The GB4 and Shannan Gilbert-Connecting the dots

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You're mixing up Maureen and Melissa.

Maureen was the one last seen at the bus terminal, who deposited $900 and who told her friends that she'd been robbed of her nights earnings.

Melissa is the one who disappeared from The Bronx, told her boyfriend she had a client for $1000 that night, and was secretive about the client.

With respect to the call Maureen made, I wouldn't characterize it as a distress call. More a weary, po'ed call. She'd made some money on the trip, deposited it in her account, then that night had gotten robbed of whatever earning she had on her from that particular day. The call to friends, imo, was more of a "I've had it, I'm coming home" call.

Right, sorry. So Maureen had also $1000 or more since she deposited $900. Well, does that matter? Maybe, because it would indicate a $1000 visit wasn't that unusual at all, neither for Maureen nor for Melissa.

Okay, lets characterize this phone call as just a kind of venting steam in Maureen's case. And it was Maureen, who deposited ... then the conclusion is still correct, only the name was wrong. She had left the client and deposited the money, which indicates, the client wasn't the killer. Then she went to the bus terminal, was robbed somewhere on the way or at the terminal and made that phone call or calls (all articles talk about friends, she called, not just one friend). But after that call, there is no trace of Maureen anymore. And she went to no atm. So, she calls friends in the middle of the night, fine, I can get that, p***** as she had to be after getting robbed. But it still means, her last known position was in NYC and it was too late to find ad hoc another client, was it? That puts her abduction to NYC.
I have a maybe stupid question, but is there anything about that bus terminal? Did the other victims use buses from there too on occasion? I am originally from Europe, so this long distance bus riding appears to me still somewhat unfamiliar. Is that common?
The reason why I ask is, I remembered the case of John Wayne Gacy. Some of his victims were picked at a bus terminal which proved to be the only common denominator for the majority of them.
 
Right, sorry. So Maureen had also $1000 or more since she deposited $900. Well, does that matter? Maybe, because it would indicate a $1000 visit wasn't that unusual at all, neither for Maureen nor for Melissa.

Okay, lets characterize this phone call as just a kind of venting steam in Maureen's case. And it was Maureen, who deposited ... then the conclusion is still correct, only the name was wrong. She had left the client and deposited the money, which indicates, the client wasn't the killer. Then she went to the bus terminal, was robbed somewhere on the way or at the terminal and made that phone call or calls (all articles talk about friends, she called, not just one friend). But after that call, there is no trace of Maureen anymore. And she went to no atm. So, she calls friends in the middle of the night, fine, I can get that, p***** as she had to be after getting robbed. But it still means, her last known position was in NYC and it was too late to find ad hoc another client, was it? That puts her abduction to NYC.
I have a maybe stupid question, but is there anything about that bus terminal? Did the other victims use buses from there too on occasion? I am originally from Europe, so this long distance bus riding appears to me still somewhat unfamiliar. Is that common?
The reason why I ask is, I remembered the case of John Wayne Gacy. Some of his victims were picked at a bus terminal which proved to be the only common denominator for the majority of them.

You're making huge assumptions. Maureen probably accumulated the $900 from several clients, not one. Most online escorts generally make from $150 to $250 a date (depending on the girl's base price, services rendered, length of time, etc. etc.). Higher end girls make more, of course, but none of our 4 were high end. We have no idea what amount Maureen's last known client offered...that's never been reported.

We also can't say that Maureen was abducted, in NYC or anywhere else for that matter. In fact, chances are quite high that she went with this client willingly, in order to recoup the days loses that she'd been robbed of. We also don't know for sure that she disappeared from New York Port Authority Bus Terminal...all we know if that she last spoke to friends in CT. from there.

From a local Manhattan paper, we find this info:

Maureen Brainard-Barnes, 25, of Norwich, CT., was last seen at a 46th Street hotel.
When Brainard-Barnes disappeared in 2007, Connecticut detectives came to Manhattan and went through her computer.


http://www.dnainfo.com/20110516/manhattan/nypd-officer-last-contact-murder-victim-sources-say

(How accurate that source is, I couldn't say. Not familiar with the publication.)
 
You're making huge assumptions. Maureen probably accumulated the $900 from several clients, not one. Most online escorts generally make from $150 to $250 a date (depending on the girl's base price, services rendered, length of time, etc. etc.). Higher end girls make more, of course, but none of our 4 were high end. We have no idea what amount Maureen's last known client offered...that's never been reported.
Weeeelll, technically, they offer about half an hour for $250 often. So $1000 is maybe two and an half hour, big booker rebates included?

We also can't say that Maureen was abducted, in NYC or anywhere else for that matter. In fact, chances are quite high that she went with this client willingly, in order to recoup the days loses that she'd been robbed of. We also don't know for sure that she disappeared from New York Port Authority Bus Terminal...all we know if that she last spoke to friends in CT. from there.
In fact, we can say, it is more likely. She went to a client, fine. She deposited later money. And even if she would have onlt deposited $0.01, at least this would prove, she was alive at this time and free to act as in not abducted. That means, she was okay, after she left that client and that means, he is not the killer. And btw, there is nothing in that story saying the client was at LI at all.
So, Maureen returned to NYC and deposited the money. Later, she makes a phone call from the bus terminal. Which is also in NYC.
Now, we know, she was abducted somewhere. We know, by physical laws, it had to be a place where she physically was. All places, we can prove, she was, are in NYC. So, we have to assume, she found late in the night, another client, who came to NYC and picked her up and this unknown man was the killer. Which is a mystery in itself, because either it was a client, who had already her number or he couldn't reach her ... unless, she found late at night a place, where she could read her latest Craigslist mails. And of course, if the killerclient contacted her that night via Craigslist, he had maybe to wait hours and hours till she found such a place (I am sure, she didn't use the computer of her first client, nor had she time to go through it on her phone while she was there).
See, that is what bothers me. Because all of them were found at LI, everyone assumes, they were killed there, even all forensic evidence we know of indicates already, they were not killed where they were found. But most of the victim's lives played out in NYC. So I can't understand this permanent dismissal of NYC as place to pick up a stalker.

Maureen Brainard-Barnes, 25, of Norwich, CT., was last seen at a 46th Street hotel.
When Brainard-Barnes disappeared in 2007, Connecticut detectives came to Manhattan and went through her computer.
That is nice, but the more complete report would be, that they looked on every client they found there and none panned out. In other words, the killer didn't contact her via Craigslist. Instead, they found a police officer from Staten Island. Which is btw also NYC. So ... he was checked, he wasn't the killer, they found nothing but a little bit stupidity in renting a hooker (or how do you express that in English correctly?). Technically, we're looking for a killer, not a moron about to catch a STD.

My suggestion is, I follow mt theory, you follow yours, we will probably not know in the next ten years anyway, who is right because LE is so slow these days.
 
HERE IS THE TIME LINE I HAVE DONE
rh0rpu.
 
I was watching a video the other day from a comedian named Lance Krall. He does prank calls and such. He does one where he pretends to be the assistant to Christopher Walken, and then he does his Christopher Walken impression (Very good too, I must say). Then today it hit me. We have been speculating why the GB4 would trust a John and leave their cells ( in some cases) and/or just get in the car with someone. Maybe he is acting like a personal assistant to a famous person, politician, ect... offers big money and demanding discretion. He says he will pick them up at set time and location, takes them to LI where celebs often live (from what I hear). I see this as a plausable ruse. Opinions?
 
Now to my time line. It was always hard for me to use my imagination regarding the dates of the GB4. Now that it in this form, I see that if the same person responsible for the disappearance of SG is the same as the GB4. Then this guy has some guts. Just a little over a month after SG went missing he goes after MW and dumps her where he should know LE is looking for her. Then 4 months later ALC. This guy was in his "active" phase. 2 in just 3 months. The discovery of the GB4, due to the SG investigation, most likely stopped him from killing any more girls. At least for a time. If it was one of the "Usual Suspects- JB, CHP, ect" then they are just plain dumb, or ballsy.
 
Another odity.
Jul 9 07- IS A MONDAY Five days after Indep. Day
Jul 12 09 - IS A SUNDAY Eight days after Indep. Day
Jun 6 10- IS A SUNDAY Six days after Memorial Day
Sep 2 10- IS A THURSDAY. Four days before Labour Day
 
Nutzger, thank you very much for posting the timeline and the subsequent days. A lot of smart people on this forum have done great work in providing maps, internet research, records and documents searches, and I have been thinking about the dates and times and locations of the GB4. I find the dates very fascinating, particularly the break in 2008. Also, the date of MB's disappearance and the ensuing calls to the sister. I would love to know the exact dates of those calls as well as the pings on MB's phone. And finally, the call to the mother at her job by someone pretending to be LE....something about all these dates is stirring in my head, and I'm trying to sort it out and make sense of it. IMHO, the dates are extremely critical to this case and figuring out who is responsible and determining the significance of the dates.
 
Nutzger, thank you very much for posting the timeline and the subsequent days. A lot of smart people on this forum have done great work in providing maps, internet research, records and documents searches, and I have been thinking about the dates and times and locations of the GB4. I find the dates very fascinating, particularly the break in 2008. Also, the date of MB's disappearance and the ensuing calls to the sister. I would love to know the exact dates of those calls as well as the pings on MB's phone. And finally, the call to the mother at her job by someone pretending to be LE....something about all these dates is stirring in my head, and I'm trying to sort it out and make sense of it. IMHO, the dates are extremely critical to this case and figuring out who is responsible and determining the significance of the dates.

The article I refrenced in the Time Line only said the calls were made in the weeks after MB went missing. I will search some more and see if I can find the exact dates. And I believe there is a map in the map section of the tower pings. **** No maps of the pings in the map section****
 
"Jul 9 07- IS A MONDAY Five days after Indep. Day
Jul 12 09 - IS A SUNDAY Eight days after Indep. Day
Jun 6 10- IS A SUNDAY Six days after Memorial Day
Sep 2 10- IS A THURSDAY. Four days before Labour Day"

- I don't know if this was said before.....

If the unsub was acting as a personal assistant to someone famous, I can see the possibility of them letting their guard down...Now think about this.

What concerts were @ Jones Beach on those nights? Might this person have posed as someone on tour with a big act? Offer a chance for the girls to meet the band? Leave your phone home because they don't allow them backstage??

If anyone has the time to run those dates against the show schedule @ JB, that would be great!! If not, I'll try to do it later tonight after work.

Oh and BTW. I know the area very well. America ave is actually in North Babylon as well as West Babylon....Depends if your on the east end of the street or the west. :rocker:

If she was by Belmont ave -> North Babylon.
Little East Neck -> West Babylon.
Doesn't really matter, just wanted to throw it out there.
 
Thanks so much for doing that timeline for us, Nutzger. It makes a HUGE difference when you can actually see these dates laid out!
 
I see nothing either. Any other 'traveling' type events that might share those dates? Maybe an annual party or festival?
 
I have always thought maybe his family goes away to visit other relatives during the holidays and he has some excuse to stay behind. Or could he have a job where he can claim he is working overtime, holiday pay and has an excuse to be away.
 
I have always thought maybe his family goes away to visit other relatives during the holidays and he has some excuse to stay behind. Or could he have a job where he can claim he is working overtime, holiday pay and has an excuse to be away.

Very possible. It just seems strange. Hire a prostitue on a Monday, Sunday or a thursday? I would think that would be a week end activity. But maybe I am just ignorant to that activity.
Intresting is the holiday connection. Seems too good to be true that the girls went missing around a holiday. This should be something we should start sluething to possibly clear one or all of the usual suspects (JB, CHP, ect). It should be easy to find something.
 
Vacation houses for rent in the area? It would be possible that our SK lives in NYC and rents a house for these holiday weeks?
 
@Sistah Sleuth: Living between the timezones as I am, I know a lot about never sleeping. It's annoying! But now serious, try to see that from the point of view of a John. Say, it's midnight, you feel the sudden urge to make out with a prostitute. You maybe contact via Craigslist (we ignore for the moment, that LE didn't find such a contact on Maureen's computer). What would happen, if there is no answer in like 60 minutes? Craigslist is full, out hypothetical John would just look for another prostitute.
Or he is someone, who had business with Maureen already several times. What is he doing, if his messages go to voice mail? I don't think, she would be the only prostitute in his book.

@nugzter: Thanks for the timeline. Now, the question, is why would he still drop bodies in the area after the Shannan Gilbert stunt went so awry? Scenario 1 would be, of course, SG is unconnected and only by accident in the same area. Scenario 2 however is a little bit more complex. The dump site itself was still uncompromised. A lot of serial killers would hang on to it in such a situation. To have no remorse and to have no emotional binding to the bodies doesn't mean, they don't have some pride in their work.
All four murders happened between June and September. This is the reason, I estimated, he would have some kind of seasonal work. Now we have end of September, which, if I'm not totally wrong, means, he is off to warmer areas. But I can easily imagine, that he killed between June and mid September another prostitute in the wider area to open a new collection, after his old dump site was compromised.
Another point, that makes me wonder: He killed three times approximately a eek after the holiday weekends, i.e. after LI was crowded. Those weekends are peak times, he waited till the crowd was thinned out. But in the last case, Amber Lynn Costello, he grabs her BEFORE the peak weekend. If he is on some kind of seasonal rhythm, this could indicate, Labor Day is kind of a deadline for him.
The other question is the cool down time. In this case, they appear long, but diminishing. But of course, it can be, it only appears that way because he kills elsewhere and we don't know it yet. But if not ... this reminds me a bit to Dahmer's development curve. A slow developer then, and therefore probably not a psychopath in his first diagnosis.
And then, there is the story with those calls in the Barthelmy case. LE didn't tell us too much, so it's hard to figure something out from the content. But if I piece all the articles together, it seems, he called one or two times, then there came the call in which he told the sister, he killed Melissa. That one was from Gilgo Beach. I don't know if he called later again. But except for the one "he killed her call", they were all pinged at places in NYC. Madison Square Gardens and Times Square were mentioned in the media.

@PickleChris: The point, that confuses me more is his sudden aversion against cell phones. Because he had a lot of fun with Melissa's cell. So, if the client and the killer are not the same person (and how many clients would there be spending a $1000 on B-class prostitutes?), then why the thing with forbidding phones after Melissa Barthelmy? We know from Maureen's case, she made it out alive there, because she later deposited money and made phone calls after she was robbed. So out client is not the killer, but what if there is another connection between killer and client?
Traveling types as in some craftsmen in the construction industry. Some, especially in the areas of carpentering and landscaping seem to travel: East Coast in Summer, then to the West in Fall and down to the Southwest, where construction is going on over winter. For them, Independence Day and memorial day would be also free weekends and such freelancer construction workers would move about or at Labor Day weekend.
 
Thank you to PeterBrendt and MK for posting some good info about dates and seasons. I have compiled all the information about MB I could find...I started with her because I think this where the SK has revealed himself in a variety of forms. Something about the dates off all the victims, and the phone calls to the sister and bf are gnawing at me, stirring around in my head and I'm slowly grinding them out to try and find something. Anyway to me, for whatever reason (probably MB revealed personal info, more than the other victims) this is as much info as I have to go on in researching the SK...

-July 12, 2009- MB last seen
*Notes: MB apparently told BF Johnny Terry she might go to LI this night. Terry tells LE Melissa had a regular older client in LI and occasionally he drove her to his house, however this night she was very secretive about it.
*Notes: MB fails to show to meet a client in Jersey City
-July 12, 2009- MB voicemail pinged from Massepequa...eventually LE discerns two traces come from Budget Inn and Best Western hotel (exact dates not provided)
-A few days after July 12 - MB's sister recieves a call from MB's cell phone with a man on the phone and this begins a series of calls to MB's sister from her cell phone.
*Notes- Calls eventually traced to Midtown, locations searched include MSG, Port Authority, Penn St., and Times Square. Unknown person calling sister will only speak to her, hung up once when MB's mother answered. Continually taunts sister, calling MB a "*advertiser censored*" and sister a "halfbreed"
- 1 month after MB disappears (August 2009), Johnny Terry begins to receive calls from unknown person, asking about MB and describing his tattoos, JT describes him as older, white, and drunk half the time.
*Notes: MB had a tattoo of JT's nickname "Blaze" on her back. Calls last approx 8 months. Calls come from burner phones, registered to Mickey Mouse.
- August 29, 2009: Last call made to sister from MB's phone, describing how he had sex with her, then killed her. It is believed that calls ended when a news report surfaced of MB's sister receiving communication from SK.
- Notes: It is also known that throughout period of communication, MB's sister also recieved text messages from MB's phone...it is not known the context of the messages
 
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