The ransom note

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Userid said:
The knot was intricate.

The cause of death is a contentious issue, even among experts. Some say the head blow came first, others say the strangulation, others say it was pretty much simultaneous (head blow was struck during strangulation).
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So to me that indicates that the whole crime took place in the basement, more specifically in or just outside of the wine cellar. So this person took the time, with her either conscious or unconscious (depending on when the blow to the head occurred), to make this garrote. The intricate knot makes me think the blow to the head occurred first to incapacitate her.

What is your theory on her having been possibly struck with a stun gun? And in brief, would you mind sharing your thoughts on this case?
 
Userid said:
Whoever made the point about there being no tears on the ransom note -- that is a great point. I've always wondered that myself; how would PR be able to not get any of her tears on the note? It's all but unanimous that she wrote the note; and that the note was written after the victim had died -- I personally still believe this, but nonetheless, it's something that's a mystery. I suppose it wouldn't be absolutely impossible for her to keep her tears off the paper, assuming she was holding some sort of tissue in her other hand. I can't help but think of that box of tissues that was found on the dining room table, near where the bowl of pineapple and empty glass were recovered.
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A bit of a late response to this but in times of extreme crisis and shock, people's emotions are almost non-existent and they are running on auto-pilot. It's kind of a fight or flight phenom. I agree the note was written after she was deceased. That said, whoever wrote it knows the damage has been done and is irreversible so at this point, they need to protect themselves. Also, a lot has been mentioned about Patsy having possible psychological disorders which is a theory I am not opposed to. Again, if this is the case, it would be another reason there were no tears/sweat on the paper, because the state of mind was not that of the mother of a murdered child.
 
Lavinia said:
So to me that indicates that the whole crime took place in the basement, more specifically in or just outside of the wine cellar. So this person took the time, with her either conscious or unconscious (depending on when the blow to the head occurred), to make this garrote. The intricate knot makes me think the blow to the head occurred first to incapacitate her.

What is your theory on her having been possibly struck with a stun gun? And in brief, would you mind sharing your thoughts on this case?
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Perhaps I should clarify when I say "intricate." Intricate in this case means, that someone would have to possess specific knowledge in order to tie the knot that was used in the garrotte (forgot the exact name of the knot) -- but I don't really think it would have taken a long time necessarily to tie.

But I understand why you would think the whole crime occurred in or near the wine cellar. I certainly don't blame you and it is a valid theory. I feel like, all of the staging took place downstairs, at the very least (other than the ransom note, which was being written by PR upstairs).

I don't believe that she was ever shocked with a stun gun. I feel like those marks were made with something other than a stun gun; something inside the house. Some people believe BR's toy-track track could have made that mark, but I don't believe that made it either. Honestly, I don't know what made those marks, but it had to be something inside the house; just like everything else that was utilized to commit this murder: from the duck tape, to the bindings, to the paintbrush/garrotte. All of these things were inside the home.

Honestly (and quickly), I used to have this main theory that JR was caught by PR engaging in physically assaulting his daughter that night; and PR freaked out. Perhaps there was a tussle between the two, and JBR got in the way (the head blow). Perhaps her conditioned worsened as they tried to tend to her in the aftermath (trying to give her pineapple), and they thought she was dead. That's when the staging took place. They couldn't call police (when the head blow occurred) because they both were equally culpable: JR with the physical assault and PR with "murder." So they resorted to staging the murder with the garrotte and ransom note.

That was my main theory for a while and is still probably my best guess. In short, I believe that PR did it, in some way, shape, or form; and I am vehemently opposed to the theory that BR did it. I believe that, if the above theory isn't true, that Steve Thomas' theory of PR losing it over JBR's bed wetting is very plausible -- a punishment-gone-wrong scenario, where PR simply lost control that night.
 
David Rogers said:
The strangulation was to hide the head blow. They had a dead girl on there hands with no real cause. They new there would be an autopsy. They had to strangle her to create a reason for the death. Little did they know she was still alive when they strangled her. Blow on the head by Patsy, strangled by John. Both forever linked in the death.
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David Rogers,
Not to hide the head blow but to offer a visible cause of death? I've posted this before as part of a multiple staged homicide.

I suspect the original cause of death was manual strangulation, possibly caused by physical restraint on the assailants part.

So the head blow was by one of the parents attempting a first take on crime-scene staging, which failed and then morphed into the ligature/paintbrush scenario.

Also I suspect Burke put JonBenet back to bed redressed in size-12's and his own longjohns to hold them up, with no visible injuries, JonBenet likely looked as if she was asleep? Do not forget the bloodstain on her pillow, or on her Barbie Night Gown, coincidence?

A manual strangulation is consistent with the Autopsy Report's Conclusion since one consequence can be oxygen depletion leading to coma.

.
 
Lavinia said:
Those who follow this case have strong opinions to back their theories. Does anyone give any thought to Michael Helgoth?

JonBenét Ramsey--Solved at Last • UnderworldTales.com
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Her theory doesn't make much sense to me, really. If MH and an accomplice were planning on extorting JR, they would have written the ransom note before breaking in -- that alone is a massive hole in the psychic's theory. The extortion was the cornerstone of the crime in this scenario; the note would have been absolutely key in obtaining their main objective (money).

They also would have bought something to transport the body in. They wouldn't have relied on finding on an enormous suitcase.

I feel like MH could have very well been murdered by someone, but that it isn't connected to the crime of JBR. There's little doubt a guy like that was involved with shady people/dealings, so in turn, there are a myriad of possibilities for a person like him to have been murdered.

I feel like the "G" she's referring to is GO. I question when she had these "visions." Was it after these two names were floated in the press as possible suspects? I'd bet yes.
 
Userid said:
Her theory doesn't make much sense to me, really. If MH and an accomplice were planning on extorting JR, they would have written the ransom note before breaking in -- that alone is a massive hole in the psychic's theory. The extortion was the cornerstone of the crime in this scenario; the note would have been absolutely key in obtaining their main objective (money).

They also would have bought something to transport the body in. They wouldn't have relied on finding on an enormous suitcase.

I feel like MH could have very well been murdered by someone, but that it isn't connected to the crime of JBR. There's little doubt a guy like that was involved with shady people/dealings, so in turn, there are a myriad of possibilities for a person like him to have been murdered.

I feel like the "G" she's referring to is GO. I question when she had these "visions." Was it after these two names were floated in the press as possible suspects? I'd bet yes.
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Awesome theories on your part with legitimate explanations. The only thing that had me were the pair of Tec boots and the SBTC engraved gun which seems a bit too coincidental.
 
Lavinia said:
Awesome theories on your part with legitimate explanations. The only thing that had me were the pair of Tec boots and the SBTC engraved gun which seems a bit too coincidental.
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Yes, I must admit those are quite ironic (for lack of a better word), especially the SBTC engraved gun.

I'm not a proponent of the BR did it theory, but I feel like that mark in the cellar came from his boots (he also owned a pair of "HiTec" boots) -- not the night that JBR was murdered, but sometime before.
 
fr brown said:
It's supposed to be a hat with "SBTC" on it, no doubt bogus.
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And I say this because 1. we know where "SBTC" came from and it would be too much of a coincidence for Helgoth to have a hat with those letters on it unless he had it made after the crime and 2. Paula Woodward writes about Helgoth and lists three things found with him: Hi-Tec boots, a stun gun and a 9mm. She would have mentioned it if a hat with those letters had been found because the whole book is written to exculpate the Ramseys. The only mention of "SBTC" she makes is "Southern Bell Telephone Company," "Santa Barbara Tennis Club," and "Saved by the Cross" as possibilities.
 
fr brown said:
And I say this because 1. we know where "SBTC" came from and it would be too much of a coincidence for Helgoth to have a hat with those letters on it unless he had it made after the crime and 2. Paula Woodward writes about Helgoth and lists three things found with him: Hi-Tec boots, a stun gun and a 9mm. She would have mentioned it if a hat with those letters had been found because the whole book is written to exculpate the Ramseys. The only mention of "SBTC" she makes is "Southern Bell Telephone Company," "Santa Barbara Tennis Club," and "Saved by the Cross" as possibilities.
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Helpful with that info. and I agree, if all of those things were in fact found in his home, the BPD would just need to see if the Hi-Tec boot sizes matched, confirm the marks on her neck were in fact from a stun-gun (and that exact size/wattage) it would basically be a solved case.
What are your thoughts on the acronym "SBTC"?
 
Lavinia said:
Helpful with that info. and I agree, if all of those things were in fact found in his home, the BPD would just need to see if the Hi-Tec boot sizes matched, confirm the marks on her neck were in fact from a stun-gun (and that exact size/wattage) it would basically be a solved case.
What are your thoughts on the acronym "SBTC"?
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BPD said that the boots were not a match. That implies that the logos were slightly different because apparently the shoeprint cannot be sized. I own a pair of the Columbus boots Burke supposedly had and I made logo imprints. They're on FFJ in an appropriately-named thread on the first page of the JonBenet forum. I haven't compared logos with the photo of Helgoth's alleged boots in Paula Woodward's book, but my off-the-cuff impression is that they are not that all-fired different.

For the "stun gun" back impressions, I would look at post #398 of the FFJ "John Ramsey's New Book--The Other Side of Suffering." I don't know if the impressions look exactly like that (and I have no idea what made them), but I think there is too much internal detail to be stun gun burns. (And the marks are oriented all wrong anyway; if they were from a stun gun, they would be pointing toward each other because that's how the electrodes are oriented, but the back marks are almost parallel.) My avatar on FFJ is the cheek mark.

Check out post #403 of the same thread for the origin of "SBTC." A picture is worth a thousand words. I will add that when I read about Patsy's magical psalm, Psalm 57, in Death of Innocence, I had no reason to think there was a connection between Psalm 57 and Psalm 35, but when I read Psalm 57 in the NIV Study Bible (which I own), I saw that they shared some DNA. Both psalms talk about enemies as lions who dig pits and spread nets over them, but end up falling into the pits themselves. That struck me as a comical image. All it lacks is a roadrunner and an anvil. Then I checked the cross-references and, sure enough, there's a cross-reference from Psalm 57 to Psalm 35 and one to the last line of Psalm 34, Ps 34:22, which is the line before "SBTC" in Psalm 35. (You can see the cross-references from Psalm 57 in post #410 of that thread.)

Don Foster is the person who discovered "SBTC" in the Ramsey Bible. On Dec. 26, it was open to Psalms 35/36. So Foster must have flipped back one page and seen that striking pattern. (Patsy's sister had removed the Bible else Steve Thomas would no doubt have discovered it.)

An interesting screen shot of the Bible was posted by questfortrue in #404. (The Bible, however, was found on John's desk adjacent to their bedroom, not on the first floor.) To me it looks like the book was posed. Maybe "SBTC" was meant to be found, but I think Patsy intended it to be connected to John. She denied ever reading that Bible, denied that it would have been left open to be exploited by an intruder, and emphasized that John did read it. She didn't have to say any of that.
 
fr brown said:
BPD said that the boots were not a match. That implies that the logos were slightly different because apparently the shoeprint cannot be sized. I own a pair of the Columbus boots Burke supposedly had and I made logo imprints. They're on FFJ in an appropriately-named thread on the first page of the JonBenet forum. I haven't compared logos with the photo of Helgoth's alleged boots in Paula Woodward's book, but my off-the-cuff impression is that they are not that all-fired different.

For the "stun gun" back impressions, I would look at post #398 of the FFJ "John Ramsey's New Book--The Other Side of Suffering." I don't know if the impressions look exactly like that (and I have no idea what made them), but I think there is too much internal detail to be stun gun burns. (And the marks are oriented all wrong anyway; if they were from a stun gun, they would be pointing toward each other because that's how the electrodes are oriented, but the back marks are almost parallel.) My avatar on FFJ is the cheek mark.

Check out post #403 of the same thread for the origin of "SBTC." A picture is worth a thousand words. I will add that when I read about Patsy's magical psalm, Psalm 57, in Death of Innocence, I had no reason to think there was a connection between Psalm 57 and Psalm 35, but when I read Psalm 57 in the NIV Study Bible (which I own), I saw that they shared some DNA. Both psalms talk about enemies as lions who dig pits and spread nets over them, but end up falling into the pits themselves. That struck me as a comical image. All it lacks is a roadrunner and an anvil. Then I checked the cross-references and, sure enough, there's a cross-reference from Psalm 57 to Psalm 35 and one to the last line of Psalm 34, Ps 34:22, which is the line before "SBTC" in Psalm 35. (You can see the cross-references from Psalm 57 in post #410 of that thread.)

Don Foster is the person who discovered "SBTC" in the Ramsey Bible. On Dec. 26, it was open to Psalms 35/36. So Foster must have flipped back one page and seen that striking pattern. (Patsy's sister had removed the Bible else Steve Thomas would no doubt have discovered it.)

An interesting screen shot of the Bible was posted by questfortrue in #404. (The Bible, however, was found on John's desk adjacent to their bedroom, not on the first floor.) To me it looks like the book was posed. Maybe "SBTC" was meant to be found, but I think Patsy intended it to be connected to John. She denied ever reading that Bible, denied that it would have been left open to be exploited by an intruder, and emphasized that John did read it. She didn't have to say any of that.
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You are officially my go-to on this case. Mad props and serious sleuthing work.
 
The first letters of Psalm 35 are CTBS (technically). Why would she reverse the letters?
 
Another acronym for "SBTC", which is creepy in this case, is "so be the child"
Userid said:
The first letters of Psalm 35 are CTBS (technically). Why would she reverse the letters?
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That may be reaching a bit as far as actually meaning something in terms of the crime/note. Not too convinced on that one but it is interesting.
 
Lavinia said:
Another acronym for "SBTC", which is creepy in this case, is "so be the child"

That may be reaching a bit as far as actually meaning something in terms of the crime/note. Not too convinced on that one but it is interesting.
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Agree, and it seems like, if you wanted to use an acronym (based off of an acrostic poem), a better stanza would have been 35:7 to 35:10 -- especially if one is of the belief that PR was trying to point the finger at JR. And there'd be no reason to reverse the letters, in either case.

I always thought that PR wasn't particularly smart enough to do such a thing; and JR wasn't smart enough to "decode" any message she would have been sending him, particularly if she was using some random bible passage and reversing an already hard acronym to decode. I feel like sometimes, we (the royal "we") give too much credit to both of them.

I always felt like it was somehow based alphabetically, numerically, and/or schematically. S and T are next to each other in the alphabet, as are B and C. S is the 19th letter, B is the 2nd, T is the 20th, C is the 3rd. 19/2/20/3. Could these be dates (2/19, 3/20)? I haven't dwelled on this intently, but it was an idea I've always had.

Also: 2/19 to 3/20 is the zodiac sign for Pisces.
 
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Userid said:
Agree, and it seems like, if you wanted to use an acronym (based off of an acrostic poem), a better stanza would have been 35:7 to 35:10 -- especially if one is of the belief that PR was trying to point the finger at JR. And there'd be no reason to reverse the letters, in either case.

I always thought that PR wasn't particularly smart enough to do such a thing; and JR wasn't smart enough to "decode" any message she would have been sending him, particularly if she was using some random bible passage and reversing an already hard acronym to decode. I feel like sometimes, we (the royal "we") give too much credit to both of them.

I always felt like it was somehow based alphabetically, numerically, and/or schematically. S and T are next to each other in the alphabet, as are B and C. S is the 19th letter, B is the 2nd, T is the 20th, C is the 3rd. 19/2/20/3. Could these be dates (2/19, 3/20)? I haven't dwelled on this intently, but it was an idea I've always had.
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You really could go down a rabbit hole by attempting to "decode" SBTC - interesting point about the consecutive letters and bringing dates in there. Good point on how we view JR and PR - because this case was botched from the beginning, making it so difficult (nearly impossible) to solve, it's hard to remember that this note, the knot on the garrote, everything was done in a scrambled manner and probably in no way consciously linked to the other actions.
 
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