That bowl of pineapple again

[Tawny]

Wait, I forgot, I also carry my own bowl in my kit.

 

[Charterhouse]

So that is where they got the amount for the ransom, Bank Statement. They were very clever.
Nice to have a selection of fruit also. You never know what children will like.

 

[borndem]

It's like when my kid lies about something seemingly insignificant, saying "No, I don't need to go potty" and then she wets herself, as I knew she would, she then blames the pee all over her pants on her stuffed bear. Right, Bear peed on you. Got it.

I'd definitely bring my own box of tissues. I mean, what if I got a cold mid-kidnapping and they had CHEAP tissues? Ugh, the raw nose would be unbearable.

bbm
Absolutely, Tawny -- "Never leave home without them."

One little box of good-quality tissue would surely, Shirley, fit in that U-Haul van...

I just couldn't resist...

 

[borndem]

So we have:

the coroner saying that it may be pineapple
LS saying that it is pineapple
ST saying that it is pineapple, consistent down to the rind with the pineapple in the bowl from the R home

Is it a duck?

:rubberducky: = :rubberducky:


:thumb:

 

[borndem]

Did Patsy literally ever say there was no pineapple in the home or just that she didn't feed it to her or put it in that bowl? I thought her using or even repeating the words "feed it to her" was odd.

Well, txsvicki, I'll just say it...

The phrase, "I didn't feed it to her," was not a lie. She or JR or BR got the pineapple out for JB -- and I think it was done pretty soon after the R's got home, of course.

If it indeed was a "too big" bowl and the family silver (sterling, I guess, only to be used for special occasions -- at least that's the way it is in most homes -- seems like I remember PR saying it was the good silver, or something similar, IIRC), then BR or JR may have done it -- not being as familiar with where to find a properly-sized bowl or an everyday spoon (or fork - I can't remember which).

And yes, the wording was odd -- as were, as you'll prolly agree, so many other things that the R's said, that is, whenever they did say something.

 

[midwest mama]

Well, he didn't get to do his puzzles because he was too busy rummaging for examples of PR's handwriting to copy.

Or, going about the house and gathering photos of JB, at least one of which was one doing something "cutesy", then taking them to the basement laundry area to drool over while he waited instead of working on those puzzles. Unless, of course he instead got absorbed in reading through that trade journal he probably also had tucked into his kidnapsack which showed the glowing JR pictured beside a couple of other corporate successfuls, just cause he wanted to leave it to show that he really did like the man whose "bussiness" he respected (even though he didn't like the country it represented). He had even drawn a red heart around John and crossed through the other guys so someone would be sure to realize that it was because he liked John so well he would need to only ask for $118,000 in exchange for him returning his darling daughter, since having his jollies with her would be more than enough reward before she got home safely. And then, once home, for so little money, they would just forgive him and everyone could get back to business as usual and getting on with their lives.

But then, who would have figured she'd end up screaming after discovering the "elf" that Santa had sent to get her and take her down to the basement to meet him with more surprises was actually going to try to stuff her into a suitcase so he could make a getaway through the basement window and then appear to be only a guest leaving a house after the holiday if any of the neighbors might have seen someone leaving and putting a suitcase into a car.

Imagine, an intruder who thought of all those things and didn't allow for a child to scream at the prospect of being snatched away from her house on Christmas night! And then decided he'd just have to show her how stupid she had been, before he would simply cover all his tracks and just disappear back into the night from whence he came. The original money game plan transformed into another money game, and here we all are, 17 years later trying to make sense out of a crime that will forever stand as one of the most baffling and senseless crimes of all time.

 

[Tawny]

kidnapsack!! :floorlaughing:

 

[tezi]

kidnapsack!! :floorlaughing:

That is funny!!!!! LOLOL

 

[Venom]

Or, going about the house and gathering photos of JB, at least one of which was one doing something "cutesy", then taking them to the basement laundry area to drool over while he waited instead of working on those puzzles. Unless, of course he instead got absorbed in reading through that trade journal he probably also had tucked into his kidnapsack which showed the glowing JR pictured beside a couple of other corporate successfuls, just cause he wanted to leave it to show that he really did like the man whose "bussiness" he respected (even though he didn't like the country it represented). He had even drawn a red heart around John and crossed through the other guys so someone would be sure to realize that it was because he liked John so well he would need to only ask for $118,000 in exchange for him returning his darling daughter, since having his jollies with her would be more than enough reward before she got home safely. And then, once home, for so little money, they would just forgive him and everyone could get back to business as usual and getting on with their lives.

But then, who would have figured she'd end up screaming after discovering the "elf" that Santa had sent to get her and take her down to the basement to meet him with more surprises was actually going to try to stuff her into a suitcase so he could make a getaway through the basement window and then appear to be only a guest leaving a house after the holiday if any of the neighbors might have seen someone leaving and putting a suitcase into a car.

Imagine, an intruder who thought of all those things and didn't allow for a child to scream at the prospect of being snatched away from her house on Christmas night! And then decided he'd just have to show her how stupid she had been, before he would simply cover all his tracks and just disappear back into the night from whence he came. The original money game plan transformed into another money game, and here we all are, 17 years later trying to make sense out of a crime that will forever stand as one of the most baffling and senseless crimes of all time.

You forgot that he had to tell the spiders to hurry up and weave some webs.

 

[MeanDonnaJean]

I don't know about you all, but in my kidnapping kit are the following:

Tissues
Paper bag with rope (I can't be expected to carry it without the paper bag. What would I do, drape the loops over my shoulder like a peasant?)
Tape
Cantaloupe
Sweater matching the victim's mother's sweater
Gloves but only for touching the victim, I'll take them off to write my ransom novella and then wipe the pen clean and put it back in the pen holder (Why would I bring my OWN PEN?)
Puzzles to do while waiting for the family to return home
Cord, even though I also have rope (can't have too many options)
Pillow and blankie to nap while waiting
Baklava
Snacks

You musta been a girl scout. Always thoroughly prepared

 

[tezi]

You forgot that he had to tell the spiders to hurry up and weave some webs.

He was probably helping the spiders weave said webs...LOL

 

[otg]

You forgot that he had to tell the spiders to hurry up and weave some webs.

He was probably helping the spiders weave said webs...LOL

Reminds me of a great line from the movie Calamity Jane... When Calamity (Doris Day) is going through the belongings of a city girl (who is getting all the men's attention) she finds a pair of silk stockings. She holds them up and says, "Look at these! Silk, pure silk! I'll bet her mother spun 'em!" :floorlaugh:

 

[midwest mama]

He was probably helping the spiders weave said webs...LOL

Yes, because time was running out and he had to spend too much time scouting around for their hibernation spot so he could wake them up and send them into the window frame to work their spin magic. Only right thing to do was to pitch in and give them a hand.ropeller:

 

[midwest mama]

Happened to have Steve Wilko show on the other afternoon while doing some paperwork. Funny thing is, I rarely watch that show...just kept the channel tuned in the background after catching some earlier news.

But one of the topics being addressed was the possibility of a mother over-drugging her baby with melatonin and killing him. (A lie detector showed she did NOT give her baby melatonin). But it prompted me to wonder, since JR mentioned taking melatonin to sleep that night, about lacing JB's pineapple with melatonin! Stupid me if this has been discussed ad nauseum previously on WS, but it prompted me to google the chances of melatonin being detected in tox screens. No...because it is a natural occuring substance, so has to be seen as normal in anything tested from the body.

I have to think IF the pineapple was even tested looking specifically for melatonin, it would have to be discounted since there would have been saliva and stomach juices involved, and they would register melatonin as a naturally occuring body substance. Now, the interesting comment that caught my ear on the show was this: If an adult dose of melatonin is administered to a child, it can easily result in almost an overdose situation since the pill stimulates the gland in the body to produce more natural melatonin, contributing to the sleeping pill effect.

Now, for the life of me, I could never figure out why a man who had to be sure to wake up very early to go and help fly his own plane to Minneapolis would have zonked himself with melatonin.....possibly leaving a "sleep hangover" effect the next morning.

I don't know.....with the opinion I have of JR's psychological health being already badly damaged at the time of JB's death, I have to wonder if the melatonin thing was some sort of twisted "tell" as a means to cover any tracks that he worried might be discovered.

 

[Tawny]

Melatonin does not result in grogginess and it's very difficult, if not impossible, to overdose on it in a way that causes death. It would take cups of it to cause that kind of reaction.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using Tapatalk 2

 

[tezi]

Yes, because time was running out and he had to spend too much time scouting around for their hibernation spot so he could wake them up and send them into the window frame to work their spin magic. Only right thing to do was to pitch in and give them a hand.ropeller:

BBM: Yes, "our intruder" is all about helping everyone and everything including the spiders do their job! LOL:floorlaugh:

 

[Nom de plume]

Happened to have Steve Wilko show on the other afternoon while doing some paperwork. Funny thing is, I rarely watch that show...just kept the channel tuned in the background after catching some earlier news.

But one of the topics being addressed was the possibility of a mother over-drugging her baby with melatonin and killing him. (A lie detector showed she did NOT give her baby melatonin). But it prompted me to wonder, since JR mentioned taking melatonin to sleep that night, about lacing JB's pineapple with melatonin! Stupid me if this has been discussed ad nauseum previously on WS, but it prompted me to google the chances of melatonin being detected in tox screens. No...because it is a natural occuring substance, so has to be seen as normal in anything tested from the body.

I have to think IF the pineapple was even tested looking specifically for melatonin, it would have to be discounted since there would have been saliva and stomach juices involved, and they would register melatonin as a naturally occuring body substance. Now, the interesting comment that caught my ear on the show was this: If an adult dose of melatonin is administered to a child, it can easily result in almost an overdose situation since the pill stimulates the gland in the body to produce more natural melatonin, contributing to the sleeping pill effect.

Now, for the life of me, I could never figure out why a man who had to be sure to wake up very early to go and help fly his own plane to Minneapolis would have zonked himself with melatonin.....possibly leaving a "sleep hangover" effect the next morning.

I don't know.....with the opinion I have of JR's psychological health being already badly damaged at the time of JB's death, I have to wonder if the melatonin thing was some sort of twisted "tell" as a means to cover any tracks that he worried might be discovered.

Interesting thought MM. Personally, I've never believed the melatonin story. It's just too convenient for JR that he was knocked out cold all night long. Also, he really needed to be clear headed very early the next morning so anything taken the night before would likely still be in his system. Not a great idea for a pilot, or co-pilot.

If he were worried about melatonin being detected in JB's system, wouldn't mentioning that he took it just make him look even more suspicious? Or are you thinking he's trying to explain its presence in the house?

 

[txsvicki]

Melatonin never made me sleepy. I think it's worthless, but have read that it makes some people go to sleep easier and sleep better.

 

[midwest mama]

Interesting thought MM. Personally, I've never believed the melatonin story. It's just too convenient for JR that he was knocked out cold all night long. Also, he really needed to be clear headed very early the next morning so anything taken the night before would likely still be in his system. Not a great idea for a pilot, or co-pilot.

If he were worried about melatonin being detected in JB's system, wouldn't mentioning that he took it just make him look even more suspicious? Or are you thinking he's trying to explain its presence in the house?

From what I understand after googling, even if it is tested for and found in the system, melatonin is not considered a red flag because it is naturally produced by the body from the body's own glands. Here's some info about using it: (italics and underlines mine, to support why JR might have wanted to use it)

"from Brent A. Bauer, M.D.

The hormone melatonin helps control your natural sleep-wake cycle. Natural levels of melatonin in the blood are highest at night. Some research suggests that melatonin supplements might be helpful in treating jet lag or reducing the time it takes to fall asleep — although the effect is typically mild. Melatonin might be more effective for other types of sleep issues, such as delayed sleep disorder or sleep disorders affecting circadian rhythm.

The most common melatonin side effects include:

Daytime sleepiness
Dizziness
Headaches
Other, less common melatonin side effects might include abdominal discomfort, mild anxiety, irritability, confusion and short-lasting feelings of depression.


BBM: with a flight ahead, and also JR stating in later interviews and books that he was battling depression due to losing Beth, it makes me wonder why he thought it safe enough to use Melatonin as a sleep aid - unless he didn't pay attention to label warnings about side effects, which, admittedly, is a common practice of most of us.

I assume JR informed LE that he took Melatonin for 2 purposes: in order to make it more believable that he fell asleep quickly and hard enough not to hear the dastardly Intruder, AND also to validate it's purpose for being in the house. Thing is, even if it was found in the house during a later search, I wonder if LE would have even questioned it, since it is not a prescription drug, and used commonly for jet-lag as well as a sleep aid for adults. JR would have every reason to keep it on hand with as much international flying as he had been doing and needing to keep his sleep cycles regulated once home again.

There is some web info out there about using Melatonin on children under the care of a physician for ADHD and autism to assist their night-time clocks into natural production, though kids are said to produce more of the hormone on their own than adults, and it is advised not to give it to kids under the age of 10.

 

[Tawny]

Melatonin never made me sleepy. I think it's worthless, but have read that it makes some people go to sleep easier and sleep better.

I've heard the same from a few other people I know. I take it and it works fast and doesn't make me all groggy the next day the way diphenhydramine (tylenolPM, etc) does.