BeanE
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and that it was prior to his disappearance
The Actual Facts... What hard evidence is there against Terri?
- Thread starter Wings Of Light
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and that it was prior to his disappearance
BeanE
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Of course to all 3 questions.
There's a difference between whether one or more LEOs and/or DA believe someone, and whether they are collectively entertaining the idea of using that person as a witness. Sometimes LE has proof, and they still don't believe the person (reference Venus Stewart case regarding Doug Stewart's alibi). The question is not whether they believe the landscaper, the question is whether they can put him on the stand, and if so, how well he can stand up to the impeachment process.
It's a sad but true fact of our system.
See above irt LE. IRT Kaine, he didn't believe the landscaper. He believed what LE told him. I would too. Wouldn't you? I would absolutely freak, grab my baby, run, and ask questions later. Much later. I think most people would do the same.
SurfieTX
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Thanks for clarifying that, BeanE. It's interesting that we heard about the landscaper testifying at the GJ, but not MC.
gliving
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From an article posted today:
Margaret Paris, dean of the University of Oregon Law School, says it seems as if the release of certain details through Kyron's parents and court filings is a tool police and prosecutors are using to "turn up the heat" on people they believe are hiding information, or pressuring people to come forward.
"It might be a borderline situation, where there isn't anything that expressly makes it wrong," Paris said. "But, assuming there's eventually an indictment and a trial, the question an attorney at that time would likely raise is the fact that there's been all this stuff leaked that would threaten their client's ability to get a fair trial."
Stuart Slotnick, a managing partner in New York for the criminal defense litigation firm Buchanan Ingersoll & Rooney and a former prosecutor who works alongside his father and well-known defense attorney Barry Slotnick, said usually law enforcement closely restricts the flow of information in an ongoing investigation so it doesn't hamper the inquiry.
"If they have evidence the stepmother was responsible for the disappearance, then they need to make an arrest," Slotnick said. "I would say a public relations campaign against a potential target is inappropriate, and likely counterproductive if in fact this is being orchestrated by the prosecution. If this is in fact happening, to overbear someone with bad press, it's not a conventional strategy."
http://www.oregonlive.com/news/index.ssf/2010/08/kyron_horman_divorce_case_cast.html
Margaret Paris, dean of the University of Oregon Law School, says it seems as if the release of certain details through Kyron's parents and court filings is a tool police and prosecutors are using to "turn up the heat" on people they believe are hiding information, or pressuring people to come forward.
"It might be a borderline situation, where there isn't anything that expressly makes it wrong," Paris said. "But, assuming there's eventually an indictment and a trial, the question an attorney at that time would likely raise is the fact that there's been all this stuff leaked that would threaten their client's ability to get a fair trial."
Stuart Slotnick, a managing partner in New York for the criminal defense litigation firm Buchanan Ingersoll & Rooney and a former prosecutor who works alongside his father and well-known defense attorney Barry Slotnick, said usually law enforcement closely restricts the flow of information in an ongoing investigation so it doesn't hamper the inquiry.
"If they have evidence the stepmother was responsible for the disappearance, then they need to make an arrest," Slotnick said. "I would say a public relations campaign against a potential target is inappropriate, and likely counterproductive if in fact this is being orchestrated by the prosecution. If this is in fact happening, to overbear someone with bad press, it's not a conventional strategy."
http://www.oregonlive.com/news/index.ssf/2010/08/kyron_horman_divorce_case_cast.html
BeanE
Inactive
BBM. That would be a concern for LE and the DA. It would not be a concern for Kaine and Desiree - they just want their son back.
With the things Kaine and Desiree have said, they have stated that the info did not come from LE.
In fact, Desiree opened up more and let us know further that there was no evidence, but that it was actually based on feelings she had, some from feelings she referred to as her "motherly instinct", others because she "didn't like that" when, in her opinion, Dede "looked smug" in a picture.
Kaine opened up and admitted that info did not, in fact, come from LE, but that it was from things Terri had said. This included her saying that LE had told her she failed the first poly, and that she'd said LE told her a cell ping didn't match with a place she'd said she was.
MCSO has issued statements that info did not come from them, including specifically that info Kaine and Desiree relayed in interviews did not come from MCSO.
It's clear to me that the info did not come from LE, and who was trying to pressure people. Kaine and Desiree want their son back. It's understandable. Unwise, but understandable. They are traumatized, in unimaginable pain, and suffering a great loss.
Donjeta
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I don't think I can presume to know what hard evidence LE has got. They never showed me any of their files. I assume that they think they've got something since they've geared their investigation a certain way and they've got the GJ convening, but I'm not sure if it will be enough to convict her, whatever there is. Kyron has not been found and an important part of the hard evidence is where he is IMO.
If it's somebody else than Terri then I'm a lot less optimistic about LE's hard evidence because they seem to have been chasing a red herring.
If it's somebody else than Terri then I'm a lot less optimistic about LE's hard evidence because they seem to have been chasing a red herring.
I think if she had been told by someone that he was seen with a male chaperon, then indeed LE would have had to contact that person and rule that out. To the best of my knowledge, NEVER, ever was this UNKNOWN male chaperon ever mentioned by LE or anyone else other than TH. If ANYONE had seen Kyron with some stranger, I'm sure we'd have heard about it by now. That tells me TH was lying. Remember it was only day two when she sent this email, and I still would like to know what exact blog she was referring to that was already accusing her of something.
However, after thinking about this last night while trying to sleep and NOT think about it, LOL...... I decided maybe she wasn't lying......maybe SHE last saw him with a male chaperon who was not on the list. Perhaps that's what she wanted people to see....perhaps she made a bit of a Freudian slip, and SHE KNEW he should have been last seen with an unidentified man.....perhaps one she hired.
IMHO, she was either lying about a male chaperon to divert attention away from herself, or she made a slip up and it was someone she hired. Either way, that ONE statement tells me she is somehow involved in her stepson's disappearance.
I'm still hoping she's hidden him somewhere with someone else, but I do think this shows she's involved and I think LE would have thought the same thing. LE questioning this email may even have been one of the lie detector test failures. Who knows?
Aedrys
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But they'd have to have SOMETHING for comparison there to say that the overtures were similar. They cannot just go off of the words of landscaper and Michael Cook. That would be pure speculation and LE would just be drawing a conclusion based on speculation. I don't think they would make that statement unless there texts and pictures sitting there side by side for a comparison. I think what happened is a poor choice of words on their part because they're trying to not give away what they have for some reason. Two guys saying that they saw her *advertiser censored* and got texts is not enough to say that the overtures are similar. And the word "conveyed" means they must have something that shows how she passed on these sexual overtures and personal relationship concerns to the both of them.
I definitely think there's hard evidence of the MFH plot. I think it's more circumstantial as to the kidnapping and/or murder, but circumstantial cases can be won in a court of law. It's just harder to win those types of cases. Just because she was smart enough to do away with evidence doesn't mean she should just get away with this if she did it. It's like saying because Caylee sat out in the elements for 31 days, including a hurricane, that Casey should get away with her murder because there's no DNA at the dump site or the crime scene inside her car. At least that's her mother's thinking at this point. There's even less here and they haven't found Kyron, but that shouldn't mean that she automatically gets away with it if they can't find hard evidence or a crime scene. I know of one case where a guy put his wife's body through a wood chipper and they were able to convict him of murdering her even though they never found her body. It can be done, it's just not easy to do, and there is a bigger chance of an innocent person going to jail. But it doesn't mean that with all of the inconsistencies here that LE couldn't convince a jury that she did this without Kyron's body. I do hope they find him, though. Having a body always is a big help in convicting someone.
Law enforcement has informed Petitioner's attorney that Respondent's stated personal relationship concerns and sexual overtures to Mr. Cook resemble those made to the man Respondent previously attempted to hire to murder Petitioner.
I would sure like to know what "Respondent's stated personal relationship concerns" were.
I would sure like to know what "Respondent's stated personal relationship concerns" were.
stmarysmead
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I'd like to know the psychological make-up of someone who would repeat a pattern like this at a time when she had to know she was under intense scrutiny. Her husband had left, allegedly she had failed polygraphs. The Landscaper story was out there.
If she is mentally healthy, why would Terri take the risk?
Remember she won't "risk" fighting for her Baby...but she'll do this?