The McCanns' Own Words

[SapphireSteel]

The McCanns story CHANGED.

On the evening of the abduction they stated several times that the windows had been "jemmied".

Later, Clarence Mitchell corrected this -

THE spokesman for the family of Madeleine McCann has reversed a statement made in the early days of the search for the missing child.


Speaking to RTE's 'Prime Time', Clarence Mitchell said she could "easily" have been kidnapped by an abductor who did not leave the trail of a break-in.

However, in the early part of the hunt, friends and family members told journalists that the shutter on the apartment where the McCanns were staying had been broken.

Mr Mitchell made his comments when questioned by a 'Prime Time' team in a report on the disappearance to be screened tomorrow. "There was no evidence of a break-in," said Mr Mitchell.

"I'm not going into the detail, but I can say that Kate and Gerry are firmly of the view that somebody got into the apartment and took Madeleine out the window as their means of escape, and to do that they did not necessarily have to tamper with anything. They got out of the window fairly easily."

http://www.independent.ie/world-new...erse-story-over-breakin-evidence-1203473.html

 

[brit1981]

No the mccanns' story has not changed, it was other people who said they thought the window had been jemmied, not actually the mccanns themselves. There has never been one direct quote from either of the mccanns stating the window was jemmied.

besides even if it were true it is not suspicious. If one leaves a window closed and comes back to find it open it would be automatic to think it had been forced fromt he outside. At the time the mccanns were not aware the front door had a dodgy lock, and the window and shutter could be opened from the outside.

 

[SapphireSteel]

No the mccanns' story has not changed, it was other people who said they thought the window had been jemmied, not actually the mccanns themselves. There has never been one direct quote from either of the mccanns stating the window was jemmied.

besides even if it were true it is not suspicious. If one leaves a window closed and comes back to find it open it would be automatic to think it had been forced fromt he outside. At the time the mccanns were not aware the front door had a dodgy lock, and the window and shutter could be opened from the outside.

Perhaps not, but there is a myriad of credible witnesses (mostly McCann immediate family and friends) who state that Gerry told them exactly that, including Kate's father.


Mark Warner, the holiday firm which runs the luxury resort, claimed last night there was no sign of a break in at the ground floor apartment overlooking the sea. But Brian Healy, Madeleine's maternal grandfather, told the Guardian his son-in-law had phoned him shortly after returning to the apartment from a nearby restaurant to find Madeleine had disappeared.

"Gerry told me when they went back the shutters to the room were broken, they were jemmied up and she was gone," said Mr Healy. "She'd been taken from the chalet. The door was open."

Are you accusing Mr Healy and all the other witnesses of being untruthful?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2007/may/05/world.topstories31

 

[brit1981]

I am saying a vague news report is not evidence. news papers also reported that witnesses outside the tapas nine saw murat there, but this was ruled incorrect.

By the way are you going to post your evidence regarding the FSs, and the "cover-up at the hihest level". So far you just keep saying the wikileaks cable proves all of your claims, but it doe snot at all.

 

[fabgod]

Perhaps not, but there is a myriad of credible witnesses (mostly McCann immediate family and friends) who state that Gerry told them exactly that, including Kate's father.


Mark Warner, the holiday firm which runs the luxury resort, claimed last night there was no sign of a break in at the ground floor apartment overlooking the sea. But Brian Healy, Madeleine's maternal grandfather, told the Guardian his son-in-law had phoned him shortly after returning to the apartment from a nearby restaurant to find Madeleine had disappeared.

"Gerry told me when they went back the shutters to the room were broken, they were jemmied up and she was gone," said Mr Healy. "She'd been taken from the chalet. The door was open."

Are you accusing Mr Healy and all the other witnesses of being untruthful?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2007/may/05/world.topstories31

Philomena McCann, Jill Renwick, Jon Corner, Brian Healy all told by Gerry McCann that the shutters had been jemmied, forced etc

 

[rashomon]

From the PJ Police Files:

[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]Witness statement of Gerald Patrick McCann, on the 10th of May 2007, at 3.20 p.m.
[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]At 20H35, they left the apartment towards the “TAPAS”. Before they left, and because the children's bedroom door was ajar as always, he opened it a little more, listening from the outside and, as there was complete silence, he did not even enter, returning the door to its previous position, with a space of about 10cm.
[/FONT]http://www.mccannfiles.com/id192.html#sta1

Gerry's statement that the children's bedroom door "was ajar as always", completely contradicts Kate's alleged surprise about that door being ajar when she went to check on the children. [FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]

[ETA: correction of an English language mistake I made re "ajar". I thought "ajar" meant 'wide open' and not just partly open].
[/FONT]

 

[brit1981]

They said the left it ajar, but it was more ajar than they left it. they both stated this.

Not one report directly quotes the mccanns saying thw window was jemmied. It is just people they called. I do not think the confusion is suspicious, not do I think that IF the mccanns had thought the window had been forced it is suspicious. If I did not know the window could be opened from the outside, and that the front door could be opened from the outside whilst locked, and I found the window open when I left it closed I woudl initially think it had been forced, and I can imagien when I called people, distraught, I might not be very clear.

 

[SapphireSteel]

They said the left it ajar, but it was more ajar than they left it. they both stated this.

Not one report directly quotes the mccanns saying thw window was jemmied. It is just people they called. I do not think the confusion is suspicious, not do I think that IF the mccanns had thought the window had been forced it is suspicious. If I did not know the window could be opened from the outside, and that the front door could be opened from the outside whilst locked, and I found the window open when I left it closed I woudl initially think it had been forced, and I can imagien when I called people, distraught, I might not be very clear.

Do you think the people they called simultaneously misheard what Kate and Gerry said?

Every single one of them states they were told that the window was "jemmied"...yet you believe this was an embellishment by those people?

I would say the contents of those horrible phone calls would be engraved on their brains, every word.

The only explanation for this extraordinary coincidence is that they are telling the truth.

 

[rashomon]

They said the left it ajar, but it was more ajar than they left it. they both stated this.

Sorry, my mistake: I'm no native speaker of English and thought "ajar" meant 'wide open'.

 

[fabgod]

They said the left it ajar, but it was more ajar than they left it. they both stated this.

Not one report directly quotes the mccanns saying thw window was jemmied. It is just people they called. I do not think the confusion is suspicious, not do I think that IF the mccanns had thought the window had been forced it is suspicious. If I did not know the window could be opened from the outside, and that the front door could be opened from the outside whilst locked, and I found the window open when I left it closed I woudl initially think it had been forced, and I can imagien when I called people, distraught, I might not be very clear.

So ringing the family members including Kate McCanns father and Gerry McCanns sister and the aforementioned people all stating independently the same thing, means nothing?

The window was not opened from the outside as far as we know and also as far as we know, couldnt be opened from the outside.
Only the shutter could be moved up and apparently it was hard to do and according to some reports, noisy.
Before you state it for the millionth time, we know its a moot point because the patio door was unlocked and the front door could possibly have had a problem unknown to the McCanns in that it could have possibly been opened from the outside.

Its safe to say , that Gerry McCann did state to family members that the shutters were jemmied or forced - thats that cleared up, next!

 

[SapphireSteel]

Personally I wonder at the motivation of calling friends and family at 3am, at all.

Those people were thousands of km away, what good could it possibly do to waken them all with such horrible news?

A sensible reaction would be to wait until at least day break, to confirm that Madeline indeed had not curled up somewhere she shouldn't be, once a daylight search was done. Kates parents were elderley and rousing them in the early hours of the morning to state their granddaughter had been "abducted" (when this hadn't actually been confirmed) seems to me to be an extreme reaction.

:moo:

 

[brit1981]

No relative has since said the mccanns specifically said the windows had been jemmied. the samw media reports stating this at the time also stated that Kate said there was a high shelf in the room that the toy cat had been placed on according to relatives, but there was no shelf and no-one has ever confirmed that this was said. So we have a few confused earlier reports in the media which people are using as evidence, even though not one person has confirmed they are accurate! At the time I read conflicting reports in the media too. I have also read reports where one relatives said Gerry said the window must have been forced, and she added something like "jemmied or something you know". She never said the jemmied bit was from Gerry.
And what does it matter if the mccanns had thought the window had been jemmied, I can imagine making that call, telling relatives osmeone had got in throught the window, and when they asked how they opened it saying something like " i don't know it must have been forced, jemmied or soemthing". I am not saying that is what Gerry said, but I am pointing out it is nto exactly suspicious for someone to have made a mistake like this at 3 am in the mornign when they are paniking.
And I would call relatives at 3 am if my child was missing.

To be honest saying that unconfirmed reports in the media claiming Gerry told relatives that the window was jemmied are suspicious because it turned out this was incorrect is rather weak.

 

[SapphireSteel]

No relative has since said the mccanns specifically said the windows had been jemmied. the samw media reports stating this at the time also stated that Kate said there was a high shelf in the room that the toy cat had been placed on according to relatives, but there was no shelf and no-one has ever confirmed that this was said. So we have a few confused earlier reports in the media which people are using as evidence, even though not one person has confirmed they are accurate! At the time I read conflicting reports in the media too. I have also read reports where one relatives said Gerry said the window must have been forced, and she added something like "jemmied or something you know". She never said the jemmied bit was from Gerry.
And what does it matter if the mccanns had thought the window had been jemmied, I can imagine making that call, telling relatives osmeone had got in throught the window, and when they asked how they opened it saying something like " i don't know it must have been forced, jemmied or soemthing". I am not saying that is what Gerry said, but I am pointing out it is nto exactly suspicious for someone to have made a mistake like this at 3 am in the mornign when they are paniking.
And I would call relatives at 3 am if my child was missing.

To be honest saying that unconfirmed reports in the media claiming Gerry told relatives that the window was jemmied are suspicious because it turned out this was incorrect is rather weak.

It matters because it is yet another unexplicable inconsistency in their story.

Just like JonBenets pineapple, it is "out of place", and an indicator of deception.

Also like JBR, the parents DID NOT expect to become suspects and be examined so thoroughly.

I am sure if they attempted to steer an investigation again, they would be careful not state such blatant untruths...but they did, unless all friends and relatives were also lying, which seems to be what you are implying.

 

[brit1981]

But it is not an incosistency. No witness statement to the police has the mccanns stating the window was jemmied. We have unreliable media reports saying friends thought it had been jemmied. Not one direct quote attributes the jemmied claim to the mccanns. But if they thought the window was closed when they left, and it was open upon their return and they had not realised it could be opened from the outside then the automatic thought would be it had been forced i.e jemmied. The mccanns did not conduct an in depth examination of the window.
And the media that were making the jemmied claims were the same media who have since admitted printing false stories about people including the mccanns, and have in recent days claimed a young women called Tia Sharp was found in a rigid red case, then changed their story to claim she was found in a sheet and bin liners. So it is nto exactly proof.

 

[rashomon]

The McCanns' earlier statements are of particular interest because at that stage, they had not yet the time to 'fine-tune' their story and weed out possible discrepancies.

[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]Witness statement of Gerald Patrick McCann, on the 4th of May 2007, at 11.15 a.m.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]Thus, at 9.05 pm, the deponent entered the club, using his key, the door being locked, and went to the children's bedroom and noted that the twins and Madeleine were in perfect condition.
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id192.html#sta4[/FONT]

Imo Gerry's statement about having had to open the locked door with a key served the purpose to convey to the police that the McCanns had taken every precaution to leave the children behind 'safe'.
The unlocked patio door blatantly contradicts this of course, but I think Gerry was in an emotionally stressful situation where the wish to convince the police that the children had been "safe" led him to present this version despite the discrepancy evidenced by the unlocked patio door.
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]
Not only does Gerry state that he opened the door with a key, he says the same of Kate:
[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]Witness statement of Gerald Patrick McCann, on the 4th of May 2007, at 11.15 a.m.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]At 10pm, his wife Kate went to check on the children. She went into the apartment through the door using her key and saw right away that the children’s bedroom door was completely open, the window was also open, the shutters raised and the curtains drawn open. The side door that opens into the living room, which as said earlier, was never locked, was closed.
[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]
Imo there is no doubt that this initial 'both parents opened the locked door with a key' version presented by Gerry on May 4th served the above-mentioned purpose.


[/FONT]

 

[brit1981]

Personally i think the key thing was a mistake in the taking down of the report. If you are speaking you woudl never mention you had a key, you would just say I unlocked the door. I personally think there was confusion about which was the back door and which was the front. The police knew that the front door needed a key, but due to its position thought when he said he used the back door (the patio door) he meant the front door. But it is a weak inconsistency anyway, especially given thta Gerry did not understand what he was signing. This is why i do not understand how they do statements with people who do not speka the language. It shoudl eb the person signs a statement in their own language and the translator signs the translation saying that they belive this to be an accurate translation. It shoudl not be that people are told to sign that soemthing they do not understand is true. I have given a statement in my own language before and found the police had changed little tiny things in it. Not much, but enough to make the sense of it seem different to me, and if that had been translated it would be even worse.

 

[rashomon]

Personally i think the key thing was a mistake in the taking down of the report. If you are speaking you woudl never mention you had a key, you would just say I unlocked the door. I personally think there was confusion about which was the back door and which was the front. The police knew that the front door needed a key, but due to its position thought when he said he used the back door (the patio door) he meant the front door. But it is a weak inconsistency anyway, especially given thta Gerry did not understand what he was signing. This is why i do not understand how they do statements with people who do not speka the language. It shoudl eb the person signs a statement in their own language and the translator signs the translation saying that they belive this to be an accurate translation. It shoudl not be that people are told to sign that soemthing they do not understand is true. I have given a statement in my own language before and found the police had changed little tiny things in it. Not much, but enough to make the sense of it seem different to me, and if that had been translated it would be even worse.

The term "key" is explicitly listed twice ine the translation of Gerry's May 4/2007 witness statement, which makes it highly unlikely that it was a mistake in the taking down of the report.
There was no confusion either about which was the front door and which was the patio door, for the unlocked patio door is mentioned in the same witness statement:

[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]http://www.mccannfiles.com/id192.html#sta4[/FONT]
[bolded italics mine]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]Witness statement of Gerald Patrick McCann, on the 4th of May 2007, at 11.15 a.m.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]Thus, at 9.05 pm, the deponent entered the club, using his key, the door being locked, and went to the children's bedroom and noted that the twins and Madeleine were in perfect condition.
[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]Witness statement of Gerald Patrick McCann, on the 4th of May 2007, at 11.15 a.m.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]At 10pm, his wife Kate went to check on the children. She went into the apartment through the door using her key and saw right away that the children’s bedroom door was completely open, the window was also open, the shutters raised and the curtains drawn open. The side door that opens into the living room, which as said earlier, was never locked, was closed.[/FONT]

 

[brit1981]

Gerry cannot say how kate opened the door as he was not there, and these are translations and not even official ones. do you have a link to the originals I could not find them.
but it is not really suspicious anyway.

 

[SapphireSteel]

Gerry cannot say how kate opened the door as he was not there, and these are translations and not even official ones. do you have a link to the originals I could not find them.
but it is not really suspicious anyway.

Yet, he did say, per his signed witness statement dated 4 May 2007 -

Processos Vol I, pages 34 - 41
Location: CID Portimão

Yesterday, after the daily routine, MADELEINE and the twins were put to bed in their respective beds...deponent or his wife went to check if the children were ok. Thus, at 9.05 pm, the deponent entered the club, using his key, the door being locked, and went to the children's bedroom and noted that the twins and Madeleine were in perfect condition...At around 9.30 pm, his friend MATT (a member of the group) went to his apartment where his own children were, and on his way he went into the deponent's apartment, going in through a sliding glass door at the side of the building, which was always unlocked...At 10pm, his wife Kate went to check on the children. She went into the apartment through the door using her key and saw right away that the children’s bedroom door was completely open, the window was also open, the shutters raised and the curtains drawn open. The side door that opens into the living room, which as said earlier, was never locked, was closed.

:banghead: