The Reality of it all now....

[Carnifax]

Given the amount of time that has passed, the chances of conclusively solving this case is very slim. With possible exception of digging the hole back up, finding any answers is going to be tough. Even if no bones/traces/clues are found, it doesnt necessarily mean the kids passed in fire.

Im curious what everyone thought if there is a way to prove one way or another what really happened that fateful night.

 

[killarney rose]

The only way would be to excavate that basement to search for bone fragments. I really believe the children were consumed in the fire.

 

[Carnifax]

From what I understand, the initial investigation was fairly thorough but I tend to agree with you.

 

[Carnifax]

That’s the difficult thing about this case, the more you dig, the more these details seem to contradict each other.
I’ve heard that George called off the search after the vertebrae were found. I’ve also heard the investigation called thorough. I can’t imagine a doctor from the Smithsonian going along with anything shady but then again, I wasn’t there.
There is a newspaper picture showing the investigation. It seems posed but it’s clear they are in a hole and holding an object. It’s hard to tell how deep the hole is but it’s clear what they are doing.
I think there are a LOT of details yet to uncover about this case which will make what we thought we knew irrelevant.

 

[killarney rose]

I believe George was quick to cover the basement and call off the search because if no remains were found, there was still hope that his children were alive somewhere.

 

[Carnifax]

I'm not sure exactly why George bulldozed the hole so soon after being told not to. It is theoretically possible that he was trying to hide something or could he have been trying to hide the absence of something (or someone). Then again he could have been so grief stricken that he needed to move on with life. I cant imagine the grief that must have accompanied that day for the Sodders.

Here's a huge sticking point for me. "Chief" Morris is said to have planted the box with the tissue in the hole during the time span that the hole was opened (4 days). How did he do this without being caught? It was said that family stayed there on site until a new structure was built (did they stay in the garage? temporary shelter?). Additionally, Morris claimed he used a wooden box he found at the Sodder's to bury the found tissue. How did he do it? Again, this detail (like many others surrounding this case), seems improbable.

Im guessing Morris did not do it the day of the fire. There were a LOT of people milling around the day of the fire additionally he is the acting fire chief. He would (should) have had a lot of responsibilities that day. How would he have had time to sneak away to get a wooden box from the Sodders, somehow get his hands on the beef tissue, secure the box, climb down into the hole then place it in the hole under debris without being seen.

Did he sneak there under cover of darkness to complete the mission? Did he wait until everyone left? If you look at the layout of the yard, I think it would have been somewhat difficult (or at least not easy) to just drive up, toss the box in and get away. Furthermore, if we assume George didnt tell anyone he was going to bulldoze the hole, how did Morris do it in the span of 4 days? Additionally, there were probably onlookers, rubber neckers, etc. around for the following days.

So if he didnt place the box while it was open, it would have been much more difficult once dirt was in place. And at that point, why bother? He could not have known George would eventually dig it up.

 

[branmuffin]

I believe George was quick to cover the basement and call off the search because if no remains were found, there was still hope that his children were alive somewhere.

To a certain extent I think it was a coping mechanism. I believe the Sodder children died in the fire that night. What would you rather believe, that your kids were spirited away to Florida or that your kids were incinerated in a fire?

 

[Carnifax]

Agreed the Florida angle is strange and I think there is lot more to that. I’ve heard conflicting stories about the FBI being involved.
FWIW, I requested any info the FBI has but they responded their records were discarded.
And another thing….let’s have a rational discussion about the fire’s origin. So Morris claims to have buried the box under a piece of roofing tin. If the roof is tin, the chances of starting on fire are probably very slim.
Additionally, one would have to have a pretty strong arm to throw an amateur built molatov cocktail up onto the roof of a 2 story house.
Oh yeah, none of the neighbors can hear or see anything or anyone during all of this.
why not set the bottom of the house on fire. It will catch a lot quicker.

 

[Carnifax]

Furthermore, I had read that George repaired engines in the basement and I think metal drums (barrels) were found in debris. I would doubt George had gasoline stored in the drums. A large volume of gas in a barrel would be very bad to keep in a basement by a coal burning stove. Plus the gas fumes alone would have been unbearable. Any gas vapors would be an explosion ready to go especially around a stove with an open flame. He might have had a small amount of gas for testing engines and such.

My point to this is it would have been more "efficient" to start a fire in the basement. There would have been combustible materials (starting fluid, greasy rags, etc.) to instantly start a very wicked fire. Why go through the time and hassle of trying to toss fire bombs on the roof when you could have just broken a basement window and tossed a fire bomb down there?
But like all the questions here, we will probably never know.

 

[FireInv13]

Given the amount of time that has passed, the chances of conclusively solving this case is very slim. With possible exception of digging the hole back up, finding any answers is going to be tough. Even if no bones/traces/clues are found, it doesnt necessarily mean the kids passed in fire.

Im curious what everyone thought if there is a way to prove one way or another what really happened that fateful night.

 

[FireInv13]

You have an uncontrolled burn of a timber structure that lasted for at least 8 hours. (Before FD showed up). If the structure collapses into the basement a sustained 8 hours at around 1000 F could have consumed most of the remains of the children. At one point after the fire someone suggesting using screens to search through the rubble for human remains and someone denied they were needed. Sifting screens are a valuable tool when looking for fire victim remains. Those children are right there where that have been since that fateful and tragic December night.

 

[Kudzu]

You have an uncontrolled burn of a timber structure that lasted for at least 8 hours. (Before FD showed up). If the structure collapses into the basement a sustained 8 hours at around 1000 F could have consumed most of the remains of the children. At one point after the fire someone suggesting using screens to search through the rubble for human remains and someone denied they were needed. Sifting screens are a valuable tool when looking for fire victim remains. Those children are right there where that have been since that fateful and tragic December night.

Can you tell me what case this references? I couldn’t tell by the discussion. Thanks.

 

[Carnifax]

Thanks for sharing the info. It was said the fire burned itself out within 45 minutes and smoldered until morning when Chief Morris finally arrives.
The fire burned unevenly as combustible debris (part of a book and other household matter) was later found in the basement (assuming in the rubble).
I’ve seen different temperatures thrown around but would imagine the wooden frame of the house burned quickly and the contents of the house is what sustained the fire and somewhat drove whatever temperature the fire burned at.
I’m not a fireman so maybe someone might have a better insight into this.

 

[branmuffin]

Can you tell me what case this references? I couldn’t tell by the discussion. Thanks.

It's in reference to the Sodder children. Their home went up in flames on Christmas Eve, 1945. Five children in all were never seen again. Over the years conspiracy theories abound. You can read all about it in this thread.

WV - WV - Sodder Family - 5 children, Christmas eve 1945 - #4

There's already 4 threads. Try to read all of them.

 

[Kudzu]

It's in reference to the Sodder children. Their home went up in flames on Christmas Eve, 1945. Five children in all were never seen again. Over the years conspiracy theories abound. You can read all about it in this thread.

WV - WV - Sodder Family - 5 children, Christmas eve 1945 - #4

There's already 4 threads. Try to read all of them.

Fascinating case! Thank you for the link.