"Tape Recorder Man"
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Sure. Go to Wikipedia and find the Lyon Sisters article. It's there.
EDIT: Or maybe not... That article has been heavily edited since the last time I saw it. But you can find the conposite I'm sure just by reading the threads here or googling key terms like "lyon sisters" and "TRM" and doing an image search.
TRM as described by Eyewitness "Jimmy"
Here is "Jimmy's" story about the Tape Recorder Man as related to Mary Ann Kuhn of the Washington Star News Paper and printed 3 April 1975 - 40 years ago.
The complete article is in post #2 on the first page of this thread.
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Jimmy:
"It was about 1 or 2 o'clock." Jimmy related. "I was out with a friend. We were down near ... um ... Peoples (Drug Store) and the Orange Bowl (pizza carryout) and we saw the two girls talking to a man with a tape recorder."
"I heard the man ask one question: ' Are any of you two involved in sports?'"
"And then ... um ... 30 seconds later I looked back. He was walking away toward Wards (Montgomery Ward) and the girls were walking the other way toward the fountain."
"I said to my friend, 'Hey, look over there. I wonder what's going on. It looks like a reporter.' We thought he was some kind of a reporter," Jimmy explained. "We were joking around that maybe we should go over there and get him to interview us."
"The man was holding a microphone in his hand between the girls, and asking questions. He had a tan briefcase on the ground. It was one of those hard ones that sat up." the boy said, adding that the tape recorder was sitting next to the man, out of the briefcase.
The man was sitting on the ledge next to an island of (illegible word - bushes?) in the middle of the plaza, Jimmy said. People sit on the ledge to rest during their shopping sprees or to eat a snack or pizza from the carryout.
Jimmy said he had never seen the man before or since. He said the man was well dressed in a brown suit.
Jimmy, who lives several blocks from the Lyons said he and his friend rode their bikes up to the plaza that day "to see friends. We just went up there to ride around. We had nothing else to do so we decided to go up there and look around."
Jimmy's mother said that right after the news came out that the Lyon girls were missing, her son told her he had seen them at the plaza. But it wasn't until Friday that he mentioned anything about the man with a tape recorder, she said.
"On Friday, he said that the girls were talking to a reporter. I said, 'How do you know he was a reporter?' He said because he had a microphone. I told him that could have been anybody and notified police."
At the police station on Friday, Jimmy said, the police "had me look through two files of mug shots."
(The beginning of the next sentence seems to have been left out of the printed article)
... in a while, a police officer would ask me if everything was all right (with the sketch). I'd tell them what was right and what was wrong." Jimmy said he thought the sketch was a good likeness. His mother said he was at the police station 2 1/2 hours that day.
Jimmy's friend who was with him the day the Lyon girls were seen with the man at the plaza verified virtually everything Jimmy said except that he said he did not hear any of the conversation between the man and the girls.
"I hope they find them." Jimmy said.
Here is "Jimmy's" story about the Tape Recorder Man as related to Mary Ann Kuhn of the Washington Star News Paper and printed 3 April 1975 - 40 years ago.
The complete article is in post #2 on the first page of this thread.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jimmy:
"It was about 1 or 2 o'clock." Jimmy related. "I was out with a friend. We were down near ... um ... Peoples (Drug Store) and the Orange Bowl (pizza carryout) and we saw the two girls talking to a man with a tape recorder."
"I heard the man ask one question: ' Are any of you two involved in sports?'"
"And then ... um ... 30 seconds later I looked back. He was walking away toward Wards (Montgomery Ward) and the girls were walking the other way toward the fountain."
"I said to my friend, 'Hey, look over there. I wonder what's going on. It looks like a reporter.' We thought he was some kind of a reporter," Jimmy explained. "We were joking around that maybe we should go over there and get him to interview us."
"The man was holding a microphone in his hand between the girls, and asking questions. He had a tan briefcase on the ground. It was one of those hard ones that sat up." the boy said, adding that the tape recorder was sitting next to the man, out of the briefcase.
The man was sitting on the ledge next to an island of (illegible word - bushes?) in the middle of the plaza, Jimmy said. People sit on the ledge to rest during their shopping sprees or to eat a snack or pizza from the carryout.
Jimmy said he had never seen the man before or since. He said the man was well dressed in a brown suit.
Jimmy, who lives several blocks from the Lyons said he and his friend rode their bikes up to the plaza that day "to see friends. We just went up there to ride around. We had nothing else to do so we decided to go up there and look around."
Jimmy's mother said that right after the news came out that the Lyon girls were missing, her son told her he had seen them at the plaza. But it wasn't until Friday that he mentioned anything about the man with a tape recorder, she said.
"On Friday, he said that the girls were talking to a reporter. I said, 'How do you know he was a reporter?' He said because he had a microphone. I told him that could have been anybody and notified police."
At the police station on Friday, Jimmy said, the police "had me look through two files of mug shots."
(The beginning of the next sentence seems to have been left out of the printed article)
... in a while, a police officer would ask me if everything was all right (with the sketch). I'd tell them what was right and what was wrong." Jimmy said he thought the sketch was a good likeness. His mother said he was at the police station 2 1/2 hours that day.
Jimmy's friend who was with him the day the Lyon girls were seen with the man at the plaza verified virtually everything Jimmy said except that he said he did not hear any of the conversation between the man and the girls.
"I hope they find them." Jimmy said.
siriunsun
Former Member
If this person was involved, there will hopefully be some evidence connecting him to the girls when everything found on the mountain is processed.
The evidence connecting the Tape Recorder Man to the girls is eyewitness testimony described in the above quoted article.
He was described by the two boys and a composite sketch made. Many other people came forward to state that they had seen someone they believed to be the same man in other shopping malls on other dates, but he was never positively identified.
Whether or not the Tape Recorder Man actually was responsible for, or involved with their disappearance has never been proven.
It is known that Lloyd Welch saw the TRM Sketch when it was first published in news papers on 1 April 1975, because the WMAL Reward Offer that he wanted to call in about was in the same papers that day.
MrMustardinthestudy
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I've often wondered if TRM is the ultimate red herring--a skeevy guy who enjoyed taping the voices of young kids for unsavory purposes. Imagine the day he opened the paper to see that his likeness and proclivities had been linked to the sisters' disappearance from the mall--the last thing he'd want to do is come forward to the police and admit that he got his jollies taping the voices of children. What if the police suspected him of more? Even if he was innocent of abducting or harming the girls he'd likely never come forward (and never be seen tape recording children again).
I always thought the same thing because TRM broke off contact with the Lyon sisters and other kids on a few other days. To me it did not seem like TRM had a plan to talk kids into anything more. And if TRM had a plan for abduction and murder, being seen with a tape recorder, fairly novel and noticeable in 1975, was not a very good plan.
Of course it's always possible, that TRM could not resist temptation, and came back for the Lyon sisters.
It's always possible that TRM's plan was more of some seduction and something went wrong leading to murder.
Likewise, it's always possible that TRM was part of some group of child abusers.
But the simplest explanation is that he was likely one of few independent to each other men (Lloyd was 18 at the time) who was into younger kids who saw the cute girls at the plaza that day, most of whom were able to keep their sex desires at the just looking or talking level.
But just in case TRM man or some other man was responsible, I hope the police got all the information they could out of Lloyd before naming him as a person of interest.
I remember some time ago, I wrote where this was a regular occurrence during the late seventies, early eighties where I lived. There was always either men or women at the malls with a tape recorder taking surveys. I too believe that the TRM could be a red herring. But, it's good to check either way.
TRM in Context 25 March 1975
I have mentioned many times that the Tape Recorder Man (TRM) could have been a number of different things that day.
Just taking that one incident in isolation, he could indeed have been a harmless old guy who was playing with a new tape recorder to see how it worked. It could have been pure coincidence that he, along with several thousand other folks were just enjoying a nice day at the mall.
However, when considering his presence and his actions in context, he becomes a potential suspect in the case. He was one of the last persons actually known to have been in contact with Sheila and Kate.
When they went missing, so did he. He walked away from them heading in the direction of Wards and was never seen again with his tape recorder.
Then consider the many other persons who came forward to describe the actions of a person they believed to be the same man on previous occasions - at Wheaton Plaza and in at least four other area shopping malls. In every case, a TRM was seen talking to and bothering young children and girls.
He was NOT doing a legitimate survey, but specifically targeting children.
Police stated that at least 15 persons had come forward with these reports in the first day after the TRM story came out in the news on 1 April 1975. All agreed that the composite was a good likeness to the man they saw and only a few offered slight changes to the origional drawing. Each was interviewed separately by police and each of these different witnesses tended to corroborate the statements of the others.
A person fitting TRM's description and actions with a tape recorder was seen at:
- White Oak shopping center near the entrance to Sears in February 1975 speaking to a red haired young teen girl holding a basketball.
- Wheaton Plaza in February 1975 trying to talk to two young toddlers in the presence of their mother.
- Again the next day at Wheaton Plaza trying to "interview" children.
- At Iverson Mall, at Marlow Heights Shopping Center, and at Bowie shopping center (all in Prince Georges County, MD) on Saturday, 22 March 1975 attempting to get young girls to read a telephone answering message into his tape recorder from a hand printed index card.
- And he was seen at Wheaton Plaza by three employees on Monday 24 March 1975 with his tape recorder the day before the Lyon girls went missing.
So, this guy, TRM (or his body double), was seen by a number of witnesses prior to being sighted by "Jimmy" and his friend at Wheaton Plaza on Tuesday 25 March 1975. He was very active before the disappearance, but never seen again (as TRM) IMMEDIATELY afterward.
I feel that his activities were far from "innocent" or "normal", and of a highly suspicious nature when considered in context. Certainly, if this guy were to have seen his likeness in the paper or on TV, he MIGHT have wanted to ditch his TRM persona, but he actually stopped being TRM a FULL WEEK before the news got the story. What caused him to drop the TRM act?
He had been in the area for at least a month before the girls went missing. Why did he NOT come forward to explain his actions and clear himself if he was not involved in their disappearance?
I have mentioned many times that the Tape Recorder Man (TRM) could have been a number of different things that day.
Just taking that one incident in isolation, he could indeed have been a harmless old guy who was playing with a new tape recorder to see how it worked. It could have been pure coincidence that he, along with several thousand other folks were just enjoying a nice day at the mall.
However, when considering his presence and his actions in context, he becomes a potential suspect in the case. He was one of the last persons actually known to have been in contact with Sheila and Kate.
When they went missing, so did he. He walked away from them heading in the direction of Wards and was never seen again with his tape recorder.
Then consider the many other persons who came forward to describe the actions of a person they believed to be the same man on previous occasions - at Wheaton Plaza and in at least four other area shopping malls. In every case, a TRM was seen talking to and bothering young children and girls.
He was NOT doing a legitimate survey, but specifically targeting children.
Police stated that at least 15 persons had come forward with these reports in the first day after the TRM story came out in the news on 1 April 1975. All agreed that the composite was a good likeness to the man they saw and only a few offered slight changes to the origional drawing. Each was interviewed separately by police and each of these different witnesses tended to corroborate the statements of the others.
A person fitting TRM's description and actions with a tape recorder was seen at:
- White Oak shopping center near the entrance to Sears in February 1975 speaking to a red haired young teen girl holding a basketball.
- Wheaton Plaza in February 1975 trying to talk to two young toddlers in the presence of their mother.
- Again the next day at Wheaton Plaza trying to "interview" children.
- At Iverson Mall, at Marlow Heights Shopping Center, and at Bowie shopping center (all in Prince Georges County, MD) on Saturday, 22 March 1975 attempting to get young girls to read a telephone answering message into his tape recorder from a hand printed index card.
- And he was seen at Wheaton Plaza by three employees on Monday 24 March 1975 with his tape recorder the day before the Lyon girls went missing.
So, this guy, TRM (or his body double), was seen by a number of witnesses prior to being sighted by "Jimmy" and his friend at Wheaton Plaza on Tuesday 25 March 1975. He was very active before the disappearance, but never seen again (as TRM) IMMEDIATELY afterward.
I feel that his activities were far from "innocent" or "normal", and of a highly suspicious nature when considered in context. Certainly, if this guy were to have seen his likeness in the paper or on TV, he MIGHT have wanted to ditch his TRM persona, but he actually stopped being TRM a FULL WEEK before the news got the story. What caused him to drop the TRM act?
He had been in the area for at least a month before the girls went missing. Why did he NOT come forward to explain his actions and clear himself if he was not involved in their disappearance?
TedMac
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BBM If he was involved in the abductions, he stayed away for obvious reasons. Just a guess here...But, if he wasn't involved, maybe he learned of the kidnappings from the news stories and realized that he had aroused suspicion and perhaps would be suspected to be the abductor or at a minimum be connected to it somehow? By staying away, he could avoid having to go through the interviews, polygraphs, interrogations, etc. all the while hoping the girls would be found safe.
Has it ever been determined what he specifically said to the kids-especially the girls? Did he say anything inappropriate or suggest some of them meet him outside, at his car, etc? Just curious what he may or may not have said to them. I totally agree his activities were not normal or innocent and may very well somehow been involved in the girls' disappearance. MOO
From the first page of the this thread:
Jimmy the child witness to the tape recorder man told the Washington Star:
"I heard the man ask one question: "Are any of you two involved in sports?'"
Richard is the TRM expert, but I can't recall any other TRM quotes or reliable suggestions that he said anything inappropriate. Prior to the Lyon sisters disappearing, I don't think he said anything or tried anything that lead to anyone going to the police. Of course there was much speculation after the Lyon sisters disappeared. There was one second-hand, online report that someone who saw him at White Oak Plaza, five miles or so from Wheaton Plaza, thought he was a pervert or words to that effect.
RichardLewis
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simplifymylife2014
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Was it after March 25, 1975 that someone posted they saw a strange man at Congressional Plaza in Rockville, MD?
RichardLewis said:
Some of the witnesses who stated that they had seen a man with a tape recorder speaking with young girls and children said that they felt what he was doing was inappropriate or weird. But nobody had reported him - or if they did, nothing was done about it prior to 25 March 1975. After all, talking to someone with a tape recorder and microphone in hand was not illegal.
I have not heard that the self confessed Prince Georges County Tape Recorder Man (TRM2) was photographed or if so that his photo was showed to any of the witnesses who had claimed to see TRM at ANY of the malls. In fact, I know of at least two of those witnesses who state that they were NOT re-interviewed or shown any such photos.
The statements by one witness who claimed to have seen TRM at Wheaton Plaza and at White Oak Shopping Center indicated that he felt the man was doing something improper, and his suspicions were confirmed when he heard of the Lyon sisters going missing and having been seen with such a man.
As I mentioned in my earlier post, regardless of what this self confessor stated, or who he was, the Tape Recorder Man seen talking to the two Lyon sisters remained unidentified and unexplained.
Thanks for the reminder that Jeb was the WS poster, in 2009, on his 1975 encounters with the Montgomery County TRM:
In 2009, Jeb posted:
"I talked to a cold case detective recently, & was told that they don't Think Coffey snatched the Lyon Girls. I replyed that the TRM I saw looked a Hell of a lot like Coffey, & that you'd almost have to say that the TRM was not involved either. He indicated at this point, maybe TRM did not do it. I personally think they're wrong, but they are the investigators, & have learned more about the case than what I know."
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...ot-Tape-Recorder-Man-quot/page3&highlight=Jeb
I am skeptical of identifications after the person (Fred Coffey) was identified in the paper, but this author also claimed a "striking resemblance" to TRM
https://books.google.com/books?id=F...#v=onepage&q=fred coffey lyon sisters&f=false
This might all be academic if DNA has identified remains in VA.