Syringe in bottle contained traces of chloroform

[panthera]

If KC used the syringe to fatally inject Caylee, and then put it inside a plastic bottle which then is put into a Disney bag... why on earth would you leave all of that sitting next to the body? It doesn't make any sense. Your fingerprints and DNA are all over that stuff. Why wouldn't you simply discard the Disney bag with the killing gear somewhere on the other side of town?

(bolding mine)

Because she's in line to be on "world's dumbest criminals" or she was in a big hurry to get anything connected with Caylee's death out of the car trunk. I'm still of the belief she almost got busted by dad when he was retrieving the gas cans. MOO

 

[ynotdivein]

If KC used the syringe to fatally inject Caylee, and then put it inside a plastic bottle which then is put into a Disney bag... why on earth would you leave all of that sitting next to the body? It doesn't make any sense. Your fingerprints and DNA are all over that stuff. Why wouldn't you simply discard the Disney bag with the killing gear somewhere on the other side of town?

I hear you. By the same token, if you are going to kill your own child, why would you leave her in your trunk for however long, then dump her less than a mile from the house? Maybe because you're hoping to frame someone, either the Vanishing Nanny or a male acquaintance?

Sorry, do not mean to be snarky. I just don't think we can, well, "think" our way into her head.

(And I look forward to hearing if the syringe was used to inject, or to extract a solution from the bottle. IF the syringe is related to this case at all. Which I think it is. Which again makes my brain hurt. Where is that giant bottle of aspirin?)

 

[panthera]

I can't come up with any reason that Casey would even use a syringe. Why would she go to all the extra trouble associated with giving a shot to a toddler when it would be so much easier to just have Caylee inhale it? Wouldn't she just be creating extra work for herself for no reason?

Yes, but she could have been under the assumption that merely inhaling the chloroform wouldn't cause death however injecting it directly into Caylee's bloodstream would do the job. MOO

 

[Pattymarie]

Long time lurker on this case (giant THANK YOU to all posters--my brain feels like it's been doing some advanced form of yoga...). Will try to keep this post focused & not repeat too much as I think this out loud:

1. In terms of direct tangible evidence, there is no direct link between Gatorade bottle/syringe/contents and Casey, no fingerprints etc. At least not that we know of yet.
2. Bottle/syringe contents are among several coincidental appearances of "chloroform" in this case.
3. Written notes on doc dumps indicate some LE interest in chloroform levels related to this case.
3. Casey had several different means of acquiring a syringe which could include either or both testosterone and chloroform, such as the syringe which was found 1 foot from her dead child's skull.
4. The remains were scattered. I seem to recall that the head and torso were in one location with various extremities moved away from that site. (God I hate to even type that.) IF these items turn out to be in fact related then it either both were dumped at the same time, or that the killer returned to same scene to dump bottle containing potentially-incriminating-to-hoped-for-scapegoat-JR syringe later... OR that the items are unrelated and the bottle either pre-dated the placement of the body, or post-dated it and whoever dumped the bottle failed to report anything suspicious...

Posters have questioned whether Casey was the sort of person to return a needle to its cap, then bag it, then put it in a bottle, THEN dump same in the same area as Caylee's body. I think yes, if only because she would not have wanted to stick herself with said needle.

I have heard from more than one friend in LE that when it comes to solving crimes, the simplest answer is usually THE answer. I wish there were more simple answers here. And I appreciate all your work in sorting through this tangled ball of possibilities!

I can't imagine that LE would release this without further evidence linking it to Casey....I think this is finally the beginning to the end.... slam dunk

 

[JWG]

Maybe this Disney bag of trash was left in the woods in 2007 or earlier. Do any of the reports say that it was placed in the woods in June 2008? If this trash is very old, there won't be fingerprints or DNA.

Could be that it was dumped before Caylee. Best I can tell thus far (and still more looking to do) the bottle was discovered within the Disney bag just a couple of feet or less from Caylee's head...er...skull. No photos released of the bag in-situ because such photos included the remains.

 

[Valhall]

Just wondering...:waitasec:

Why did the official FBI report (not the many, many notes) mention only the four testosterone components and not the chloroform? Could it be that they did not find the chloroform to be significant?

Just asking.

Well, I think that's what we're all asking. I do not find that chloroform was detected at a reportable level ANYWHERE in the 1700+ pages released yesterday. The only place it shows up is on this overall summary table.

http://www.thehinkymeter.com/images/CMA/chemicalsummary.jpg

Now, tell me something, JWG...do you see something suspicious about the two lines I have marked on that screencap?

 

[missyjane77]

It has always been used as an inhaled vapor. Can you provide any medical study or reference that it has ever been used in a therapeutic environment in Injectable form?

PubMed is your friend. I work in a research lab at a top 10 medical school. I know what I do with chloroform. Thank you. Have a nice day.

 

[Hot Dogs]

Duct tape fingerprints? I thought that had not been established. If there are no prints anywhere, she took precautions.

I was thinking something else. I have no reason to think she wore gloves to prevent prints at any time. All of that stuff sat in the swamp for 6 months before being analyzed. It would be a miracle if any fingerprints were found on anything. The weather and organisms just eat away at that as well as the DNA. It was stupid luck that prevented that body from being found right away. She left it quite near the house, and it was all in a bright white laundry bag just sitting on the ground. Right next to a path that people use to go into the woods. Yeah, you had to pass through a vine curtain first but lots of people went in there. Where do you think all of that trash came from?

 

[Valhall]

Could be that it was dumped before Caylee. Best I can tell thus far (and still more looking to do) the bottle was discovered within the Disney bag just a couple of feet or less from Caylee's head...er...skull. No photos released of the bag in-situ because such photos included the remains.

It may have been further than that. The best description I can find places it from 4 to 16 feet to the northwest of the skull. The bag (with the rest of the remains) was to the southwest of the skull.

 

[lizzysf]

In examining both sides of the "what if" coin.. I think we need to question why the Body Farm's conclusion that the body was in the trunk 2.6 days (which I never believed)..has now been contradicted by the entomology report. The Body Farm, Dr. Vass, in the same report, concluded that there were high levels of Chloroform in the trunk. He also stated in an email that releasing the Chloroform results to the public was a mistake. Do we have an inaccurate trunk Chloroform conclusion as well?
It is very hard to sort out, given the computer search on 'how to make Chloroform' and the muddy as of yet report of Chloroform in the syringe/Gatorade bottle. This is all a bit bothersome.

 

[Crabcake23]

The syringe and the bottle both had the steroid stack in them. The syringe had ethanol. But it did not register for chloroform.

Okay, so can we deduce that she used the chloroform via inhaling to knock her out, taped her face up and then shot her with an OD of steroids? Enough to kill? This may explain why she was able to inject a wiggly 2 year old, because she was knocked out.

 

[Valhall]

Okay, so can we deduce that she used the chloroform via inhaling to knock her out, taped her face up and then shot her with an OD of steroids? Enough to kill? This may explain why she was able to inject a wiggly 2 year old, because she was knocked out.

I'm more inclined to believe the gatorade bottle and syringe have absolutely nothing to do with either Caylee or Casey.

 

[JWG]

Well, I think that's what we're all asking. I do not find that chloroform was detected at a reportable level ANYWHERE in the 1700+ pages released yesterday. The only place it shows up is on this overall summary table.

http://www.thehinkymeter.com/images/CMA/chemicalsummary.jpg

Now, tell me something, JWG...do you see something suspicious about the two lines I have marked on that screencap?

Val, I am way older than you, meaning you are way faster than me. I noticed the ethanol with chloroform, but am not getting your drift. I would assume both were significant contributors to the overall chemical composition, but the testosterone components seemed to have ruled the day.

Sorry I am late to the game here. I was out yesterday. And now, well, I have had a martini ... :martini:

 

[ChasingMoxie]

Bumping an old post of mine that may be relevant again. Sorry if this isn't apropos, I'm running WAY behind in reading this thread. HTH

(Bolded by me.)

According to the following link, which details polyethylene material resistance to numerous chemicals and chemical compounds, a Gatorade bottle (if polyethylene terephthalate responds the same as polyethylene) is NOT resistant to chloroform.

http://www.basell.com/portal/binary...+Guide.pdf-8214644632145193531&extension=.pdf

I got the Gatorade bottle composition from here: http://wardmulroy.com/gatorade/DOCS/1/content(9).html

Is it obvious that I'm avoiding working right now?

 

[Valhall]

Look at the two lines and compare them. They are either a copy/paste or an auto-complete on a spreadsheet entry.

I think the 240.1.1 entry should have read Ethanol...period.

There's even an extra space between Ethanol and the semi-colon on both lines.

 

[Valhall]

And how the hell can you be way older than me? Are you drawing social security? Because if the answer is no, i don't think you're "WAY" older than me.

 

[Crabcake23]

I'm more inclined to believe the gatorade bottle and syringe have absolutely nothing to do with either Caylee or Casey.

Really? What am I missing, help me out. I think I'm on doc dump overload, my mind is fried.

 

[Valhall]

Really? What am I missing, help me out. I think I'm on doc dump overload, my mind is fried.

I think they're just trash and unrelated to Caylee's death.

 

[JWG]

I'm more inclined to believe the gatorade bottle and syringe have absolutely nothing to do with either Caylee or Casey.

KC (I refuse to spell her name) is the most unlucky criminal ...

After doing computer searches on chloroform, she tossed her dead daughter almost on top of a bottle containing chloroform and a syringe.

The body and bag land at a property point between two owners/renters who have names that correspond to the fictitious kidnapper.

Some random person named "zenaida" without a FL driver's license creates a myspace page on the same day Casey dispatches her "problem" and logs into it for the very last time after Casey is "dispatched" to jail.

 

[Imbackon]

Look at the two lines and compare them. They are either a copy/paste or an auto-complete on a spreadsheet entry.

I think the 240.1.1 entry should have read Ethanol...period.

There's even an extra space between Ethanol and the semi-colon on both lines.

I don't think copy/paste explains it. Note that the entire column has wording that has been centered even. Not like it was left over data from a previous document imho.