THE BLOW TO THE HEAD...an ACCIDENT...

[cappuccina]

...sense that it was done when Patsy lost it, and was not planned...

 

[sandraladeda]

Early in the JBR investigation, I formed a couple of (uneducated) theories as to what happened. One - the jealousy motive - that JBR was either murdered by the jealous mother of a kiddy pageant rival, or simply a jealous mother who knew the Rs and ate her heart out constantly over P's incessant bragging about JBR and finally decided to kill the little darling, or mother (PR) killed in an accident brought on by anger. As I became better informed, I leaned towards the "angry mother accident" theory.

As a loving mom, I know how easy it can be to get angry at children when we are tired, stressed, frustrated, etc. I always pictured PR encountering JB awake when she shoud have been asleep, perhaps having soiled herself, perhaps being insolent to her mother, and PR, angrily grabbing JBR, and thrusting her onto her bed, on which, tragically, a flashlight/baseball bat/other object happpened to be lying. (As a mother, I have angrily thrust my childen onto a chair - "sit HERE!", or into their beds - "go to BED! and I don't want to see you out of bed again, UNDERSTAND!") Imagine P's shock, seeing the motionless JB. She only wanted her to go to bed! she only wanted her to quit soiling herself! What will she tell John? How can she get out of this?

The coverup begins....

 

[kazzbar]

Days ago I wrote in another thread about the head blow and the possibility that the blow came from above as opposed to the blow coming down hard on the head.

Having 5 kids, it was always a challenge to get several sleeping kids out of a car, late at night after visiting relatives.

I can remember several times that either myself or Mr. Am had a kiddo slung over our shoulder, kiddow wakes up, lifts head, and Pow, kiddow bangs head on top of front or bedroom door frame.
Lifting another kiddo out of the car, I was in a hurry and kiddow's head hit the car's door trim/frame as I got him out. (Yes, I felt like the worst mom in the world at the time)

Could JBR's head injury have happened from above? Such as a pipe in the basement?
Maybe someone carrying her up on their shoulder, JBR flung back, either waking up or while still asleep and when doing so slammed her head against a pipe that ran along the ceiling?

ETA: Or maybe JBR was flailing and flinging her arms, legs and head trying to get away from her abductor while he/she was carrying her and her head hit something hard, above her? I added this because I just remembered my own son's temper tantrums where he would flail arms, legs and head and there were a few occasions where he slammed his head, Hard! while in one of his tantrums.

I shut my sons head in a car door once. Oh, it was horrible poor kid.He had his head between the two door where the hinges were. Luckily it was not hard and he was alright but it sure scared us both!

 

[cappuccina]

....this is exactly what most LE and forensic folks think happened as well...very well-written and succint post...

 

[Malapoo]

I've often wondered if the head blow came first, was the strangulation done to "put her out of her pain"? With such severe head injury, she could have been seizing or "posturing" and at that point whether it was JMK or PR or a kidnapper "finishing her off" may have seemed the only option?

 

[angelwngs]

Hi Kazz,
You're back at your computer I see! Admit it, we're addicted!

I can totally relate to your story about your child and the car door. It is a wonder my children ever made it.

I was watching American Justice the other day. The husband had been convicted of the murder of his wife. He obtained a second trial and it was found that the ME's and "expert's" original theories about the blows to the wife's head were wrong. They originally felt that she had been pushed by him down the basement stairs while coming up them, thus hitting her head and cracking open open her skull and killing her. The husband had spent 10 years in jail for the murder. In the end, it was proven that she had tripped and fallen down the stairs when she was going up them rather than being pushed from the top when she was going down them.

My point is, evidence is evidence....but how humanbeings interpret it depends on what day of the week they look at it...and who it is doing the 'looking'. For every expert that says the evidence 'points to guilt', somewhere out there there are three more willing to say the evidence 'points to innocence'.

Everyone here has their opinions. Some back it up with 'evidence' and 'expert opinion' to justify their point and I appreciate each and every different point of view, because it keeps my mind open and willing to look at every possibility, just as I'm sure you do...

I wouldn't have looked at it this was yesterday before your post, telling me just because an idea of mine about the blacklight/semen 'evidence' getting shot down here doesn't make it incorrect...

Since then I've been reading between the words on every post. Thank you for your comment. It made me think and realize we are all here for the same reason; justice. Sometimes it is just more illusive than at others.

(and for the record, I am still thinking that it was semen on JBR's thighs and had just been to degraded to be proven by a swab test but was proven by a blacklight! I'm with you... I think he would have made himself 'happy' at least once at the scene....)

 

[cappuccina]

...the "window dressing" done by Patsy, as it were...

 

[gls]

resulted from an accident. I don´t think a blow to her head caused the fracture; my belief is that her head was crushed by someone pinning her against a hard, immovible surface. I think someone accidently fell against her head and her head was pinned against his body and possibly the edge of a night stand that was up against the wall in JB´s bedroom. The weight and the accidental fall of the body caused a dynamic force against
JB´s skull bone, which had not fully developed it´s normal strength and thus was more reflexible and softer than a teenager´s or an adult´s skull.

If JB had been hit with a blunt instrument, the scalp would have been cut and bled at the point where a quarter inch bone chip was dislodged. A blunt instrument would have forced the scalp against the sharp edge of the broken skull bone and caused it to bleed. Since we know that the scalp did not bleed externally at that point then we must conclude that a blunt instrument was not used and the fracture was not caused by a blow to the head. JB´s fracture indicates a crushing action, not a striking action.

I think that is what Doctor Lee means when he says that the head fracture was consistent with an accident.

 

[Wrinkles]

Hiya Kazzbar,

It was interesting, your mention of slamming the child's head in the door. I had been thinking, is it possible that someone gave a quick slam to the door, it got JBRs head and it cracked the skull and popped the piece that was broken? If that was the case, however, wouldn't here have been an opposite bruising seen on the skull? (i.e. from door size, and frame side.)

Hmmm back to the drawing board.

The flashlight is thought to be that which was used to strike the head.

Does anyone know if that was proven at all? Is it possible that the flashlight actually "fit" that hole in the skull?

And...I think I have heard mention of some golf club incident before?

Does anyone know anything about the above questions?

Oh SuperDave, was it known that Patsy was taking tranquilizers and showing peculiar or angry behavior prior to JBRs death? Is there anywhere to read about that which is known about this?

Thanks all...

W

 

[kazzbar]

Hi, Angelwngs,yes I am addicted .I am finding it hard to walk away from this forum. I think there is a big piece of the 'puzzle' missing in regard to the night JBR was murdered. I still do not rule out Patsy being involved but the intruder theory just works a little better for me.
I must admit though I did not like Pats. I think was very pretentious and unlikeable. But as I have said before this does not a murderer, make!
The blow to JBR head was enormous and even allowing for a childs soft skull , it was massive. It must have been one 'hell' of an accident to cause that. You have made me wonder though, about the woman falling down the stairs story.
Could JBR have tumbled down the stairs?
I agree that he would have made himself " happy' at some point.

Nothing will convince me otherwise. I wait to be shot down in flames at any minute!!!..... HA, HA,

 

[angelwngs]

Hiya Kazzbar,

It was interesting, your mention of slamming the child's head in the door. I had been thinking, is it possible that someone gave a quick slam to the door, it got JBRs head and it cracked the skull and popped the piece that was broken? If that was the case, however, wouldn't here have been an opposite bruising seen on the skull? (i.e. from door size, and frame side.)

Hmmm back to the drawing board.

The flashlight is thought to be that which was used to strike the head.

Does anyone know if that was proven at all? Is it possible that the flashlight actually "fit" that hole in the skull?

To my knowledge, it was said that the blow to the head was "consistant" with being hit by an object such as the flashlight.

And...I think I have heard mention of some golf club incident before?

An incident was reported which required medical attention, I think at the hospital, that involved what was said to have been an innicent 'accidnetal' blow to the head by Burke who was playing w/or swinging a golf club which hit JonBenet in the head.

Does anyone know anything about the above questions?

Oh SuperDave, was it known that Patsy was taking tranquilizers and showing peculiar or angry behavior prior to JBRs death? Is there anywhere to read about that which is known about this?

Go to "search this forum" and type in argument between Patsy and JonBenet. I think that will bring up several the threads reguarding PR's 'temperment' and concerning a 'tiff' between JBR and PR that JR documented on the evening prior to JBR's murder. Apparently, PR wanted JBR to wear a matching red sweater and matching black velvet pants to the party that night and JBR exhibited some independant thinking about the issue.

Thanks all...

W

Good Luck with your researching.

 

[Wrinkles]

Hello AngelWngs,

Thanks so much for your response.

Actually, I think there are far sharper thinkers than myself that have researched this for a long time. It would take me forever to catch up with them

I really appreciate reading the thoughts of the many minds.

Again, thanks for responding.

W

 

[angelwngs]

Hi, Angelwngs,yes I am addicted .I am finding it hard to walk away from this forum. I think there is a big piece of the 'puzzle' missing in regard to the night JBR was murdered. I still do not rule out Patsy being involved but the intruder theory just works a little better for me.
I must admit though I did not like Pats. I think was very pretentious and unlikeable. But as I have said before this does not a murderer, make!
The blow to JBR head was enormous and even allowing for a childs soft skull , it was massive. It must have been one 'hell' of an accident to cause that. You have made me wonder though, about the woman falling down the stairs story.
Could JBR have tumbled down the stairs?
I agree that he would have made himself " happy' at some point.

Nothing will convince me otherwise. I wait to be shot down in flames at any minute!!!..... HA, HA,

~~~~~~~~~~
Kazz,
My problem with the RDI is that the crime was so elaborate in construction and so terribly sexually sadistic. I simply can't make the pieces fit even enough to write a possible senerio in which the RDI. So far, anyway.

What do you know about Michael Helgoth? He is the guy who reportedly committed suicide early on in the investigation and shortly after Bouder officials announced that they were narrowing in on the suspects. His comment to a friend, that he would like to know what it felt like to 'crack someone in the skull' has me thinking...

Do you know if he was cleared as a suspected related to JBR's murder?

If the blow to the head did indeed come after her death, could it not have been to fulfil that sadistic desire in someone?

It was reported that he said that he would be coming into 50-60 thousand dollars after Christmas. He was right handed but the gunshot to his head entered the left side and exited the right. The gun was found by his right side. Hi-Tec boots consistant with the print found at JBR's crime scene were found in his apartment. Also, a piece of clothing with STBC was also there. (I think it was his ex-girlfriend who said that this came from a tennis club in Calif. with the name which fit those letters...)

What if an pedo ring had made arrangements for a snuff video to be made and pictures to be taken? Helgoth and his friend were contacted to do it. The payoff was between 50-60 thousand dollars. The contractors caught wind of Helgoth running his mouth and cut him out of the deal and hired someone else and then exicuted him?

JMK could have definately fallen into some of this. He could have known about it after the fact or been privy to knowledge of it in the planning stages. He may have been the person who identified JBR as the perfect 'star' for the video and the pictures. (Being attached to her from pagents in the Atlanta area...)

Ouuuuuuugh.... Talk about a sick, ugly... way for JMK to have 'been there' when JBR was killed...and not to have to make the trip to Boulder at all...

(Well, until now!)

Humm... maybe something to look at...

 

[T-Rex]

I think if someone was strangled while they were conscious, they'd have scratch marks around their neck from trying to pull the rope off. Or, if their hands were tied, they'd have bruises around their wrist from trying to pull free. And even if they were unconscious, I thought being strangled caused a person's eyes and tongue to protrude.

I won't provide a link, but you can see the effects by doing a Google image search for garrote, and going to page 7. (Warning--graphic)

 

[angelwngs]

I think if someone was strangled while they were conscious, they'd have scratch marks around their neck from trying to pull the rope off. Or, if their hands were tied, they'd have bruises around their wrist from trying to pull free. And even if they were unconscious, I thought being strangled caused a person's eyes and tongue to protrude.

I won't provide a link, but you can see the effects by doing a Google image search for garrote, and going to page 7. (Warning--graphic)

I thought DNA of her fingernails showed some of her own DNA and it was concluded that she had most likely attempted to pull at the garrote as it was choking her............ I could be wrong... (My hubby says that I was wrong once but it was back in 1968........)

 

[txsvicki]

If a predator murdered JonBenet, I don't think that any of the injuries were accidents at all but planned out as part of the murder. Karr surely would have planned on the garrotte being used and intended to bash her over the head and to kill after as a part of his sicko sexual fantasies. I just don't see how he or anyone else could have accidentally inflicted that skull fracture. He did tell Wendy Hutchins that he would fantasize about the little girls wearing those choker necklaces and imagine that they were ligatures.

 

[angelwngs]

If a predator murdered JonBenet, I don't think that any of the injuries were accidents at all but planned out as part of the murder. Karr surely would have planned on the garrotte being used and intended to bash her over the head and to kill after as a part of his sicko sexual fantasies. I just don't see how he or anyone else could have accidentally inflicted that skull fracture. He did tell Wendy Hutchins that he would fantasize about the little girls wearing those choker necklaces and imagine that they were ligatures.

~~~~
I had not heard that he told WH about choker necklaces and ligatures. That is significant.

I agree with you, txvicki. It is difficult to imagine the fracture as an accident. The only reasons I was 'trying to imagine' the blow to the head being an 'accident' was because JMK said "It was an accident." Also, if as some experts say the blow to the head came after she was already dead, then why? I see only two genuine possibilities:
1. As you stated, fulfilling some "sickom sexual fantasy".
2. Or accidental.

(Well, maybe a 3rd one, if the killer was a retarded idiot... To be sure she was really, really dead, just not merely dead...)

 

[Nuisanceposter]

~~~~~~~~~~
Kazz,
My problem with the RDI is that the crime was so elaborate in construction and so terribly sexually sadistic. I simply can't make the pieces fit even enough to write a possible senerio in which the RDI. So far, anyway.

My goodness, angelwngs, what you see with JonBenet is nowhere near the work of a sexual sadist. Not to be crude or gross, but a sexual sadist would have torn JB's bottom to ribbons. You would see a lot more damage than just digital penetration, extensive tearing and bleeding, and a sadist would have most likely assaulted her anally as well as vaginally. A sadist would not have bothered to go find clothes and redress her, either, although I can see the wiping perhaps as a form of evidence removal. A sadist is proud of his work and would not undo it by clothing the victim and covering her up afterwards. That's the indicator of someone who cares for her, not someone who has attacked her to hurt her in the worst way possible out of the sheer pleasure of it.

Helgoth was cleared, but continues to be a hardcore IDI fave nonetheless.

I doubt a pedo ring would have not been found out by now, and I doubt they all would have remained silent all these years, especially if there was video footage.

JonBenet's DNA under her nails is not proof she scratched at her neck. I have my own DNA under my nails from just scratching an itch on my arm. JonBenet's skin under her nails would be an indication that she scratched at her neck, and I've never heard that they found her skin under nails, or any corresponding marks on her neck. If she was able to pull at the cord around her neck while being strangled, she would have left furrowed lines on her neck from her nails and her skin would be under her nails. Strangling victims claw themselves up pretty good when they try to get the pressure off - any damage or pain incurred while struggling to breathe is nothing compared to the desperate need to breathe.

 

[Guy_in_Georgia]

Dr. Ronald Wright, director of the forensic pathology department at the University of Miami School of Medicine was quoted as saying the following about the timeline in regards to the blow to the head and the strangulation. His opinion was that the blow came first, and did not cause her death:

The blow to her head -- which Wright is convinced was not from a golf club but more likely a blunt object such as a baseball bat or heavy flashlight -- came first, Wright said. "She was whopped on the head a long time before she was strangled,'' said Wright. "That might or might not have rendered her unconscious. But this is not anything that kills her right away.'' He said 20 to 60 minutes elapsed between the skull fracture and the strangulation. The reason he's so sure, said Wright, is that details revealed about the brain injury, "the swelling, the bleeding here and there, they take a while to happen.'' And that wouldn't have happened, he said, if she was already dead. "I think, probably, the head injury came first, because the strangulation resulted in petechial (pinpoint) hemorrhages'' in areas such as the eyelids, Kirschner said. "I think she died when she was strangled. The cerebral hemorrhaging and bruising of the brain did occur first. But she was still alive when strangled.''

http://denver.rockymountainnews.com/extra/ramsey/0716jon.htm

 

[angelwngs]

My goodness, angelwngs, what you see with JonBenet is nowhere near the work of a sexual sadist. Not to be crude or gross, but a sexual sadist would have torn JB's bottom to ribbons. You would see a lot more damage than just digital penetration, extensive tearing and bleeding, and a sadist would have most likely assaulted her anally as well as vaginally. A sadist would not have bothered to go find clothes and redress her, either, although I can see the wiping perhaps as a form of evidence removal. A sadist is proud of his work and would not undo it by clothing the victim and covering her up afterwards. That's the indicator of someone who cares for her, not someone who has attacked her to hurt her in the worst way possible out of the sheer pleasure of it.

Helgoth was cleared, but continues to be a hardcore IDI fave nonetheless.

I doubt a pedo ring would have not been found out by now, and I doubt they all would have remained silent all these years, especially if there was video footage.

JonBenet's DNA under her nails is not proof she scratched at her neck. I have my own DNA under my nails from just scratching an itch on my arm. JonBenet's skin under her nails would be an indication that she scratched at her neck, and I've never heard that they found her skin under nails, or any corresponding marks on her neck. If she was able to pull at the cord around her neck while being strangled, she would have left furrowed lines on her neck from her nails and her skin would be under her nails. Strangling victims claw themselves up pretty good when they try to get the pressure off - any damage or pain incurred while struggling to breathe is nothing compared to the desperate need to breathe.

~~~~~~~~~~
I had just written a 'blow by blow' of a possible intruder theory. My words came from a very emotional place. They did NOT say JBR's injuries were the work of a "sexual sadist". I am sure that there is a checklist of the characteristics found in murders done by sexual sadists that are used as criterior to determine the profile of the 'who did it'. I agree, this murderer would scarcely fit that profile. However, having a paint brush repeatedly shoved inside a 6 year old child is, in my opinion, in itself, a sexually, sadistic act which makes me sick to my stomach to think about much less write about.

I wondered how long it would take someone to jump on my emotionally driven wording, misintrepret my intent and give me a detailed list of the MO of a sexual sadist. I almost edited my words, but thought it not worth the effort. Now, I see it would have saved me at least two paragraphs............

Make it three..........I am thankful that my personality is not agressively driven. My mother always told me that it is best not to repond to people with a "Know it All" attitude or you may find yourself, not only often proven wrong, but at the end of your days old, alone and bitter....... I'm glad I listened.