The Rest of the Story...

[Glow]

Here is how the numbers now stand:

Of the 440 children taken from the ranch (I am excluding the 26 ''disputed minors'' later deemed to be adults), cases for a total of 231 children have been non-suited. The reasons listed by the state for dropping the cases include lack of history of underage marriages in a family, no evidence of physical abuse or a child turned 18.

That leaves cases for 209 children still active.

 

[Glow]

“What Are You Saying, Carolyn?”
By Maggie Jessop

About Carolyn Jessop and her dark and imaginative concoction ESCAPE, it would be an understatement for me to say that Carolyn’s words and actions for the past five years have been shocking and horrifying. You see, I have known her personally for many years, and I would have thought she was a more honorable person than to stoop to such selfish and childish measures as exaggeration and lying to promote her own hateful agenda and purposely hurt innocent people. What is even more interesting than knowing Carolyn (at least what I thought I knew of her) is the fact that I personally know her husband. You see, her husband is my Father, Merril Jessop.

My name is Maggie Jessop. I have known my Father for forty-four years. I am his third child, second daughter, and I think I have lived around my Father long enough to know him. I am well aware of his habits, actions, personality, traditions, beliefs, and intentions; and I know his character. There is something about character that just doesn’t lie. Reputation is what people may think about a person, whether correct or incorrect; but character is what is known about a person. I have known my Father for a long time, and it is amazing to see how a disenchanted wife can paint such an evil picture of a man who is good and kind, honorable and faithful, and actually get so many people to believe something that is the opposite of truth. Are you one of those unsuspecting people, saturated with misdirected sympathy, soaking up the whimsical and fanciful script of a fairytale? Do you remember the tale of The Little Mermaid? Remember when Ursula posed as a beautiful woman with a soft voice? Though she appeared innocent and beautiful, she was still the wicked witch. Have you been hornswoggled and bushwhacked by the emotional tales of a fantasizing female?

I was married the same day as Carolyn, May 17, 1986. I witnessed her wedding ceremony. She witnessed mine. I did not see her make any resistance to the step she was taking. I felt no resistance to the step I was taking. She was over eighteen years old and able to make her own choices. I was twenty-two years old and able to make my own choices. Both of us had the same opportunity. Both of us accepted the guidance of our parents and our religious leader in getting married. Carolyn was a plural wife. I was a plural wife. During the next fifteen years, Carolyn had eight children. I had eight children. Carolyn had four high-risk pregnancies. I had five. Carolyn was always free to leave. I have always been free to leave. Did Carolyn escape? No, she ran. If I wanted to leave, would I have to escape? No, I would just simply walk out the door. Of course, if I did, my children would fight me tooth and nail, just as Carolyn’s did. Did anyone pursue Carolyn? No. If I were to leave, would anyone pursue me? No, but they would help me pack my bags. Why did Carolyn leave? She wanted to. Why don’t I leave? I don’t want to.

Plurality is not for everyone. I may not choose your way of life for myself, but I will respect your choice without criticism. You may not agree with my lifestyle, but of course you will allow me the freedom to exercise my free agency the same as you. Think about this. What if I were to go on a big campaign all over the United States and say a lot of things and make a horrendous stir, maybe even write a book about all the evils and corruption in the world today? I know there is much evil in the world, so I make it my crusade to save everybody from themselves and protect the women and children from those evils. How do you think that would go over? Okay, so Carolyn goes on a campaign to expose the evils that she has decided are present in the FLDS lifestyle. She was miserable, so every other woman must be miserable, right? Wrong. Does she have the right to represent us? Does she have the right to claim we are abused when we claim we are not? Carolyn says it took her a year after her escape to be able to think of herself as a person, not an object. That’s interesting. I do not feel like an object. I am a person, and I feel good about myself and all others. I’m telling you, it is all in the perspective.

The women in our society are all controlled by the men, you say? Hardly. I know hundreds of fine men, young and old, honest men who treat me with kindness and respect, and they look out for my best interest, just as I do theirs. The media image of tyrannical FLDS men who lord it over the women, forcing them to obey, is not part of my religion. The women just don’t dare speak up, you say? Well, what am I doing right now? Am I just an exception? No, I am not an exception. I have hundreds of friends. I know hundreds of very bright, intelligent, well-balanced, beautiful, happy, spunky women. You have to have a deep love for truth to live the way we do. You have to be willing to continually humble yourself before the Lord, and truly desire for Him to bring about the experiences you need in your life to see yourself and improve step by step. You have to have a lot of backbone; yes, even the nerves of steel to endure the mockery of the world.

Carolyn claims she has had a horrible life. Have I had a horrible life? No, but if I had, it would be my own fault. Have I had hard times? Yes. Have I had humbling experiences? Tons. Have I known hardship and want? Of course I have. Jesus was treated very badly. Did He run out and tell everyone? Did He write a book about all those mean and wicked people who mocked Him and even killed Him? Did He start up a campaign of talk shows and media exploitation so He could make a million dollars to pay for the abuses He had endured? There has been a book written. It is called the Holy Bible, and therein, He gives the recipe for success: forgive, forgive, forgive, and then do it some more.

The Jessop family discussed in Carolyn’s book I have known all of my life, even longer than Carolyn has, in fact, nearly three times longer. I’ll tell you how it is. Imagine taking your family and writing a book about them, discussing each person in detail. If you ignore every good thing each person has ever done, and you take each weakness each person has, and then times it by one hundred, and then present it as truth, you would have for yourself a book of lies. When we leave out the good and focus on telling the bad that we think or imagine about a person, even if it were partly true, we only tell on ourselves. The best way to find out the truth about a person is to ask their children. Who knows better than one’s own offspring? I have just told you the truth about my Father. Has anyone asked Betty Jane what she knows about her mother, Carolyn?

There is a fundamental truth that every person in the world should understand and protect. EVERY PERSON ON EARTH HAS THE RIGHT TO HIS OR HER OWN POINT OF VIEW. I am so thankful for mine. I would like to keep it safe. I am thankful for America, the Land of the Free, where I can expect to exercise my choice of religion, my perspective, my point of view without misrepresentation and persecution, without slander and abuse. Don’t make the mistake of assuming that all the sensational tales you hear about the FLDS are true because I can tell you firsthand that they are not. Don’t make the mistake of assuming that all of the women and children are suffering abuse and are powerless to act for themselves. I do not need anyone to save me besides the Lord. My eight children would tell you the same, times ten.

It never ceases to intrigue and amaze me how so many thinking adults, even educated people in the world, even those claiming to be fair and unbiased, can actually be so wise as to be able to form an opinion about something they know nothing about. Listen to the FLDS people. Read about the principles we stand for. Do not make the mistake of trying to fix something that is not broken. Remember, “By their fruits, you shall know them.” Don’t look at the misrepresentations given out by the media and former FLDS. That’s like taking Nero’s testimony to condemn the Christians. That’s like expecting Hitler to be fair with the Jews. That is like condemning the innocent to protect the guilty.

http://www.truthwillprevail.org/index.php?parentid=1&index=122

 

[Glow]

Heres a somewhat biased (the author admits it though ) article on polygamy.


One family is FLDS the other is not.

Another look at "the rest of the story".


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/a...ed-Whats-really-like-women-share-husband.html

 

[Glow]

Texas CPS still withholding evidence from FLDS AALs
by Kurt Schulzke

Charles Childress and his rogue client, Texas CPS, are back in the news. Seems that they just can’t seem to find the “release evidence” button in the FLDS case.
More lawyers for children taken in the raid on the Fundamentalist LDS Church’s YFZ Ranch are taking Texas Child Protective Services back to court to force the agency to hand over evidence of abuse. . .

During a hearing earlier this month, CPS attorneys asked for a “mulligan” when it came to discovery. They said they did not intentionally deny the evidence to lawyers for FLDS parents and children but were caught up in an overwhelmingly large caseload. . .

Let’s get one thing straight: This caseload was overwhelming precisely because Texas CPS deliberately made it overwhelming by cynically kidnapping an entire community last April. If they can’t handle the caseload, they can always just non-suit then entire mess and start the case over as if — contrary to fact — they really are Americans living under a system of laws.

Like other attorneys contacted by the Deseret News, Sloan said she is trying to negotiate with CPS to avoid having to go back to court to force the issue.

“They’ve basically dismissed 75 percent of this case,” she said. “Now that they’re down to a manageable bucket for an agency the size they are, they need to get back to following the rules.”

Why hasn’t CPS turned over the evidence? I think that CPS has destroyed or lost key evidence favoring the FLDS and/or incriminating CPS workers and officials. CPS godfather, Charles Childress, is shaking in his boots. We are, after all, dealing with the same community that gave us Enron and Andersen. Remember those Andersen-Houston document shredders? Where do you think those handy machines ended up?

http://iperceive.net/texas-cps-still-withholding-evidence-from-flds-aals/#more-1558

 

[Glow]

First there was Carey Cockerell and Gary Banks and now this...

http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/33166049.html

HOUSTON — The lead attorney at the center of the largest child removal case in U.S. history has turned in his resignation and neither he nor Texas Child Protective Services are saying why.
Charles Childress was hired by CPS on July 21 to take over the behemoth case involving 439 children taken and eventually returned to the West Texas ranch belonging to the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, a breakaway polygamist sect not affiliated with mainstream Mormonism.

 

[Glow]

The number of FLDS children still on CPS' books is down to fifty:
Taking a child traumatizes child and parents, inflicting irreparable harm on them and their relationship. The trust and intimacy so essential to family relationships is forever upset. Unless justified by law, it is state-perpetrated child and parent abuse and should be prosecuted as a crime.

Even if none of the 50 remaining FLDS cases is non-suited, the final tally will show that Judge Walther (who signed the original, false warrant) and Texas CPS have inflicted severe, irreparable emotional and psychological wounds on 415 children and their parents to achieve marginal (if any) improvement in the lives of 50 kids.

With distressing frequency, children placed in foster care — especially in Texas — end up worse off under state “protection” than they were with their biological parents. And even for those who are somehow better off, the improvement is arguably marginal.

Bottom line: If Walther and CPS are astronomically lucky, they will have severely damaged 8+ FLDS children for every one FLDS child who experiences any improvement as a result of CPS intervention. A corporation with such results goes bankrupt. Sometimes, the officers end up in jail, especially if — as is true of Texas CPS — the officers insist on telling investors that spending $8 to generate every dollar of sales is a profitable activity.

The FLDS case reveals Texas CPS — as never before — to be a monumental fraud on families and taxpayers. The stubbornness of CPS liars in this case has been awe-inspiring. No matter how bad the facts, CPS always insists that it did the right thing and will do it again if given the opportunity. This is an organization that simply refuses to admit when it has made a mistake. Texas CPS, and similar organizations around the country, should be liquidated, just like failed banks.

http://www.heartkeepercommonroom.blogspot.com/

 

[jat]

If the FLDS was an apartment complex the children would not have been taken. This is an apartment complex with doors to the outside locked, run by a bunch of sex offenders, peopled by parents who believe they must do whatever the sex offenders tell them to with their children.

If any excuse other than religion were given for this, there'd be no one doubting that the children had to be removed until the parents agreed to stop handing their children's fates over to the sex offenders.

I agree wholeheartedly. If these were all adults living at YFZ...no problem...go about your business...but there are children never being given the FREEDOM this country guarantees! Those children don't have a choice.

Now, I don't condone the actions of CPS. While I was happy that someone was paying attention to FLDS instead of just ignoring them as per usual, I could not figure out how on earth they were doing what they were doing legally!

Being a leftist radical myself I sympathize with the prior statements, but NOT when children are involved...and the part that gets me more than anything else is...the...oooooooooohhhhh, there weren't 60 pregnant teens...there were only 10! Oh, oh, well, that's better. Heck with those 10 girls that were ceremoniously married to men much older than they and forced to copulate and bear children with these pedophiles. I mean, we can handle 10. No problem. Yep, yep, Bill, that's right...send 'em back. I mean WTH?

 

[Glow]

If these were all adults living at YFZ...no problem...go about your business...but there are children never being given the FREEDOM this country guarantees!

You mention freedom for children...
if you were a baby wouldn't "freedom" entail being able to nurse at your mothers breast?

(babies were taken from nursing mothers - some ended up in the ER. Others were just traumatized)

If you were a toddler wouldn't freedom entail being with people and things that are familiar to you?

(the toddlers were left in Fort Concho with no access to running water or bathrooms except 2 outdoor privys - for upwards of 500 hundred people.)

While you consider the above, remember that no one - not even the State of Texas saw any abuse of children in this age group. None. They took them arbitrarily in case of "future abuse".

That has never been done by CPS in any other situation. They over reached their authority. That is why the children were given back.

Those children don't have a choice.

Children don't have a choice. They are children. That is why we as a society have to pay attention. That is why when hundreds of children are ripped out of their homes we have to make sure we are not allowing a situation where they have been taken out of a frying pan and thrown into the fire.

That is why this is a knife that cuts both ways. At least at home they were with people who cared about them and were invested in them. Once they were confiscated they had nothing. And remember that these young children who were put through such extreme trauma weren't even in the age group or gender that was being "abused"

Now, I don't condone the actions of CPS. While I was happy that someone was paying attention to FLDS instead of just ignoring them as per usual, I could not figure out how on earth they were doing what they were doing legally!

Being a leftist radical myself I sympathize with the prior statements, but NOT when children are involved...and the part that gets me more than anything else is...the...oooooooooohhhhh, there weren't 60 pregnant teens...there were only 10! Oh, oh, well, that's better. Heck with those 10 girls that were ceremoniously married to men much older than they and forced to copulate and bear children with these pedophiles. I mean, we can handle 10. No problem. Yep, yep, Bill, that's right...send 'em back. I mean WTH?

I dont know of anyone who thinks that the number of girls involved should be the determining factor. However if we are going to talk numbers...you may want to read about the CPS in Texas. Their incest and abuse rates are very high. So far I haven't heard one person demanding that we raid the Texas CPS and take all the children away until we can determine which foster homes are safe and which arent.

In the end, it will be clear that this case was never about the wellbeing of children. It was about politics, religious prejudice and the personal agendas of ex sect members who were willing to distort the truth in order for the law to be able to step in.

As regards the law stepping in that is the most alarming part of this all.
If we tolerate this type of behavior by our government then we have a problem that is much bigger than pregnant teens of some strange dressing little religious sect. In the words of one who said it much better than I can:

The first truth is that the liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than their democratic state itself. That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power

Franklin D. Roosevelt -

 

[Glow]

"The abuse rate for FLDS is still lower than for the population at large, if we trust CPS figures for that (and why would we?).

NCCPR calls it a work of fiction:

There is an Orwellian cast to the report's repeated claims about keeping the children safe, healthy and comfortable. These claims are directly contradicted by the only independent witnesses to the children's internment – 11 therapists contracted by the state itself. For anyone who has forgotten, those statements are available here.

In the case of the 263 other children Texas CPS claims were abused, that means that they were allowed to live in households where underage marriages allegedly took place. But that problem could have been solved by removing the alleged abusers. And, indeed, criminal prosecutions now are underway. As we said at the outset, there never was a need to take these children from their mothers and traumatize them through their needless internment. That is made clear by the fact that all of the FLDS children except one is home, and only 15 are even under state supervision. What happened? Mostly, the mothers took a couple of parenting classes. Surely that could have been accomplished without traumatizing all those children with needless foster care in the first place.

But even if one were to assume that every single one of the 275 children Texas CPS claimed were "abused" needed to be taken – a claim I would argue is preposterous – that brings the total to 275. That still leaves 174 children who, Texas CPS now effectively admits, were taken for no reason whatsoever.

In effect, Texas CPS has admitted to engaging in child abuse on a massive scale."

http://www.heartkeepercommonroom.blogspot.com/

 

[PolyGraph]

"The abuse rate for FLDS is still lower than for the population at large, if we trust CPS figures for that (and why would we?).

NCCPR calls it a work of fiction:

There is an Orwellian cast to the report's repeated claims about keeping the children safe, healthy and comfortable. These claims are directly contradicted by the only independent witnesses to the children's internment – 11 therapists contracted by the state itself. For anyone who has forgotten, those statements are available here.

In the case of the 263 other children Texas CPS claims were abused, that means that they were allowed to live in households where underage marriages allegedly took place. But that problem could have been solved by removing the alleged abusers. And, indeed, criminal prosecutions now are underway. As we said at the outset, there never was a need to take these children from their mothers and traumatize them through their needless internment. That is made clear by the fact that all of the FLDS children except one is home, and only 15 are even under state supervision. What happened? Mostly, the mothers took a couple of parenting classes. Surely that could have been accomplished without traumatizing all those children with needless foster care in the first place.

But even if one were to assume that every single one of the 275 children Texas CPS claimed were "abused" needed to be taken – a claim I would argue is preposterous – that brings the total to 275. That still leaves 174 children who, Texas CPS now effectively admits, were taken for no reason whatsoever.

In effect, Texas CPS has admitted to engaging in child abuse on a massive scale."

http://www.heartkeepercommonroom.blogspot.com/

Hi Glow! I of all people know too well what it is like to have children ripped from them (all do to a disgruntled ex) anyway, not to get into my story, but I have a few questions for you....Dont take them in anyway as being negative, Im just curious...

1.) If you are really a 'woman' from an flds sect, then how is it that you can post online? I thought internet was forbidden to you all, this is what I thought I heard on tv anyway...

2.) Also are you trying to say that the underage pregnant girls on the compound do not exist or that they were not pregnant from an older man? then how is this not abuse, Im sure they did not get pregnant (due to your strict religion) from another teenage boy??? so where did all the pregnant teens come from???

3.) Another thing is please explain to me how over 50 unmarked baby graves with no name s on them is possible without some sort of abuse going on?? Did they all just die for natural causes? I think that is highly suspicious if you ask me.

4.) And you say Carolyn is lieing, well sounds like a story about someone holding a baby's head underwater for minutes at a time to stop them from crying is EXTREME abuse Id say, that does not sound like a made up story to me, if she wanted to 'make something up' why would she not just say something to the affect of "oh the children were beaten as infants etc etc" she does not say that though, she said specifically that she saw leaders of the sec t hold babies heads under water to stop them from crying, sounds like she is telling the truth in my book, and ANYONE Im sorry Glow but anyone in a sect that supports a group of people that do these types of things to children is turning their eyes away from God and not toward him. MOO

Pray for all the children EVERYWHERE that are abused :-(

 

[Glow]

Hi Glow! I of all people know too well what it is like to have children ripped from them (all do to a disgruntled ex) anyway, not to get into my story, but I have a few questions for you....Dont take them in anyway as being negative, Im just curious...

1.) If you are really a 'woman' from an flds sect, then how is it that you can post online? I thought internet was forbidden to you all, this is what I thought I heard on tv anyway...

How about we start here....where on earth did you get the idea that I am an FLDS woman?

 

[JaneInOz]

Reading this breaks my heart
Im in Australia so limited info on this but of course it Was on our news. And being in the Adoption Blog World it was blogged about.
Im not turning this into an adoption purpose post but wanted to comment on some of your last posts Glow

Taking a child traumatizes child and parents, inflicting irreparable harm on them and their relationship. The trust and intimacy so essential to family relationships is forever upset. Unless justified by law, it is state-perpetrated child and parent abuse and should be prosecuted as a crime.

You mention freedom for children...
if you were a baby wouldn't "freedom" entail being able to nurse at your mothers breast?

(babies were taken from nursing mothers - some ended up in the ER. Others were just traumatized)

Hmmmmm Why is it that people can empathize with these babies ripped from their mothers arms but not for the ones ADOPTED out ?

OR because its all nicey nicey and a Gift from God, and destiny from God, and all done for a nice little sum of somewhere in the 10's of Thousands (These days) or where its *the right thing to do*
That its OKAY and therefore no trauma occurs

As I said I don't want to start a adoption discussion (war) with any of those people out there that do not believe adoption causes trauma (but hey if you do wish to discuss feel free to PM me!!!)
But I just wanted to say how its amazing how something which is the very same thing - ripping a baby from its mother is horrifying under one circumstance and not another !!!

(Glow this was in no way directed at you :blowkiss:


And then just for something different ! re below

1.) If you are really a 'woman' from an flds sect, then how is it that you can post online? I thought internet was forbidden to you all, this is what I thought I heard on tv anyway...

How about we start here....where on earth did you get the idea that I am an FLDS woman?

LOL I have no idea why someone would think you were a woman from the FLDS ! it states openly on the first post what you were doing.
Always read the first couple of posts and the last ! even if you cant read the entire thread hey

 

[PolyGraph]

Hi Glow! I of all people know too well what it is like to have children ripped from them (all do to a disgruntled ex) anyway, not to get into my story, but I have a few questions for you....Dont take them in anyway as being negative, Im just curious...

1.) If you are really a 'woman' from an flds sect, then how is it that you can post online? I thought internet was forbidden to you all, this is what I thought I heard on tv anyway...

How about we start here....where on earth did you get the idea that I am an FLDS woman?

haha from reading the one post where it talks about how you knew carolyn jessop but im sorry i think that might have been an article you posted lol....hahahahaha, I ll have to scroll up and look. It seemed as if you were speaking in the first person so I got confused. lol sorry for the misunderstanding.

 

[Glow]

LOL I have no idea why someone would think you were a woman from the FLDS ! it states openly on the first post what you were doing.
Always read the first couple of posts and the last ! even if you cant read the entire thread hey

Wise advice Jane!

 

[Glow]

haha from reading the one post where it talks about how you knew carolyn jessop but im sorry i think that might have been an article you posted lol....hahahahaha, I ll have to scroll up and look. It seemed as if you were speaking in the first person so I got confused. lol sorry for the misunderstanding.

No problem Poly! I am here to discuss this case. Wherever it takes us.

 

[InLightAndTruth]

:behindbarGlow

Some how I feel I know you and you know me! I wondered how long it would take you to find this site?

The truth about the FLDS started long before Texas!

Long before you or others were reading about Texas, I was the Tri-State rep of FOR KIDS SAKE a child abuse prevention agency and Arizona-Nevada-Utah were my states. The FLDS were secretly running underage girls to the Caliente Hot Springs Resort in Nevada to perform their secret unions. The Resort then, was owned my now indicted Fredrick Merrill Jessop. I had clients that were sexually abused, but some how apologist born out of the Texas raid, erase the past, the FLDS most of us know.

The killing of the dogs was real and ordered by Fred Jessop after 1 dog mauled a 2 year old child. The remains of hundreds of dogs were burried in the creekbed, families turned in these dogs.

The FLDS did not suck up Texas social services monies, because they were still collecting in Arizona & Utah! Half truths, don't make a whole truth!

For every $1.00 in taxes taken out of the twin cities of Hildale/Colorado City, Mohave county returns $8.00 in social services! Now Glow, you are going to ask how I know that? Because I know all 3 of the County Supervisors who fork over these funds! Sockwell, Byers and Buster Johnson. Johnson is a friend and we together have spect time in the polygamist community. Gary Engels the Investigator that hits in his trailer office in Colorado City is another friend and you don't know squat about the investigation or whats in his files. He works for Mohave County DA Matt Smith!

The UEP was restructured and the courts appointed Bruce Wisan as the Fudiciary or accountant if you prefer. Bruce's lawyer is Jeffrey Shields. The 5 temporary trustees are now Deloy Bateman, Carolyn Jessop, Seth Cooke, Katie Cox and Mr. Timpson (Timpson was ousted in the 1987 purge). I know 4 of the 5, so the UEP I understand. To understand the finances you need to read Rulon T. Jeffs 1989 deposition, which I doubt you knew about.

There are back issues of some 100 assault rifles purchased in 1981 by then Louis Barlow, S.A.M. 180 rifles, sold as part of an end days survival kit. What, you thought Texas was being over prepared with body armour? I have the serial numbers of the weapons and know the BATF agent who investigated this in the 1980's, he was Jim Gober!

How about DEA? The mackerts, you have heard about them in the news! Rena purchased a 10 pound bale from Louis & Truman Barlow and resold it in SLC, I have this all on cassette. In 2000 she sent me to the FBI to ask for Imunity From Prosecution for her 1991 purchase. The statute of Limitations was 6 years, so the sale and purchase were to old to prosecute or defend from.

It didn't stop! William Black now on the FBI's 10 Most Wanted list had a drug operation in the center of Hildale, in a town where police or militia follow strangers around and with 20 employees, some up from Las Vegas operated in open site, not likely!

The FLDS under investigation started long before Texas, the complaints filed with Arizona DPS & Utah DPS were in October & November of 2000. The director of P.O.S.T. in Arizona was Garrett, in Utah Deardon in 2000. The St. George Police Chief Robert Flowers replaced Deardon in January of 2001 for Utah.

The state investigators in Utah were Mike King pre 2000 under Janet Grahm as AG. Under Mark Shurtleff elected in 2001 Ron Barton, followed by Jim Hill. In Arizona under Janet Napolitano there were many who got close, but ran from the issue. On December 3rd of 2000 it was Deputy State Attorney Leesa Morrison assigned to the issue. Ron Gibson, Suzi Ellis, Meg Pollard and Lee R. followed.

You want to debate the issues sure! But, their are things in closed files that neither of us know and considering your sources, I think you are a constitutionist more interested in civil liberties, than FLDS facts!

 

[InLightAndTruth]

----- Original Message -----
From: Winston Blackmore
To: Jay Beswick
Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2005 6:49 PM
Subject: Re: Surprise by polygamists feared


Hello Jay,

I must say that I did enjoy visiting with Buster Johnson and Terry Goddard. I didn't even know that Kaffenberger was a radio personality until we had talked some 15 minutes. Gary Engels introduced him to me. I guess that will happen in the morning.

Really Jay, what could I say that anyone would be interested in?

WB

____________________

So Glow, you have Willie Jessop & was it F. Merrill Jessop? I'll match my sources against yours any day!

 

[Glow]

:behindbarGlow

Some how I feel I know you and you know me! I wondered how long it would take you to find this site?

I have been a member here since 2003. Thats how long it took me to find this site.

Somehow I feel you are making an assumption. And you know the old saw about that....*advertiser censored* -u-me, right? Assuming on the internet can be a bad idea at times. This is one of those times.

I think you are a constitutionist more interested in civil liberties, than FLDS facts!

You are very right about the "constitutionist" part of your above statement. The part that might need elaborating is the part about facts. I am always interested in the facts.

----- Original Message -----

So Glow, you have Willie Jessop & was it F. Merrill Jessop? I'll match my sources against yours any day!

I dont have any of the above people. (You really might want to start adding some research into your posts at some point) I have never met them or conversed with them. My "sources" have all been online, including the court documents that are accessible to the public.

 

[InLightAndTruth]

MyKodiak

There are many spins, but pretty much 3 sides. Those in the middle with random comments and opinions, those who have come to bat for the FLDS and as many, fighting to hold the FLDS accountable. The latter two are in a constant fight to control what is read on dozens of forums and blogs. The SLC Tribune is the best example with each news artictle getting 300 to 2800 post comments, from the 2 opposing sides. On the Tribune one organized "Rule of Law" approach is led by a group refered to as "Kindred Spirits", another group of slightly smaller numbers, counters each and every post. Watching the posting times and frequency tells you some do this full time, retired or paid by whom?

The names of the real people are in some cases known. It requires some reading to determine sentence structure, spelling and other gramar. The most famous is B*** Medvecky who is also webmaster of 2 pro FLDS web sites. So to answer your point, yes their are supporters by design on any site that takes many hits, an attempt to offer a version of traditional family values for the FLDS.

With an email address I would gladly offer attachements of FLDS doctrine on the reassignment of wives and blood atonement, both FLDS theology often denied by apologist, not wanting this non traditional doctrine exposed.

The issues are many and I am not clear on how much I am aloud to post in these forums. I was both a rep. of FOR KIDS SAKE a child abuse prevention non profit covering Hildale/Colorado City, as well a member of the Utah Gang Investigators Assoc. and Washington County Interagency Gang-Drug Task Force through 2001 in Utah. These blogs and forums tend to know what gets printed, but little of the informants and what evidence actually exist!

The well armed Texas Rangers and DPS more than likely knew of weapons issues, drugs and other crimes, alledged by peticular members of the sect.

Below at the risk of finding out how much detail I can post, drugs were removed from someone in Hildale that was operating what we believed was a "meth" lab there. The samples were turned over to state investigators in Arizona, those calls recorded with the AG staff. The drugs tested at state labs, Utah notified, employees that were NOT FLDS interviewed and per the below, Utah's investigator was providing me with a contact with DEA. With drug samples taken, soil analysis, recorded calls with state investigators and emails retained, still apologist pretend none of this happened.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron Barton" <rbarton@utah.gov>
To: <patches@as.net>
Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2004 11:24 AM
Subject: Contact from DEA


> Jay,
>
> I left you a voice mail message - Tom Russell from the DEA in SLC
would
> like to talk to you. He asked me to make a contact with you first
so
> that you would know that he is legitimate. Tom's phone number is
> 801-524-4235. I'll be giving him your phone number also.
>
> Thanks
>
>
> Lt. Ronald C. Barton
> Criminal Investigator
> Utah Attorney General's Office
> (801) 281-1219

Upfront the profile picture is me, with Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio from Phoenix. I know its not likely we can all be straight forward, but hiding behind an alias and denying 2 decades of abuse will crumble in court. "The Truth Will Prevail" and I am not refering to the FLDS web site of the same name!

 

[InLightAndTruth]

Gathering evidence on site and turning it over to proper authorities was a complicated ordeal, much of this as a pending investigation won't see a newspaper for years, does that mean evidence was never collected? Because you haven't read it in the newspaper, doesn't mean the it didn't happen! Renegade factions of the FLDS were good at enterprising and surviving, so much so, some of us wonder about YFZ proxcimity to the Mexican border and more precisely Colonnial LeBaron/Colonnial Juarez, search these locations for drugs!


----- Original Message -----
From: "Meg Pollard" <Meg.Pollard@ag.state.az.us>
To: <patches@as.net>
Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 9:33 AM
Subject: Re: Drug Samples Flora Provided


Jay:

Thank you for your message. With respect to XXXXX and the "drug" sample, I am in the awkward position of not being able to release information obtained from other individuals. XXXXX is certainly welcome to contact Ron regarding the status of anything she has provided to us. I can assure you, however, that we have not lost or misplaced any evidence given to us by anyone.