminal Code and that the evidence did not establish the “required significant time lapse” between the assault of TR and Mr. Mason and the murder of the deceased under s. 231(5)(e) of the Code. Mr. Martin was therefore committed to stand trial on second degree murder and not first degree as charged.

On the other we have:

[75] The Manitoba Court of Appeal in R. v. Frank, supra, at para. 40 stated:

“There is no necessity that there be evidence of a sustained confinement over an extended period of time to support a finding of guilt on this charge. The trial judge articulated the nature of the confinement in this case, and I find no error by her. Confinement for any period of time, including the appellant’s dragging the complainant back from the ravine to the automobile, is unlawful confinement”. [Emphasis Added]

[76] Durno J. in R. v. Mullings, supra, at para. 40 and 41 stated:

“How long is “significant” cannot be determined by drawing a line in the sand. In R. v. Frank [2000] M.J. No. 528, the Manitoba Court of Appeal held there was no necessity that there be evidence of a sustained confinement over an extended period of time. Rather, confinement for any period of time is unlawful confinement. An example of a significant time period which could not have been long, is found in Kimberley, where the deceased was dragged 27 feet from an elevator to the place where she was murdered. It was of sufficient duration to sustain a finding of a discrete act separate from the murder”. [Emphasis Added]

 

[Blomquist]

A general question which may or may not have already been discussed here somewhere, does anyone know why DM's facebook profile is 'searchable' with the information of Oakville, when he in fact did not reside there, but MS did? Curious isn't it?

Yes, almost makes you wonder whether the real DM didnt have a Facebook account....Will the real Slim Shady please stand up !!!

 

[Kamille]

I understand what you are saying, but it does not make any difference if they speak. Speaking after DM is arrested is not going to make any difference, LE does not arrest you and then investigate what you have said.

Not speaking is the best thing a person like DM could do right now when a body was found on your property and the ram was found hidden at your mothers house.

If DM was questioned, that is where the alibi makes a difference and LE could try to clear you, but the body and hidden truck are too powerful. JMO

I see what you're saying also. The fact that DM chose not to say anything in the 15 hours or so after being brought in for questioning prior to being arrested and charged is the reason why we are not hearing anything now either. If he had professed his innocence from the get go, or requested his lawyer be present before he professed his innocence and indicated that he had no idea what the heck was going on, then it's possible we'd still be hearing that story from him now via his attorney. Especially if he had still been arrested even after being given the opportunity to have his attorney present during questioning and giving LE a solid alibi. Apparently he has not requested an interview with LE with his attorney present. His attorney has advised him to stay silent and that is what he chooses to do "for the long haul". But it's his choice and his alone. He had every right to say anything he wanted, he just chose not to. He still chooses not to, even in the face of all the negative commentary regarding him in the media and on social media. Although his attorney has made an attempt to discredit some of that.

Looking at the evidence that was found since his interrogation and subsequent arrest, it makes perfect sense why he chose to say nothing at the beginning and continues to maintain his silence. Because he likely knew what evidence was out there that could possibly be found and tied straight back to him. Which indicates that LE have likely arrested at least one correct person in this crime based on the witness accounts, the evidence found and his inability to clear himself with a solid alibi right from the beginning.

MOO