The Rape Allegations/Investigation

[oceanblueeyes]

I expect the Marines to change the way women are treated in the military. I expect that anyone who supports the USMC will have the humanity and decency to look hard at this case and the many other instances where women have been brutally assaulted by their fellow service members and demand that the climate which encourages this type of brutality be changed.

But, in all honesty, I fully expect that the people who blindly support some fairy-tale notion of the military will continue to wear the blinders and allow the abuse to continue unabated.

What, exactly, do people expect the Marines to do, you ask? Tell the truth. Stand up for Maria. Stand up for justice. Grow a frickken backbone. Stop lying to defend men who assault women.

What do YOU expect of the USMC, steadfast?

There is nothing whatsoever that shows that the USMC covered up or conspired with anyone against Maria Lauterbach. Not once did she complain to her family that the USMC wasn't treating her fairly. I would much rather stand up for truth BARD and justice and there is nothing showing that the allegations made had any validity to them. Each case must remain intact on its own merits not simply because it is a woman who has alleged a convoluted allegation.

It is not the USMCs fault that they were handed a very iffy rape allegation where even Maria herself made inconsistent and illogical statements. Like our own civilian justice system they must have substantiating evidence to go forward and they were still actively investigating the case. Even knowing that in their files it showed that Maria had made up an outlandish story in the past that even require counseling. Through all that they kept going forward and no telling what other information they had acquired that is in her personnel folder.

They even went beyond what was required of them and moved Maria so she could have daily contact with her VA in case she needed her. If this was to happen in the general society no VA would be at work with us everyday....we can better believe that. In the civilian world in some states a woman has to even pay for their own rape kit when they are alleging rape.

So no........they did not fail to protect her. They have jurisdiction on their own government installations only and not one thing ever happened on that base once the MPO was in place between Cesar and Maria.

Abuse happens in all walks of life to BOTH genders and by BOTH genders. Imo the attitude that it is just applies to women only puts this country back 50 years imo.

It is no more prevalent in the military than in society at large just like it is much less likely that someone in the military will murder someone than the those in the public at large. I read a statistic that there have been 127 murders committed by military personnel that had come back from Afghanistan and Iraq, I think it was over a 5 year period. Now we have around 10,000+ murders per YEAR in our overall population...so it shows the military are rarely the vast killers in our society . And with the military being the largest employer in the world there are bound to be some bad apples like we have in our private sector.

But it is your right to bash them if you want to ......they die everyday so that right is protected for you.

No one failed Maria but the one who took Maria and Gabriel's lives.

Semper Fidelis!!

 

[Tom'sGirl]

There is nothing whatsoever that shows that the USMC covered up or conspired with anyone against Maria Lauterbach. Not once did she complain to her family that the USMC wasn't treating her fairly. I would much rather stand up for truth BARD and justice and there is nothing showing that the allegations made had any validity to them. Each case must remain intact on its own merits not simply because it is a woman who has alleged a convoluted allegation.

It is not the USMCs fault that they were handed a very iffy rape allegation where even Maria herself made inconsistent and illogical statements. Like our own civilian justice system they must have substantiating evidence to go forward and they were still actively investigating the case. Even knowing that in their files it showed that Maria had made up an outlandish story in the past that even require counseling. Through all that they kept going forward and no telling what other information they had acquired that is in her personnel folder.

They even went beyond what was required of them and moved Maria so she could have daily contact with her VA in case she needed her. If this was to happen in the general society no VA would be at work with us everyday....we can better believe that. In the civilian world in some states a woman has to even pay for their own rape kit when they are alleging rape.

So no........they did not fail to protect her. They have jurisdiction on their own government installations only and not one thing ever happened on that base once the MPO was in place between Cesar and Maria.

Abuse happens in all walks of life to BOTH genders and by BOTH genders. Imo the attitude that it is just applies to women only puts this country back 50 years imo.

It is no more prevalent in the military than in society at large just like it is much less likely that someone in the military will murder someone than the those in the public at large. I read a statistic that there have been 127 murders committed by military personnel that had come back from Afghanistan and Iraq, I think it was over a 5 year period. Now we have around 10,000+ murders per YEAR in our overall population...so it shows the military are rarely the vast killers in our society . And with the military being the largest employer in the world there are bound to be some bad apples like we have in our private sector.

But it is your right to bash them if you want to ......they die everyday so that right is protected for you.

No one failed Maria but the one who took Maria and Gabriel's lives.

Semper Fidelis!!

Great post, and IMO, right on!

 

[STEADFAST]

I think they could and should send Marine MPs into Mexico to assist in his capture. There is no excuse for him to be still roaming around freely there. I don't call it "invading" Mexico, but they certainly could send people to find him. I don't think they are doing anything at this point.

You may not call it "invading Mexico," but the Mexican government would. Mexico is a sovereign nation, and U.S. military personnel cannot legally go inside their borders and circumvent the process of extradition. How would you like it if foreign military forces came into the United States to locate and capture someone who had broken their laws?

As a matter of fact, the Marines could not arrest Laurean in the United States for Maria's murder, either, because he is charged under North Carolina's laws and not the Uniform Code of Military Justice. The 1878 Posse Comitatus Act prohibits the use of the military to execute the civil laws of the United States.

 

[MCDRAW]

I don't think that the marines can do anything about Laureen NOW. But I wonder why he wasn't a suspect in the beginning. And if he was a suspect, why the marines didn't have him where they could watch him. They knew he had dual citizenship and he had said he would flee if convicted of rape. I don't know if they could have stopped what happened to Maria but in my opinion they could have stopped him from fleeing.

 

[STEADFAST]

I don't think that the marines can do anything about Laureen NOW. But I wonder why he wasn't a suspect in the beginning. And if he was a suspect, why the marines didn't have him where they could watch him. They knew he had dual citizenship and he had said he would flee if convicted of rape. I don't know if they could have stopped what happened to Maria but in my opinion they could have stopped him from fleeing.

I agree. I can understand why they didn't confine him when Maria first went missing, since they believed they had the note from her saying she was leaving. But they should have detained him after that first meeting on base with the sheriff, especially knowing that he had lawyered up.

 

[Jolynna]

I don't think that the marines can do anything about Laureen NOW. But I wonder why he wasn't a suspect in the beginning. And if he was a suspect, why the marines didn't have him where they could watch him. They knew he had dual citizenship and he had said he would flee if convicted of rape. I don't know if they could have stopped what happened to Maria but in my opinion they could have stopped him from fleeing.

Did the people "with the power to detain" know CL said he would leave if convicted of the rape? Or had he told his marine friends, who, most likely, kept the information to themselves until "after" everything came out and CL was headed for Mexico?

 

[Jolynna]

I agree. I can understand why they didn't confine him when Maria first went missing, since they believed they had the note from her saying she was leaving. But they should have detained him after that first meeting on base with the sheriff, especially knowing that he had lawyered up.

Can you detain someone for getting a lawyer?

LE was reporting almost until the end that this was going to be a case with a good ending and thinking Amy would be found. It did happen (despite how things looked) with Amy Scott and Dan Querzoli, despite cell phones and ID and credit cards being left behind, both of them having cars and no need to borrow another car and Dan and Amy both being in school and exams coming up (that both missed).

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I agree. I can understand why they didn't confine him when Maria first went missing, since they believed they had the note from her saying she was leaving. But they should have detained him after that first meeting on base with the sheriff, especially knowing that he had lawyered up.

And by law they have to have probable cause for an arrest and they can't detain someone because they have obtained a lawyer. At that time they had nothing tying him to the disappearance of Maria Lauterbach. They can't detain him simply because he exercised his given right that we all have in this country. If that were true they would arrest all of the people that lawyer up in other cases like Jason Young or Jennifer Wilbanks' fiancé, John but they didn't because they know they have to have probable cause that is going to pass judicial muster when they do and obtaining a lawyer is not against the law nor a reason for an arrest or detainment.

Everything they had pointed to her leaving on her own free will. The note to DD. Taking her personal items with her. The pulling of money out of her account..... buying the bus ticket purchased by Maria. Maria's mother's statements that when Maria felt backed into a corner she would tell lies. All of it pointed to the very good possibility that she was alive and even the media and most message boards at first thought she had left due to the stress she was under.

They cant arrest someone simply because they exercised their rights to obtain and talk with attorneys. Everyone is afforded such right.

Do I wish it had ended differently? Do I wish that Christina Laurean would have called the very day she knew all about this? Absolutely, of course I do but an investigator goes with the evidence they have at the time and they don't arrest people on gut feelings or speculations. Until the letter was turned over they had nothing showing that she had even met with foul play and were fully thinking she was pitching it all and leaving everything behind which I DO think she was. Why she ever decided to come to Laurean's home that day before she departed we may never learn the full story.

It is very easy to become emotional in such a sad crime as this one and want to blame someone but LE doesn't arrest on emotion or suppositions. Had they had evidence that he was connected to her disappearance he would have been arrested then. Until the 11th, they had no such evidence or knowledge. Laurean had been on that base everyday and never missed work since this began in May 07....they had no way of knowing that after all these months he would deviate from that pattern.

The one that let Laurean get away was his wife whom I feel knew all of this much sooner than the day she said she did.

imoo

 

[STEADFAST]

Can you detain someone for getting a lawyer?

LE was reporting almost until the end that this was going to be a case with a good ending and thinking Amy would be found. It did happen (despite how things looked) with Amy Scott and Dan Querzoli, despite cell phones and ID and credit cards being left behind, both of them having cars and no need to borrow another car and Dan and Amy both being in school and exams coming up (that both missed).

In the civilian world, you can't detain someone just because they got a lawyer. But a Marine or Navy commander can have anyone under him detained or restricted, just because he thinks it's a wise idea. A couple of days before Laurean took off, I think his C.O. should have been suspicious enough to have him confined for the time being.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Can you detain someone for getting a lawyer?

LE was reporting almost until the end that this was going to be a case with a good ending and thinking Amy would be found. It did happen (despite how things looked) with Amy Scott and Dan Querzoli, despite cell phones and ID and credit cards being left behind, both of them having cars and no need to borrow another car and Dan and Amy both being in school and exams coming up (that both missed).

No you cant legally detain them in the military or the civilian population.

No matter where they are no one in any commanding position is going to detain someone and take away their liberty on a "just cuz" basis.

imoo

 

[STEADFAST]

No you cant legally detain them in the military or the civilian population.

No matter where they are no one in any commanding position is going to detain someone and take away their liberty on a "just cuz" basis.

imoo

from About.com:
Unlike the civilian justice system which requires a judge to grant a protective or restraining order, in the military any commissioned officer can impose a condition on liberty on any enlisted member. . .

Authorities cannot impose conditions on liberty on a whim. In order for the protective order to be valid, there must be "reasonable belief" that:

• An offense triable by court-martial has been committed;
• The person to be restrained committed it; and
• The restraint ordered is required by the circumstances.

and from the Uniform Code of Military Justice:
"An enlisted member may be ordered into arrest or confinement by any commissioned officer by an order, oral or written, delivered in person or through other persons subject to this chapter. A commanding officer may authorize warrant officers, petty officers, or noncommissioned officers to order enlisted members of his command or subject to his authority into arrest or confinement."

I think that Laurean's case fulfilled the three conditions:
Murder is definitely an offense triable by court-martial (so would be aiding and abetting Maria in an unauthorized absence, so would be raping her.)
There was reason to believe Laurean may have committed at least one of the offenses.
Laurean, being a dual citizen of Mexico could be reasonably considered a flight risk.

Besides all that, I have good reason to know that commanding officers routinely order enlisted personnel into confinement even for the most petty and minor offenses and/or slight suspicions.

 

[davenj]

Steadfast is right on.When I was still on active duty if you did something stupid either on base or in town you were at the least confined to the barracks until it was sorted out.It didn't matter if you were married and living off base or not,you were confined to the barracks.Part of that involved physically checking in with the barracks duty every hour and being escorted to and from the chow hall and church services.

I served in the Marines and I'm proud of that fact,but the bottom line is,the Marines dropped the ball big time here,and it cost Maria her life as well as Gabriel's.If the USMC and Onslow County were on the same page from the begining,it might have at the least prevented CL from disappearing.If the USMC had it's head on straight and confined him or transfered him/her to another base Maria and Gabriel would be here today.

The coldness of this whole thing sickens me.The fact that this animal could actually still report to work everyday and act like nothing was wrong is disturbing to say the least.I hope is hunted down and caught,hopefully in the US so they can jam a needle into his arm.Rant over.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

from About.com:
Unlike the civilian justice system which requires a judge to grant a protective or restraining order, in the military any commissioned officer can impose a condition on liberty on any enlisted member. . .

Authorities cannot impose conditions on liberty on a whim. In order for the protective order to be valid, there must be "reasonable belief" that:

• An offense triable by court-martial has been committed;
• The person to be restrained committed it; and
• The restraint ordered is required by the circumstances.

and from the Uniform Code of Military Justice:
"An enlisted member may be ordered into arrest or confinement by any commissioned officer by an order, oral or written, delivered in person or through other persons subject to this chapter. A commanding officer may authorize warrant officers, petty officers, or noncommissioned officers to order enlisted members of his command or subject to his authority into arrest or confinement."

I think that Laurean's case fulfilled the three conditions:
Murder is definitely an offense triable by court-martial (so would be aiding and abetting Maria in an unauthorized absence, so would be raping her.)
There was reason to believe Laurean may have committed at least one of the offenses.
Laurean, being a dual citizen of Mexico could be reasonably considered a flight risk.

Besides all that, I have good reason to know that commanding officers routinely order enlisted personnel into confinement even for the most petty and minor offenses and/or slight suspicions.

But maintaining such order is not done because one has obtained a lawyer which is every citizens right including those in the military.

They had no reason to detain him. All of their records showed that from the very beginning of the May 07 allegations he continued to report for duty as expected. He still preformed all of his duties to their expectations. During this time period he took 10 day leave only to return to his duty station in a timely manner. He did not violate the MPO order and ML told the MC she did not fear CL.

At the time that he asked and received permission to speak with his attorneys the MC, NCIS or OCSD had no evidence that Mary Lauterbach's disappearance was connected to Laurean. They fully felt with the evidence they had in hand that she had left the Corps on her own free will.

That is what they had.....and there was nothing there for a Commander to restrict his liberty and to keep him from going to his home that was off base. As the link says...they can't do it on a whim.

It was no where near the Court Martial stage........the Article 32 hearing hadn't even commenced yet.

The USMC had no knowledge that any murder had occurred until January 11 when handed the note by CSL.

imoo

 

[STEADFAST]

But maintaining such order is not done because one has obtained a lawyer which is every citizens right including those in the military.

They had no reason to detain him. All of their records showed that from the very beginning of the May 07 allegations he continued to report for duty as expected. He still preformed all of his duties to their expectations. During this time period he took 10 day leave only to return to his duty station in a timely manner. He did not violate the MPO order and ML told the MC she did not fear CL.

At the time that he asked and received permission to speak with his attorneys the MC, NCIS or OCSD had no evidence that Mary Lauterbach's disappearance was connected to Laurean. They fully felt with the evidence they had in hand that she had left the Corps on her own free will.

That is what they had.....and there was nothing there for a Commander to restrict his liberty and to keep him from going to his home that was off base. As the link says...they can't do it on a whim.

It was no where near the Court Martial stage........the Article 32 hearing hadn't even commenced yet.

The USMC had no knowledge that any murder had occurred until January 11 when handed the note by CSL.

imoo

I must admit, you have a point. Maybe it's just wishful thinking on my part to think that someone in his command could have become suspicious of him in those last couple of days before he took off. It's terrible to think that someone that evil could fool absolutely everyone around him.

 

[btbsmith]

The Sherrif and his group is who really dropped the ball in the end - Cesar missed an appointment with tem the day before he fled - they could have easily stopped him from fleeing - either by coming to get him for an interview or staking out his place. Just plain stupid, especially in that LE notes on the warrants indicate they considered foul play very likely from the start of the missing persons case. They could have pushed harder to contact all pertinent MC orgs (chain of command, MPs, NCIS) from the start. They only made weak attempts. Any LE around a military base would know these orgs should at least be contacted. Any plain citizen could figure this out very quick if they really wanted to contact folks on base about an individual from the base. MC messed up early by dragging it out, but LE let Cesar go.

 

[Truly]

The Sherrif and his group is who really dropped the ball in the end - Cesar missed an appointment with tem the day before he fled - they could have easily stopped him from fleeing - either by coming to get him for an interview or staking out his place. Just plain stupid, especially in that LE notes on the warrants indicate they considered foul play very likely from the start of the missing persons case. They could have pushed harder to contact all pertinent MC orgs (chain of command, MPs, NCIS) from the start. They only made weak attempts. Any LE around a military base would know these orgs should at least be contacted. Any plain citizen could figure this out very quick if they really wanted to contact folks on base about an individual from the base. MC messed up early by dragging it out, but LE let Cesar go.

It is completely illogical to suggest that any civilian Sheriff should know all the ins-and-outs of the heirarchy of the military, and which specific hoops are required to be jumped through before the Marines on that base will cooperate with an investigation. The Marine Corps commanders withheld from the Sheriff's office any information regarding the rape charges against Laurean.

I don't blame the Sheriff; he had the horrible task of recovering the bodies of Maria and Gabriel. He did not go to the big parties on their graves on Christmas Eve and New Years Eve which Laurean threw for his 'buddies'.

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=4130098
"Brown said commanders at Camp LeJeune were not aware of the rape accusation until he told them about it on January 9."
"He also explained to the military commanders that Laurean's lawyers were preventing police from questioning him."
"The probe into Lauterbach's accusations had been handled in a low, or 'downhill' level, Brown said.

Sheriff Brown was deeply moved about finding Maria and Gabriel so brutally murdered, burned, and buried. I have not seen a similiar human response from anyone on that base. All I've seen is :liar: .

 

[philamena]

Looks like this case is gong cold.
Makes me sad, mad and furious that the US Marines, US govt and the Mexican govt can't find a Marine who killed a pregnant Marine and cooked her and her baby in a bbq pit,:furious: :furious: :furious: ON AMERICAN SOIL!

 

[Tom'sGirl]

Looks like this case is gong cold.
Makes me sad, mad and furious that the US Marines, US govt and the Mexican govt can't find a Marine who killed a pregnant Marine and cooked her and her baby in a bbq pit,:furious: :furious: :furious: ON AMERICAN SOIL!

Hang in there philamena, don't think it's going cold, some things just take time.

 

[STEADFAST]

Looks like this case is gong cold.
Makes me sad, mad and furious that the US Marines, US govt and the Mexican govt can't find a Marine who killed a pregnant Marine and cooked her and her baby in a bbq pit,:furious: :furious: :furious: ON AMERICAN SOIL!

It's maddening, isn't it? How could he be this hard to find? How big is the reward? Maybe it's not big enough.

 

[Tom'sGirl]

It's maddening, isn't it? How could he be this hard to find? How big is the reward? Maybe it's not big enough.

Reward is only $25,000