The oversized Bloomingdale’s panties.

[Userid]

Again, it is crucial to know whether or not LE recovered any of the size 6 day of the week Bloomies for reasons I have stated in my last post. If LE found 6 pairs of size 6 day of the week Bloomies with Wednesday missing that would go a long way towards establishing that she was redressed into the size 12s and that the size 6 Wednesday pair was discarded. Without knowing this, however, we cannot properly assess Patsy's responses.

Exactly! And if these 6 pairs were recovered, and the size 12 was used in place of the size 6 because someone at FW's Christmas party knew JBR was wearing Bloomies, that would be a critical piece of information -- but like you say, we don't know if any size 6 Bloomies were ever found at all. That has never been reported and is strictly based on conjecture.

 

[UKGuy]

They know she was found in size 12 underwear. Nothing more. You're taking way too many liberties here.

Again, there is zero evidence there were any (not only Wednesday, but any) size 6 Bloomies in her drawer at all. You're simply assuming such.

Userid,
Its you that wants it to be conjecture and assumption. It might have that status for us but not for the BPD.

They have seen the underwear, size-6 and days of the week according to Patsy in her interview with Haney.

The BPD know the answer to the Wednesday size-6 issue, we do not.

Just like when they caught Patsy out on the size-12's, why? Because they knew what was in JonBenet's underwear drawer Patsy did not!

Just like you.


.

 

[Userid]

^ This is hilarious.

You're assuming they know. Nothing more. You don't know they saw size 6 Bloomies in her drawer; you're simply assuming. You can at least explain that you're assuming, so people don't take this as fact; then I'd have no issue. But you're basing this unproven theory on PR saying she bought size 6 Bloomies for JBR, which doesn't prove that any were ever recovered. She could have just as easily A) been lying, like she always does, or B) simply mis-remembered, and perhaps bought her another set, etc.

 

[UKGuy]

^ This is hilarious.

You're assuming they know. Nothing more. You don't know they saw size 6 Bloomies in her drawer; you're simply assuming. You can at least explain that you're assuming, so people don't take this as fact; then I'd have no issue. But you're basing this unproven theory on PR saying she bought size 6 Bloomies for JBR, which doesn't prove that any were ever recovered. She could have just as easily A) been lying, like she always does, or B) simply mis-remembered, and perhaps bought her another set, etc.

Userid,
BBM: They do know. Its you that does not know and are playing games with my assumptions.

My assumptions are necessarily different from those of the BPD, simply because they can verify what make of underwear was in JonBenet's drawer.

How simple is that, like look at the pants and pronounce Bloomingdale's or not?

I repeat for your delectation, or is it comprehension: BPD know whether there were size-6 Bloomingdale's in JonBenet's underwear drawer.

We do not!

She could have just as easily
A) been lying, like she always does, or
B) simply mis-remembered, and
perhaps bought her another set, etc.

Your conjecture is no different from mine, why should anyone elevate yours over mine?

BPD already know the answers to A, B, and your perhaps.


Since I know with absolute certainty that BPD have the answers on the size-6 Bloomingdale underwear I'm perfectly at liberty to speculate and theorise on this aspect.


That's what we are here for: to offer opinion and speculate on the case.

.

 

[Userid]

^ I realize my conjecture is no different than yours; where we differ however, is that I call my conjecture, "conjecture" and I don't pawn it off as fact. Again, I just wish you could do the same; it would help separate fact from fiction and make the case easier to dissect.

You don't know what BPD knows or doesn't know, because you aren't and never were BPD; so stop acting like it. The end.

 

[k-mac]

its been bugging me lately why the ramseys turned over the packet of bloomies.
what was in it for them?
their theory has always hinged on the foreign dna in those bloomies.....which I think we are all comfortable with the revelation that its most likely touch dna from a factory worker.
so....why hand it over later.the rest of the pairs could likely have same said dna contamination which would disprove their theory that it was an intruder.
unless it was another new packet of bloomies...which of course would have different touch dna again...boom!!!
creates one isolated pair of bloomies with foreign dna !!!!

 

[UKGuy]

its been bugging me lately why the ramseys turned over the packet of bloomies.
what was in it for them?
their theory has always hinged on the foreign dna in those bloomies.....which I think we are all comfortable with the revelation that its most likely touch dna from a factory worker.
so....why hand it over later.the rest of the pairs could likely have same said dna contamination which would disprove their theory that it was an intruder.
unless it was another new packet of bloomies...which of course would have different touch dna again...boom!!!
creates one isolated pair of bloomies with foreign dna !!!!

k-mac,
What if the same foreign dna was present in all the size-12's returned, but different to that foreign dna found on the pair worn by JonBenet?

In fact I would predict this up front, did the Ramsey's?

Since Patsy was shielding Burke by fabricating a story about JonBenet wanting the size-12's, despite Patsy being able to phone Bloomingdales any day of the week to order size-12's for JonBenet, unless the R's want to claim the intruder left with the size-12's they needed to find the size-12's to validate Patsy's story.

JonBenet wearing those size-12's is one red flag, a detail neither Patsy or John would have implemented if they themselves were staging the crime-scene from scratch.

Add in the other red flag, Burke Ramsey's long johns and it becomes obvious it was Burke who redressed JonBenet, and as a child the size and gender of his long johns were lost on him.

The case is BDI all day long with help from Momma.

.

 

[MURDERER_SERVANT]

There was obviously a need to change the panties . Is it possible that to paint an intruder scenario in mind, the stager thought that a mother and a father would know the proper size for their kid so putting on her big size panties would be a clever move to exclude themselves being suspects and point the finger to an intruder ?
It seems that the total frame of mind was staging at that point.

BTW methinks if B were the one to change the panties, he wouldn't bother to get it from the unopened package but get the first one available from the drawer not matter stained or what.

 

[UKGuy]

There was obviously a need to change the panties . Is it possible that to paint an intruder scenario in mind, the stager thought that a mother and a father would know the proper size for their kid so putting on her big size panties would be a clever move to exclude themselves being suspects and point the finger to an intruder ?
It seems that the total frame of mind was staging at that point.

BTW methinks if B were the one to change the panties, he wouldn't bother to get it from the unopened package but get the first one available from the drawer not matter stained or what.

MURDERER_SERVANT,
It depends where it all took place, Burke's bedroom means he has to travel to fetch a pair, JonBenet's bedroom is redundant as she had a drawer of underwear, the basement suggests availability along with Burke knowing where they are?

The other aspect is that Kolar thinks BR took JonBenet down to the basement, he also thinks the Opened Gifts played a role, so I can see BR opening Jenny's size-12's to place on JonBenet, then taking off his own long johns and putting these on JonBenet, all within the confines of the basement?

Patsy awoke the next morning to find JonBenet missing, did a search amd found her in the basement, amateurishly staged, patently by Burke, so she and JR staged it all away, lying on BR's behalf. No wonder he was all smiles at the funeral and on Dr Phil, he must feel righteous since his parents fixed it for him!

.

 

[questfortrue]

Just for some clarification.
At the time of JB’s death BR was about a foot taller than his sister. There’s an online photo of the White children, BR and JB in a field of pumpkins which depicts the significant height difference between BR and JB. For that reason, I suspect those boy long johns found on JB were hand-me-downs which Patsy gave JB when BR outgrew them. Former housekeeper LW related an incident where JR is dressing JB, and he becomes frustrated with how he can't find matching clothes, because JB is wearing Burke's hand-me-downs and doesn't really have her own clothes.

Then there’s an interesting exchange about laundry between TD and Patsy. Regarding the laundry area, I reviewed both the basement and the second floor areas and only a couple of items hung from the ironing board on the second floor. So I’m conjecturing that the wall mentioned in the interview may be in the basement area, as there are other items hung up here and there near the basement laundry.

15 TRIP DEMUTH: What about 384?
16 PATSY RAMSEY: (Inaudible). Something
17 hanging over the wall up there by the laundry to dry.
18 TRIP DEMUTH: Do you recognize what they are?
19 PATSY RAMSEY: It looks like pajamas or
20 something. It looks like Burke's pajamas.
21 TRIP DEMUTH: May be tights.
22 PATSY RAMSEY: You mean leggings or
23 something?
24 TRIP DEMUTH: Right.
25 PATSY RAMSEY: Can't tell whether they are
0463
1 adult or children.
2 TRIP DEMUTH: So you can't tell from that
3 photo what they are?
4 PATSY RAMSEY: No.

I noted that Patsy initially suggests what is hanging up looks like BR’s pajamas. But TD suggests they look more like tights, and Patsy asks whether he means leggings. She suddenly can’t tell whether they are a child’s or an adult's. Leggings, of course, might equal long johns in the context of discussion.

While all of us acknowledge that JB is wearing BR’s long johns, I think it more than likely that they were BR’s hand-me-downs, and no longer fit him. What also appears to be a possible, maybe even likely scenario if JB was redressed in the basement: Whoever dressed her in them could have simply grabbed the smaller pair of long johns which might also have been hanging up in the laundry area. IDK, but it seems like the proximity to a clean article of clothing would carry the most weight in a decision of what to place on her, rather than the significance of them once belonging to BR. It's possible, any of them could have redressed her if the long johns were clean and handy in the basement.

However, I do tend to eliminate BR as the redresser because the forensics of the crime scene seems too clean. The flashlight, RN and the paint brushes are all clean of finger prints. Of course I realize it’s also possible someone came along and wiped off the paint brush of the ligature device and the broken piece within the paint tote, but the Bloomies and long johns are also too clean of family tDNA. Although tDNA was not a factor in the mid-90s, a reasonable alternative conclusion may be that the redresser wore gloves. Respectfully, the question is do we have the world’s most forensically sophisticated 9 year old or do we have adults covering up what happened.

 

[UKGuy]

Just for some clarification.
At the time of JB’s death BR was about a foot taller than his sister. There’s an online photo of the White children, BR and JB in a field of pumpkins which depicts the significant height difference between BR and JB. For that reason, I suspect those boy long johns found on JB were hand-me-downs which Patsy gave JB when BR outgrew them. Former housekeeper LW related an incident where JR is dressing JB, and he becomes frustrated with how he can't find matching clothes, because JB is wearing Burke's hand-me-downs and doesn't really have her own clothes.

Then there’s an interesting exchange about laundry between TD and Patsy. Regarding the laundry area, I reviewed both the basement and the second floor areas and only a couple of items hung from the ironing board on the second floor. So I’m conjecturing that the wall mentioned in the interview may be in the basement area, as there are other items hung up here and there near the basement laundry.

15 TRIP DEMUTH: What about 384?
16 PATSY RAMSEY: (Inaudible). Something
17 hanging over the wall up there by the laundry to dry.
18 TRIP DEMUTH: Do you recognize what they are?
19 PATSY RAMSEY: It looks like pajamas or
20 something. It looks like Burke's pajamas.
21 TRIP DEMUTH: May be tights.
22 PATSY RAMSEY: You mean leggings or
23 something?
24 TRIP DEMUTH: Right.
25 PATSY RAMSEY: Can't tell whether they are
0463
1 adult or children.
2 TRIP DEMUTH: So you can't tell from that
3 photo what they are?
4 PATSY RAMSEY: No.

I noted that Patsy initially suggests what is hanging up looks like BR’s pajamas. But TD suggests they look more like tights, and Patsy asks whether he means leggings. She suddenly can’t tell whether they are a child’s or an adult's. Leggings, of course, might equal long johns in the context of discussion.

While all of us acknowledge that JB is wearing BR’s long johns, I think it more than likely that they were BR’s hand-me-downs, and no longer fit him. What also appears to be a possible, maybe even likely scenario if JB was redressed in the basement: Whoever dressed her in them could have simply grabbed the smaller pair of long johns which might also have been hanging up in the laundry area. IDK, but it seems like the proximity to a clean article of clothing would carry the most weight in a decision of what to place on her, rather than the significance of them once belonging to BR. It's possible, any of them could have redressed her if the long johns were clean and handy in the basement.

However, I do tend to eliminate BR as the redresser because the forensics of the crime scene seems too clean. The flashlight, RN and the paint brushes are all clean of finger prints. Of course I realize it’s also possible someone came along and wiped off the paint brush of the ligature device and the broken piece within the paint tote, but the Bloomies and long johns are also too clean of family tDNA. Although tDNA was not a factor in the mid-90s, a reasonable alternative conclusion may be that the redresser wore gloves. Respectfully, the question is do we have the world’s most forensically sophisticated 9 year old or do we have adults covering up what happened.

questfortrue,
Saying the long johns are hand-me-downs is a just-so story, you are attempting to explain away forensic evidence, i.e. it has no probative value.

Nobody has confirmed they were an old pair of BR's long johns, no size information on what was in BR's clothing drawers contrasting it with what JonBenet was wearing has been released, so claims that they must be hand-me-downs is wishful thinking on your part, i.e. a just-so story.

Why would Patsy dress JonBenet in size-12's then forget where she put the remaining pairs? Was JonBenet wearing the Pink Barbie Nightgown prior to being redressed?

No guilty parent is going to dress JonBenet in her brothers long johns and her nieces underwear and think that will look normal when the cops find her!

JonBenet had an extensive wardrobe Patsy could have selected from, any pair of size-6 underwear and any of her gowns or pajama bottoms would have ben sufficient to have us all thinking maybe it was an intruder?

The long johns and size-12's are not some innocent oversight on Patsy's behalf, but a confused attempt at staging by an inexperienced boy. Who thinks precisely because JonBenet has worn my stuff in the past, wearing my long johns tonite is at least explicable in those terms, and the size-12's well they represent female underwear to him, maybe Wednesday was relevant?

The parents, particularly Patsy faked the wine-cellar crime-scene, removing stuff we know nothing about that might incriminate Burke Ramsey. This is why both parents can be linked by forensic evidence to JonBenet.

If events had transpired as in most PDI or JDI theories this means either parent would have all night to clean up, do some realistic staging, and get their story right.

This was not done, The pineapple snack was left in place, JonBenet's bedroom was left a mess. JonBenet was left wearing the size-12's and long johns.

These could have been removed and along with other bloodstained stuff tossed into the washing machine, then tumble dried and we would be none the wiser!

They had ALL night.

So until I get it confirmed that the long johns on JonBenet were two sizes too small for Burke Ramsey your benign story is last on my list of explanations.

.

 

[questfortrue]

questfortrue,

~RSBM~
If events had transpired as in most PDI or JDI theories this means either parent would have all night to clean up, do some realistic staging, and get their story right.

.

Since I was not promoting a PDI or JDI theory, simply looking at staging, I’m not certain who you are addressing.
I am fully aware there isn’t anything which could prove these are BR’s hand-me-downs for you; you’ve made up your mind any information counter to yours is just another ‘just so’ tale, and have stated such. But for the knowledge base of others I’ll add the following.

-FW touched JB’s foot in the wc, and it was cold to the touch.
-Upstairs an Avalanche sweatshirt was thrown on her feet.
Logically one could thus infer, these long johns did not cover her feet. If they were a current fit for BR, according to the sizing of children’s thermal underwear, the legs would have drug on the ground.
Sizing according to U.S. online sources:
JB would have worn a girl’s size 5/6 for a child of her weight and height.
BR was a little taller for his age, and would have worn size 10/12 for his weight and height.

Enough, I feel like I’m discussing Patsy’s statements that the 12-14 size Bloomies weren’t too much bigger than JB’s regular 4-6 size underwear.

But whether I am correct they were hand-me-downs or not, I have already stated that any of them could have placed them on her. However, there are, imo, other factors to consider. One such factor already mentioned is that while BR’s tDNA was found on a nightgown (demonstrating that he did shed tDNA) no such tDNA was found on the Bloomies or long johns. One must then consider whether BR was clever enough to wear gloves when he redressed her. And if he did, then apparently BR used his father’s new Israeli wool shirt to wipe her, inadvertently, tidily leaving fibers in THREE places, though unfortunately, incriminating his father in the redressing. Possible, yes. Probable, well folks can decide for themselves. Here’s a view of the waist fit on the long johns and a revisit of the photo of the long johns.

 

[DeDee]

<RSBM>

But whether I am correct they were hand-me-downs or not, I have already stated that any of them could have placed them on her. However, there are, imo, other factors to consider. One such factor already mentioned is that while BR&#8217;s tDNA was found on a nightgown (demonstrating that he did shed tDNA) no such tDNA was found on the Bloomies or long johns. One must then consider whether BR was clever enough to wear gloves when he redressed her. And if he did, then apparently BR used his father&#8217;s new Israeli wool shirt to wipe her, inadvertently, tidily leaving fibers in THREE places, though unfortunately, incriminating his father in the redressing. Possible, yes. Probable, well folks can decide for themselves. Here&#8217;s a view of the waist fit on the long johns and a revisit of the photo of the long johns.

Oh, how I've grown to detest those nasty long johns and what they represent. It is obvious by glancing at the image of them that they are not long enough for BR. The hem would fall around his knees.

None of us can state with certainty who put those long johns on JB. It blew my mind when I first saw the image. It affirms my opinion of PR which is not all that high.

Patsy was a former beauty queen but Patsy was nasty. She was slovenly. Just one look at the basement tells us that she is unfazed by messiness. Unflushed toilets do not stir her to action. Flashy, flamboyant, ostentatious but did she possess a beautiful heart?

Conversely, JR came from a disciplined military background. His clothing was not found strewn about like the others were. His clothing was probably hung quite neatly in the closet and socks neatly rolled and placed side by side. It must have been difficult to work and arrive home to whatever he found at the end of his day. I envision life with PR was filled with chaos and confusion. Rushing here and there every day. She was busy buying a jacket to match Priscilla's and tape and cording. Maybe some of that haste to maintain a busy lifestyle came about as a result of the cancer scare.

Was BR a difficult delivery for PR? Were there any complications involved at birth? Something, or maybe just his mother dying of cancer, his grandmother, Neddie, moving in and his sister's birth, traumatized him into developing a particular or peculiar personality. I'd never heard of scatagorical behavior until this case and no where else since but in this case.

I do not personally know of a parent who did not or does not hold toilet training as a standard basic to be taught their offspring. PR gets a failing grade in this basic hygiene department. Times two [x2]. How dare she allow FW to change her baby girl's underwear or to call out to anyone to wipe her. FW kept/babysat JB once a week for I don't know how long or why but surely she played with Daphne. Maybe it was when PR was enrolled in the painting classes.

I would certainly be most unhappy if my granddaughters arrived for a visit with staining in every pair of underwear. A child deserves clean underninnies, or new ones, if all others are stained. PR failed again by neglecting to replace the stained undies that had to embarrass or shame JB. It simply was not important to Patsy.

She is slovenly as the basement depicts on the interior of their home but her outer appearance seemed to be one of being well put together just as were the main rooms of the home. PR was her own best PRO [public relations officer] PR was a force to be reckoned with alright. Go back to the da** drawing board!

 

[singularity]

Since I was not promoting a PDI or JDI theory, simply looking at staging, I’m not certain who you are addressing.
I am fully aware there isn’t anything which could prove these are BR’s hand-me-downs for you; you’ve made up your mind any information counter to yours is just another ‘just so’ tale,

If someone isn't simply quoting him and agreeing with him, you're perceived as someone in need of being belittled, mocked, or simply ignored. Every single post of his now contains the exact same thing about the long johns no matter what was being said.

He just ridiculed DeDee's post for the cardinal sin of listing evidence in the case linked to Patsy....and she's BDI!

Its getting ridiculous.

-FW touched JB’s foot in the wc, and it was cold to the touch.
-Upstairs an Avalanche sweatshirt was thrown on her feet.
Logically one could thus infer, these long johns did not cover her feet. If they were a current fit for BR, according to the sizing of children’s thermal underwear, the legs would have drug on the ground.
Sizing according to U.S. online sources:
JB would have worn a girl’s size 5/6 for a child of her weight and height.
BR was a little taller for his age, and would have worn size 10/12 for his weight and height.

Great points.

Especially this....

If they were a current fit for BR, according to the sizing of children’s thermal underwear, the legs would have drug on the ground.

Enough, I feel like I’m discussing Patsy’s statements that the 12-14 size Bloomies weren’t too much bigger than JB’s regular 4-6 size underwear.

Don't have to explain yourself for having opinions on the case.

I can assure you that many of us like to read different view points on these subjects.

Thanks for posting the pics again which rarely happens in the middle of the never ending, continuous longjohns discussions. I've viewed the pics before obviously but seeing them again really highlights their small size.

Hand me downs indeed. he probably hadn't actually worn those in two or three years....maybe longer.

Oh, how I've grown to detest those nasty long johns and what they represent.

You're not the only one....


Newcomers to the case probably think its the only evidence.

It blew my mind when I first saw the image.

It blew my mind too. I realized that a false narrative of sorts had been created over the past twenty years due to the fact we were never able to properly visualize them. Didn't matter if it was from a RDI/IDI perspective. It allowed them to be put into a more proper context but unfortunately a new false narrative has replaced it and even worse, the longjohns have hijacked all case discussion.

Conversely, JR came from a disciplined military background. His clothing was not found strewn about like the others were. His clothing was probably hung quite neatly in the closet and socks neatly rolled and placed side by side. It must have been difficult to work and arrive home to whatever he found at the end of his day. I envision life with PR was filled with chaos and confusion. Rushing here and there every day.

Imagine how John felt having to go out almost every night to eat because she doesn't want/like to cook. That had to be really frustrating. He works all day and as soon as he gets home, they gotta get the family ready to head over to Pasta Jay's.

I bet the kids weren't fond of this either. Yeah kids can make little adventures out of such trips but it would start wearing thin after awhile. It reminds me of the story where Jonbenet is cold and Patsy wont let her put a coat on because she has to be in beauty queen mode. Let your daughter be warm for crying out loud!

Was BR a difficult delivery for PR? Were there any complications involved at birth? Something, or maybe just his mother dying of cancer, his grandmother, Neddie, moving in and his sister's birth, traumatized him into developing a particular or peculiar personality. I'd never heard of scatagorical behavior until this case and no where else since but in this case.

I have a young cousin(he's 17 now) who had some issues in this department. Encopresis and my aunt would rarely send him to school because of this and he didn't even want to go anyways. It went beyond a medical condition though. When he would soil himself(at 12-13) and he'd be somewhere like in a store, he wouldn't even acknowledge it and act like nothing had happened even though the stench is in the air.

I wondered what was going on in his life underneath the surface of what little I knew. Due to all my research on this case, I assumed the worst of course. There was no adult male in his life that was a potential abuser and I never found out any root causes.

I still feel sorry for him. He never went to actual high school. he did home studies.

How dare she allow FW to change her baby girl's underwear or to call out to anyone to wipe her

Nothing against Fleet but I consider this a red flag too. Technically he has to do it as he's responsible for her when babysitting but the way she'd call out for anyone to do it shows that she has boundary issues.

I would certainly be most unhappy if my granddaughters arrived for a visit with staining in every pair of underwear. A child deserves clean underninnies, or new ones, if all others are stained. PR failed again by neglecting to replace the stained undies that had to embarrass or shame JB. It simply was not important to Patsy.

What's even worse is if Patsy ever teased and mocked her for having these stains. I can imagine Patsy forcing her to wash them herself in the sink which would be a humiliating experience.

 

[DeDee]

If someone isn't simply quoting him and agreeing with him, you're perceived as someone in need of being belittled, mocked, or simply ignored. Every single post of his now contains the exact same thing about the long johns no matter what was being said.

He just ridiculed DeDee's post for the cardinal sin of listing evidence in the case linked to Patsy....and she's BDI!

Its getting ridiculous.


Great points.

Especially this....

Don't have to explain yourself for having opinions on the case.

I can assure you that many of us like to read different view points on these subjects.

Thanks for posting the pics again which rarely happens in the middle of the never ending, continuous longjohns discussions. I've viewed the pics before obviously but seeing them again really highlights their small size.

Hand me downs indeed. he probably hadn't actually worn those in two or three years....maybe longer.

You're not the only one....

Newcomers to the case probably think its the only evidence.

It blew my mind too. I realized that a false narrative of sorts had been created over the past twenty years due to the fact we were never able to properly visualize them. Didn't matter if it was from a RDI/IDI perspective. It allowed them to be put into a more proper context but unfortunately a new false narrative has replaced it and even worse, the longjohns have hijacked all case discussion.

Imagine how John felt having to go out almost every night to eat because she doesn't want/like to cook. That had to be really frustrating. He works all day and as soon as he gets home, they gotta get the family ready to head over to Pasta Jay's.

I bet the kids weren't fond of this either. Yeah kids can make little adventures out of such trips but it would start wearing thin after awhile. It reminds me of the story where Jonbenet is cold and Patsy wont let her put a coat on because she has to be in beauty queen mode. Let your daughter be warm for crying out loud!

I have a young cousin(he's 17 now) who had some issues in this department. Encopresis and my aunt would rarely send him to school because of this and he didn't even want to go anyways. It went beyond a medical condition though. When he would soil himself(at 12-13) and he'd be somewhere like in a store, he wouldn't even acknowledge it and act like nothing had happened even though the stench is in the air.

I wondered what was going on in his life underneath the surface of what little I knew. Due to all my research on this case, I assumed the worst of course. There was no adult male in his life that was a potential abuser and I never found out any root causes.

I still feel sorry for him. He never went to actual high school. he did home studies.


Nothing against Fleet but I consider this a red flag too. Technically he has to do it as he's responsible for her when babysitting but the way she'd call out for anyone to do it shows that she has boundary issues.


What's even worse is if Patsy ever teased and mocked her for having these stains. I can imagine Patsy forcing her to wash them herself in the sink which would be a humiliating experience.

He just ridiculed DeDee's post for the cardinal sin of listing evidence in the case linked to Patsy....and she's BDI!

What? The evidence is what it is except when it isn't. By example, for all of these years, I'd always thought JB was wearing leggings at TOD. No big deal. The Bloomies were always the big deal. Now, we have been shocked to view the boy's pair of intact longjohns that JB was actually wearing. Town Marshall Kolar informed us years ago that some of what we believed to be evidence is not accurate. I would count this as a mistaken belief, on my part, of the child wearing leggings and not the actual longjohns we see now.

Newcomers to the case probably think its the only evidence.

Au contraire. The case is filled with too much evidence from the second floor to the WC in the basement.

I can assure you that many of us like to read different view points on these subjects.

Thanks for posting the pics again which rarely happens in the middle of the never ending, continuous longjohns discussions. I've viewed the pics before obviously but seeing them again really highlights their small size.

Yes, indeed. I had seen the image of JBs tiny waist but this image posted by QFT really accentuates her leanness. Why PR would hang on to yucky longjohns for threes years until JB could grow into them is beyond me. I don't understand saving any of BRs clothes for JB as being the proper thing to do.

Imagine how John felt having to go out almost every night to eat because she doesn't want/like to cook. That had to be really frustrating. He works all day and as soon as he gets home, they gotta get the family ready to head over to Pasta Jay's.

I've dined at Pasta Jay's and it's worth every dollar! Wasn't JR a silent partner with Jay in the restaurant? Here is a challenge for you. Show me where PR contributed to the positive health and welfare of her family. She did not work. She did not clean. She did not cook. She spent massive amounts of JRs income decorating their home. She wore expensive clothing and jewelry. Remember Priscilla suggesting for PR not to wear her diamonds and fur on LKL show?

I have a young cousin(he's 17 now) who had some issues in this department.

I am sorry to learn of your relative's problem. It is treatable. There is not one note in JBs medical records to indicate encopresis. No constipation. No laxatives. Her condition of stained underwear could be due to not wiping properly. JB wore pull-ups at night during the summer of '96 for bedwetting issues.

It is Burke's medical records that were sealed from the public. He could have suffered from encopresis but I think his was more on the level of smearing aka scatagorical behavior. Encopresis patients do not smell their own excrement. They have lost the urge to go due to damaged nerve fibers from the pressure in that area. They go. They can't smell it. It is treatable.

If there was a fight between BR and JB that evening, I'd say it was because of BR messing on JonBenet's Christmas chocolates. Although, certainly possible, but I do not think there was a fight over pineapple that led to her death. That is because I do not feel that her death was an accident any way you shape it.

Nothing against Fleet but I consider this a red flag too.

 

[Tiffanygrove]

It has been brought up, but not recently.
Patsy insisted in two interviews that, while JBR continued to have bed wetting issues, she was trying not to use Pull-ups, instead utilizing a plastic sheet on the bed:

PR: If I just didn&#8217;t take her to the potty and make her go to the potty before bedtime, she very likely would wet the bed.
TT: Ok. You have any idea about, has this been going on for how long? Any time that she broken and didn&#8217;t have any bed wetting problems and then started back up or anything like that.
PR: No, no, she just, I mean I&#8217;ve had her in pull-ups until very recently. I kind of thought it might be better, I mean pull-ups and those pamper things are so absorbent, that you can&#8217;t you know, the child can&#8217;t feel if they&#8217;re wet or not. So I thought well it might just be better if she felt wet than being&#8230;
Patsy Ramsey, 1997 interview

TOM HANEY: In the video that the police took walking through, which was taken some time later, there are -- there are packages of Pull-ups.
PATSY RAMSEY: They would be in there, yeah.
TOM HANEY: All right. They are partially hanging out in the video?
PATSY RAMSEY: Yup.
TOM HANEY: Would those be the Pull-ups that you would normally put on JonBenet?
PATSY RAMSEY: Right.
TOM HANEY: Do you recall the last time you put those on her?
PATSY RAMSEY: It hadn't been for quite some time, but I remember buying them to take a few with us on the cruise, thinking that maybe a combination it would be like on the cruise, and I didn't want her to spoil the mattress. So I bought a new package, and probably had taken some out and put them in the suitcase I was packing. But she hadn't really worn them, you know, very much recently.
TOM HANEY: Do you recall prior when the last time you put Pull-ups on her?
PATSY RAMSEY: No.
Patsy Ramsey, 1998 interview

Also:

In the summer of 96, JonBenét started wearing those diaper-type underpants&#8212;Pull-Ups. She even wore them to bed. There was always a wet one in the trash. By the end of the summer, Patsy was trying to get her to do without them. Then JonBenét started wetting the bed again. Almost every day I was there, there was a wet bed. Patsy said she wasn&#8217;t going to use Pull-Ups again. She just put a plastic cover on the bed. No big deal to her. By the time I&#8217;d come in the morning, Patsy would have all the sheets off the bed and in the laundry. JonBenét&#8217;s white blanket would already be in the dryer. The Ramseys had two washer-dryers&#8212;one in the basement and a stackable unit in a closet just outside JonBenét&#8217;s room.
Perfect Murder Perfect Town, page 198


Q. (By Mr. Morrissey) Mrs. Ramsey, prior to going to the Whites, did you see JonBenet in panties? In other words, were you at any point, prior to going to the Whites, in the process of her getting dressed, did you ever see if she was wearing panties?
A. I mean, I just probably didn't notice. I would, she must have had them on
or I would have certainly noticed if she didn't have any on.
Q. When you came home and you got her ready for bed, did you notice if she was
wearing panties? When you changed her out of the black velvet --
A. Uh-huh (affirmative).
Q. - type pants --
A. Right.
Q. -- and into the long underwear pants --
A. Uh-huh, right.
Q. -- the White ones, did you notice if she had a pair of panties on?
A. Yes, she did. I believe she did.
Q. Why do you remember that? I mean, what do you remember? I just want to know what you remember about that.
A. Well, I took the jeans off and put the long leggies on.
Q. And you noticed that she had panties on in that process?
A. Uh-huh (affirmative).
Q. You have to answer yes or no.
A. Well, I noticed -- I mean, nothing was unusual. I mean, if she hadn't had panties on, it would have been unusual. So --
Q. So there was nothing unusual there?
A. Correct.
Q. When you actually removed those -- you have -- they are black velvet pants?
A. Yes.
Q. And did the panties come down with them when you removed those pants, if you remember?
A. I don't remember.
Q. If they had, would you remember, or is that too long ago?
A. It has been a long time.
Q. But did you change -- did you put a fresh pair of panties on her at that point when you were getting her ready for bed?
A. No.
Patsy Ramsey, 2000 interview

Bed wetting is often a sign of a child in distress, as sleep is their only true escape. They descend deeply into it and it is difficult to wake them. Also, the day’s stress exhausts their nervous system.

 

[dgfred]

He said she was stabbed with a knife. How do you know if those abrasions on her back were inflicted with such a motion? Matter of fact I believe they were inflicted after her death, because the autopsy says there is no bruising.

I don't think anyone in the forum, through the years it's been discussed, has been able to find a hammer that would cause that shape of skull depression.

Yes, if he never strangled her he wouldn't know.

BR's behaviour in the interviews is not consistent with him being the assailant. At all. She wan't hit in the same time frame that she ate pineapple. Coma halts digestion and whatever it's called which makes the food move along - the muscle contraction. She ate at least 30 minutes before, for it to be in her small intestine.

If you knew she was bashed on the head would you identify the tool used for the bashing... or say something that doesn't match?
Eating in the kitchen... playing/fighting in the basement afterward?