The Charges - Why Not First Degree?

[No it's not]

Interesting comments on Jacob Carpenter's Twitter blog regarding CWW's charges. Carpenter is a court reporter for the Naples Daily News:

https://twitter.com/NDN_JCarpenter

Among else Carpenter lists samples of recent South West FL first-degree murder cases, showing arrest dates and indictment dates.

-Nin

 

[Dmacky]

Interesting comments on Jacob Carpenter's Twitter blog regarding CWW's charges. Carpenter is a court reporter for the Naples Daily News:

https://twitter.com/NDN_JCarpenter

Among else Carpenter lists samples of recent South West FL first-degree murder cases, showing arrest dates and indictment dates.

-Nin

Interesting Nin ~
It looks like none so far in 2015?

 

[Eileen730]

Interesting Nin ~
It looks like none so far in 2015?

Baby chances parents were charged with first degree murder.
I do not believe a grand jury was called for that one.
These were the initial charges first degree"" soooo my question is why cant they charge
this dynamic duo with the same?

What is different here?

 

[Eileen730]

There are many murders here in Florida and many have first degree charges right off the bat.

 

[Eileen730]

Second-degree murder: any intentional murder with malice aforethought, but is not premeditated or planned in advance.[10]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_(United_States_law)


Soooo....maybe they said they went there looking for something else and she interrupted them and they killed her. I cant even understand the without premeditation part of this.

 

[Eileen730]

it would be interesting to know when the terms for grand juries there begin and end
they are not the same throughout Florida
for instance, in some places grand juries serve for 6 months - January to June, July to December
that could influence when presentation is made

perhaps & jmo

I googled Murders in florida and read some news clippings and the perps were charged
with first degree when they were caught not weeks or months later.


I think these charges stem from maybe what THEY say happened and why they were there.

 

[Eileen730]

I still think ( and I'm sure I'm the only one) Cww was there looking for something.
I don't think he was hired by MS to kill her.

What I think is.....they cant change the charges unless they arrest MS!

 

[Frigga]

They went looking for something on the day that TS was to return- alone? Not the several days before when everyone was long gone and not due to return? According to Affidavits CWW was in constant communication with MS- makes no sense- oh and the SIX life insurance policies that only MS stood to gain from. I don't think so.

 

[SeesSeas]

Baby chances parents were charged with first degree murder.
I do not believe a grand jury was called for that one.
These were the initial charges first degree"" soooo my question is why cant they charge
this dynamic duo with the same?

What is different here?

^^BBM - - An explanation, and example, of why we are waiting for a Florida grand jury to indict CWW for first-degree murder - -

Within a couple of weeks of the October 2015 arrests of baby Chance’s parents for first-degree murder, the prosecutor reduced the charges because “the State Attorney’s Office can only charge him with second-degree murder because a grand jury indictment is necessary for a first-degree murder charge“ , per this news article:

http://wfla.com/2015/11/03/charges-reduced-for-baby-chances-parents/
Charges reduced for baby Chance’s parents
November 3, 2015
SARASOTA COUNTY, Fla. (WFLA) – The charges have been reduced for the North Port parents accused in their infant son’s death. Prosecutors initially charged both Joseph Walsh, 36, and Kristen Bury, 32, with first-degree felony murder in the death of their 9-week-old son, Chance Walsh.
Sarasota County State Attorney’s Office prosecutor Suzanne O’Donnell confirmed Tuesday that charges have changed for Walsh and Bury. Walsh is now charged with second-degree murder, rather than first-degree murder. O’Donnell says the State Attorney’s Office can only charge him with second-degree murder because a grand jury indictment is necessary for a first-degree murder charge. . . .

 

[Dmacky]

I still think ( and I'm sure I'm the only one) Cww was there looking for something.
I don't think he was hired by MS to kill her.

What I think is.....they cant change the charges unless they arrest MS!

Eileen, no disrespect intended, but you really are in a league all your own with this theory. Do you really think that after reading all of this evidence ?? CWW knew their itinerary and he had the whole weekend to go there uninterrupted and look for whatever you think it was, so why would they "wait" until TS was on her way home?
Just curious how you came to your conclusion. :smile:

 

[Eileen730]

They went looking for something on the day that TS was to return- alone? Not the several days before when everyone was long gone and not due to return? According to Affidavits CWW was in constant communication with MS- makes no sense- oh and the SIX life insurance policies that only MS stood to gain from. I don't think so.

I totally understand what u are saying but I really cant believe MS is that Dumb.
IMO its not the insurance. but that's JUst MY thinking here.

To me this is payback of some kind.

I do believe they went there because she was going to be there.
But I think they told LE they were there after something and she came in.

They wont say that they were there to kill her.

 

[Eileen730]

Eileen, no disrespect intended, but you really are in a league all your own with this theory. Do you really think that after reading all of this evidence ?? CWW knew their itinerary and he had the whole weekend to go there uninterrupted and look for whatever you think it was, so why would they "wait" until TS was on her way home?
Just curious how you came to your conclusion. :smile:

Yess CWW knew she was coming home alone...
This was the whole reason he did this at this time.

IM just not convinced MS wanted her dead.

guess I'm that lone fence sitter!

We can all speculate But all I have seen was TS saying MS was involved.

 

[susnoat]

Yess CWW knew she was coming home alone...
This was the whole reason he did this at this time.

IM just not convinced MS wanted her dead.

guess I'm that lone fence sitter!

We can all speculate But all I have seen was TS saying MS was involved.

What should convince you is how MS is defending CWW. Read AW sworn statement transcript. Look at how LE laid this out for her in very simple terms. They would have done the same thing to MS. If he did not want her dead, THAT is the point he would be flipping out and telling all he knew about CWW and his past. The fact he is not is what is pointing to his guilt at this time.

 

[FightTheOstrich]

What should convince you is how MS is defending CWW. Read AW sworn statement transcript. Look at how LE laid this out for her in very simple terms. They would have done the same thing to MS. If he did not want her dead, THAT is the point he would be flipping out and telling all he knew about CWW and his past. The fact he is not is what is pointing to his guilt at this time.

And MS told TS's mother that there's no way CWW killed his wife....

 

[FightTheOstrich]

They went looking for something on the day that TS was to return- alone? Not the several days before when everyone was long gone and not due to return? According to Affidavits CWW was in constant communication with MS- makes no sense- oh and the SIX life insurance policies that only MS stood to gain from. I don't think so.

Excellent point! In the interview with BS it's implied that CWW and JR were in the home when BS entered it more than 12 hours prior to TS's return home. Clearly the target was TS otherwise these guys would have been long gone.

 

[mckazpm]

I totally understand what u are saying but I really cant believe MS is that Dumb.
IMO its not the insurance. but that's JUst MY thinking here.

To me this is payback of some kind.

I do believe they went there because she was going to be there.
But I think they told LE they were there after something and she came in.

They wont say that they were there to kill her.

How we may perceive their actions as "Dumb", I continue to see each of them as people who think very highly of themselves...above the law, invincible, extremely grandiose. I don't personally know MS, but again, his personality in the neighborhood was "above everyone else" and it sounds like he came across this way to others as well...it's all entitlement. Again, we may not understand because our minds are not in that same place...however, we can agree to disagree. I pray that the burner phones will hold key evidence to finally implicate MS as well and have him enjoy his last "threesome", with his good buddy CWW & JR.... New Year, new indictments (fingers crossed) JMO

 

[irishchook]

^^BBM - - An explanation, and example, of why we are waiting for a Florida grand jury to indict CWW for first-degree murder - -

Within a couple of weeks of the October 2015 arrests of baby Chance’s parents for first-degree murder, the prosecutor reduced the charges because “the State Attorney’s Office can only charge him with second-degree murder because a grand jury indictment is necessary for a first-degree murder charge“ , per this news article:

http://wfla.com/2015/11/03/charges-reduced-for-baby-chances-parents/
Charges reduced for baby Chance’s parents
November 3, 2015
SARASOTA COUNTY, Fla. (WFLA) – The charges have been reduced for the North Port parents accused in their infant son’s death. Prosecutors initially charged both Joseph Walsh, 36, and Kristen Bury, 32, with first-degree felony murder in the death of their 9-week-old son, Chance Walsh.
Sarasota County State Attorney’s Office prosecutor Suzanne O’Donnell confirmed Tuesday that charges have changed for Walsh and Bury. Walsh is now charged with second-degree murder, rather than first-degree murder. O’Donnell says the State Attorney’s Office can only charge him with second-degree murder because a grand jury indictment is necessary for a first-degree murder charge. . . .

Glad to see you back SeesSeas!

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

 

[irishchook]

Yess CWW knew she was coming home alone...
This was the whole reason he did this at this time.

IM just not convinced MS wanted her dead.

guess I'm that lone fence sitter!

We can all speculate But all I have seen was TS saying MS was involved.

As stubborn as I am and maybe I can speak for most, but I appreciate your approach in looking outside of the box, but not necessarily being a supporter of the alleged perps.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

 

[irishchook]

How we may perceive their actions as "Dumb", I continue to see each of them as people who think very highly of themselves...above the law, invincible, extremely grandiose. I don't personally know MS, but again, his personality in the neighborhood was "above everyone else" and it sounds like he came across this way to others as well...it's all entitlement. Again, we may not understand because our minds are not in that same place...however, we can agree to disagree. I pray that the burner phones will hold key evidence to finally implicate MS as well and have him enjoy his last "threesome", with his good buddy CWW & JR.... New Year, new indictments (fingers crossed) JMO

When one lacks empathy, there are no consequences.

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[beach]

:bump:ing this thread because I was informed of something new and very interesting to me regarding legal proceedings in Florida.

Before I disclose it, keep in mind these charges against both Mark and JRR can be upgraded to 1st degree at anytime. Particularly, in light of any Grand Jury proceedings that may be happening. (And, NO, I have no inside knowledge of any GJ proceedings that may or may not be happening.)

That said, I was informed by a professional very familiar with the local legal system in Florida that trying a defendant charged with Murder in the 2nd degree only requires a jury of SIX! (6) SIX!?! I was floored when I heard that.

A charge of 1st degree murder would require a jury of TWELVE (12). And, should the death penalty be sought, then those twelve jurors would have to be heavily screened and interviewed by both the prosecution & defense regarding their feelings about the death penalty. It makes striking a jury far more difficult and time consuming

To be clear, it is possible that either (or both) MS / JRR could still have their charges increased to Murder in the First Degree. If that happens, it would then be up to the SAO to decide whether to seek the death penalty. If they chose not to seek the death penalty, then it still have to seat a TWELVE person jury. That jury would not have to be "death qualified" though.