The Kel Tec PF9 Handgun and Firearm Law Thread

[rossva]

Thread this was posted on was closed for going OT, but I think it is appropriate for this topic. GSR does apply to the handgun.


Actually, peeing on your hands does quite the opposite.

"Chemical analysis looks closely for byproducts of the burning of primer and gun powder. Specifically, forensic scientists look for the metals lead, antimony, and barium. The Q-tip or filter paper is then treated with a solution of diphenylamine, a chemical that interacts with metals by producing a color change. The test is positive if the color blue is produced. However, this test could be a false-positive result. Nitrogen-containing compounds such as fertilizer, tobacco, cosmetics, and urine can also interact with the amino group of diphenylamine to contribute to this false-positive."

Article Source: http://EzineArticles.com/917279

Also, iirc, the OP also stated (didn't save entire post, so I may be wrong here) that the GHSR test wasn't done until 4 hours later.

"GSR testing must be conducted right away after a gun is fired because GSR tends to fade away quickly and usually disappears after approximately two hours."

Article Source: http://EzineArticles.com/917279




Originally Posted by Dr.Fessel
It is not a big deal but I think getting pee on your hands nullifies a GSR test as far as evidence goes. I think that is one reason they usually do them fast.

 

[ariesgodofwar]

"GSR testing must be conducted right away after a gun is fired because GSR tends to fade away quickly and usually disappears after approximately two hours."

Article Source: http://EzineArticles.com/917279

The above is inaccurate. Here is an actual scientific study on the average detectability of GSR: http://science.kennesaw.edu/~cdockery/docs/applied_spectroscopy_62(11).pdf

Conclusion was detection was still possible an average of 5.27 Days after firing

 

[ariesgodofwar]

Thread this was posted on was closed for going OT, but I think it is appropriate for this topic. GSR does apply to the handgun.


Actually, peeing on your hands does quite the opposite.

"Chemical analysis looks closely for byproducts of the burning of primer and gun powder. Specifically, forensic scientists look for the metals lead, antimony, and barium. The Q-tip or filter paper is then treated with a solution of diphenylamine, a chemical that interacts with metals by producing a color change. The test is positive if the color blue is produced. However, this test could be a false-positive result. Nitrogen-containing compounds such as fertilizer, tobacco, cosmetics, and urine can also interact with the amino group of diphenylamine to contribute to this false-positive."

Article Source: http://EzineArticles.com/917279

Also not true, modern GSR tests are no longer Chemical Assay (unless they are the quick tests), they use LIBS-Laser Induced Breakdown Spectogrophy. See: http://science.kennesaw.edu/~cdockery/docs/applied_spectroscopy_62(11).pdf

The swipe test may be organic based, but current tests actually test for non organic metal molecules such as Antimony, Bismuth, and a few other metals depending (Barium, Lead). The Chemical Assay tests are very old (1950s-60s science) and were very prone to false positive.

In any case, George admits to firing the gun, so it is a non-issue.

A poster talked about prints, the only conclusive prints were Georges on the Grip and the prints on the slide were the only other prints found, but were inconclusive, so therefore, I am not sure one could definitively say there was no struggle for the weapon for certain. I think the inconclusive result for prints on the slide is basically a "maybe".

 

[ariesgodofwar]

He would have had to hold his weapon less than 3 inches away from his nose for the injuries to occur. Not very likely given that he was TRAINED on how to use his weapon.

^This, and the fact that if a firearm discharged 3 inches from GZ's face, at minimum, his ear drums would be perforated, and possibly completely blown out. GZ would have been very disoriented and have a great deal of trouble hearing anything. While, there was talk of him being disoriented, there is nothing I have seen to indicate that he had any hearing issues as a result, which you would see in such a close range discharge near the ears without hearing protection.

 

[RANCH]

Also not true, modern GSR tests are no longer Chemical Assay (unless they are the quick tests), they use LIBS-Laser Induced Breakdown Spectogrophy. See: http://science.kennesaw.edu/~cdockery/docs/applied_spectroscopy_62(11).pdf

The swipe test may be organic based, but current tests actually test for non organic metal molecules such as Antimony, Bismuth, and a few other metals depending (Barium, Lead). The Chemical Assay tests are very old (1950s-60s science) and were very prone to false positive.

In any case, George admits to firing the gun, so it is a non-issue.

A poster talked about prints, the only conclusive prints were Georges on the Grip and the prints on the slide were the only other prints found, but were inconclusive, so therefore, I am not sure one could definitively say there was no struggle for the weapon for certain. I think the inconclusive result for prints on the slide is basically a "maybe".

Thanks for the link Aries. It looks like the FDLE used a scanning electron microscope (SEM) to test GZ for GSR.

Page 117
http://www.scribd.com/doc/93951121/State-v-Zimmerman-Evidence-released-by-prosecutor

 

[RANCH]

And let's not forget, using hollow point bullets in order to further ensure a kill.

I've seen a lot of post's about hollow point bullets being used by GZ. I'm curious why people believe that these bullets are somehow magical in nature, giving the person who possesses them a more evil and sinister persona.

If GZ used "Full Metal Jacket" bullets would his persona be viewed differently?

 

[rotterdam]

I've seen a lot of post's about hollow point bullets being used by GZ. I'm curious why people believe that these bullets are somehow magical in nature, giving the person who possesses them a more evil and sinister persona.

If GZ used "Full Metal Jacket" bullets would his persona be viewed differently?

I do not think it makes a responsible gun owner evil. Most gun owners hope they never ever have to kill a person IMO. And when in real peril for yourself or loved ones, hollow points make sense. They have ultimate stopping power and are less likely to accidentally hit a second person since they quite often remain lodged in the body, as evidenced by Trayvon.

If I would be working in a type of store that is high on the wish list for robberies, it would be my bullet of choice. Face it, if you ever are forced to shoot at somebody(and I hope you never will), you generally shoot to kill, not to maim. If you only want to maim or frighten , you probably should not be shooting at all .All IMO.