The Springfield Three--missing since June 1992 - #5

[pittsburghgirl]

The News-Leader series "Ten Years Later" just mentions the TV. That really doesn't mean anything. Not every detail makes it into such a recap.

http://www.news-leader.com/article/20020607/NEWS01/60608051

 

[former central time]

I seem to have the same recollection from reading of it somewhere. In fact, I believe I saw it just the other day. But then perhaps I was 'dreaming.' Even the police report states the "TV set" in Suzie's bedroom was on...(snip) "Kirby and Henson state they announced themselves and went on in the residence where they found the T.V. set in Suzanne's bedroom on."...(snip) The News-Leader summary from 2002 also stated the TV set; didn't mention the VCR. I have mentioned in one of my posts (on another site after doing a "google" search) about the TV/VCR as being on but I also seem to recall reading about the "static" as well. If I run across what I thought I had read of the "static" that I will cite it. Curious..... I might unwittingly be the source of this controversy. Sigh....

I did find this so another poster believes the VCR was on: (snip).... "The perp either gets in place a bit before or a bit after the girls arrive and start to settle in for the night, and that’s when they likely give him the ideal setup of opening the sliding door to air out fumes from the varnish, and at the same time settle down watching a movie on the tv (there’s nothing on tv to watch at that time of morning other than skinemax, thus accounting for the VCR being on), which is facing opposite from the sliding door."....(snip)This was from Thread #4, post #86, 08-05-2009, 11:43 AM on Websleuths.

A couple of points to bring out on this, which may or may not be pertinent.

Question, was that house, and Suzie's room, equipped with cable ? Personally I grew up in a house that hasn't had over the air broadcasts since the mid 70's, but the HD conversion of recent has enlightened me to how many holdouts there still are out there to 'over the air' broadcasting.

A TV set (today or 80 years ago) is merely a monitor, it projects whatever signal you put in it. Static *IS* really nothing, period. A black screen, or some other color, color bars, anything, which most of us might see a 'nothing' is still a video signal of some sort. As many of us may recall, in the old days when using the VCR, we were told to turn the TV to channel 3 or 4, whatever one is not in use in our market, which in this case would be channel 4 (avoiding interference from KY). You get static, until the video tape is picked up. When the tape comes out, back to static...UNLESS you have cable, then it defaults to the TV settings. Many modern VCR's will go to a blank slate.

If the girls were watching a broadcast channel, I'm suspecting it's possible. In 1992 I was in a small media market, and we even had a station or two broadcast 24/7. When I came to Springfield a couple years later, I think all the affiliates were 24/7. On a Saturday night, at this hour, would be slim pick'ins, but some old obscure movie or an infomercial, is possible. But, by 9 AM on a Sunday, just about ANYWHERE in this country, an active broadcast station would have had something on the air then, or a slate of their ID. Therefor, it would appear, that house didn't have cable and the girls were watching some tape. I suspect the tape was taken, for whatever reason.

 

[Hurricane]

According to the previous occupant who lived there for 5 yrs the house was wired and serviced by cable TV. She used the converted garage (Suzie's bedroom) as a family room during 8 - 9 months of the year (there was no heat out there in the winter months) and watched TV out there. I don't know if Sherrill had a cable TV account or not but it is my opinion that she did, and that the reason the VCR was on was Suzie's way of having a remote control on an older TV. I don't know of any published source for the comment about the TV showing static. There is a published comment about the volume of the TV being turned up high. I don't believe they were watching a movie or that there is a missing tape.

 

[HmmWhoKnows]

So can anyone elaborate on any of the GJ3 suspects? And how did the one poster who posted information about them here, able to get such information.

Someone please help me out here.

 

[Missouri Mule]

So can anyone elaborate on any of the GJ3 suspects? And how did the one poster who posted information about them here, able to get such information.

Someone please help me out here.

I've discussed what is publicly known about them and other impressions. What exactly are you referring to? It wouldn't be difficult to figure out the first one described based on reading the local newspapers. The others allegedly involved I had never heard of.

As you may or may not know, any grand jury subject is free to speak his mind about what went on in the GJ setting. So any of these individuals could have spoken out themselves and "outed" themselves. So that information could simply have worked its way through the grapevine. I've heard so many names bandied about over the years I've stopped counting.

One person who was not discussed in the lead-up to the grand jury evidently was Cox because it was there that his main alibi witness recanted and then all of the information about him surfaced. And there seems to be some confusion, even today, apparently, about what grand jury we are talking about. I had thought it was a federal grand jury but in one news account it said Greene County grand jury. So I'm not even sure of that anymore although I do believe it was a federal grand jury. I believe the Greene County grand jury had more to do with the grave robbing and we know who those individuals are.

 

[CaliMama]

I am also wondering why some people think that LE knows who did it, but can't prove it when detectives working the case have alluded that the case was so mind boggling that "maybe aliens were to blame" http://www.truecrimediary.com/index.cfm?page=cases&id=33. Granted, this statement was made in September 2007, but how much more information could LE have received in the past 4 years?

 

[Missouri Mule]

I am also wondering why some people think that LE knows who did it, but can't prove it when detectives working the case have alluded that the case was so mind boggling that "maybe aliens were to blame" http://www.truecrimediary.com/index.cfm?page=cases&id=33. Granted, this statement was made in September 2007, but how much more information could LE have received in the past 4 years?

The number of people who have expressed to me and on the internet is almost infinite and some will say that the police know who did this but don't have the proof and are waiting for a confession. I've said several times who I believe is responsible and have been told that there is no way under the sun he is responsible.

I don't believe that I have ever heard or read any official police statement that they know who did this. In fact, the former prosecutor has stated that he wants the three individuals who were allegedly at George's found and questioned. This tells me he didn't know and I really don't believe the police have concealed that information from him either. The bottom line is that I don't think anyone knows. What I don't believe is that this case is some large conspiracy, which if true leaves only a very small circle of perps and perhaps only one person.

 

[CaliMama]

A couple of points to bring out on this, which may or may not be pertinent.

Question, was that house, and Suzie's room, equipped with cable ? Personally I grew up in a house that hasn't had over the air broadcasts since the mid 70's, but the HD conversion of recent has enlightened me to how many holdouts there still are out there to 'over the air' broadcasting.

A TV set (today or 80 years ago) is merely a monitor, it projects whatever signal you put in it. Static *IS* really nothing, period. A black screen, or some other color, color bars, anything, which most of us might see a 'nothing' is still a video signal of some sort. As many of us may recall, in the old days when using the VCR, we were told to turn the TV to channel 3 or 4, whatever one is not in use in our market, which in this case would be channel 4 (avoiding interference from KY). You get static, until the video tape is picked up. When the tape comes out, back to static...UNLESS you have cable, then it defaults to the TV settings. Many modern VCR's will go to a blank slate.

If the girls were watching a broadcast channel, I'm suspecting it's possible. In 1992 I was in a small media market, and we even had a station or two broadcast 24/7. When I came to Springfield a couple years later, I think all the affiliates were 24/7. On a Saturday night, at this hour, would be slim pick'ins, but some old obscure movie or an infomercial, is possible. But, by 9 AM on a Sunday, just about ANYWHERE in this country, an active broadcast station would have had something on the air then, or a slate of their ID. Therefor, it would appear, that house didn't have cable and the girls were watching some tape. I suspect the tape was taken, for whatever reason.

There is a chance that cable was hooked up to the main TV in the living room but not the one in Suzie's room. My parents did it that way during that time. I only got TV with my rabbit ears It seems like everything was fuzzy using those.

 

[HmmWhoKnows]

Other than Garrison, who are the other 2 suspects in the "GJ3?"

I've been told by people I trust and close to LE that the proof isn't there but that one look at the big box of case files makes the answer "extremely obvious."

 

[Missouri Mule]

Other than Garrison, who are the other 2 suspects in the "GJ3?"

I've been told by people I trust and close to LE that the proof isn't there but that one look at the big box of case files makes the answer "extremely obvious."

Not to be in any way critical, if it is "extremely obvious" that the perp(s) are known, how is it that this information hasn't leaked out? I say this because if the former prosecutor, Darrell Moore, wanted the alleged men who supposedly were with the women found at the alleged George's sighting, he didn't see or hear anything "extremely obvious" from the SPD. I would find that surprising if it were true.

As to the GJ3, it is my belief that their names are known. However we are not supposed to know who they are. However, they can legally discuss their participation and their testimony in the public media if they so choose. My personal belief is that this is a dry hole, however. Some will disagree of course. It seems unlikely to me that three such individuals could have been in the home and not left something of their DNA behind for the forensics crew that came along after they had left, if they had actually committed this crime.

 

[Jaya]

There is a published comment about the volume of the TV being turned up high. I don't believe they were watching a movie or that there is a missing tape.

This is probably a very minor point, but didn't the Disappeared episode say that the volume was turned DOWN almost all the way? It is when Bartt is talking, and he mentions that Suzie had problems with insomnia and would often turn on the tv softly when she couldn't sleep. He is basically going over how the tv being on and the volume down would reinforce that Suzie had, in fact, gone to bed at some point that evening.

 

[Missouri Mule]

This is probably a very minor point, but didn't the Disappeared episode say that the volume was turned DOWN almost all the way? It is when Bartt is talking, and he mentions that Suzie had problems with insomnia and would often turn on the tv softly when she couldn't sleep. He is basically going over how the tv being on and the volume down would reinforce that Suzie had, in fact, gone to bed at some point that evening.

Excellent observation! I have from time to time wondered if the girls had actually arrived by themselves. I have come to believe that they in fact did arrive and were in bed. Since the blinds were cracked in her bedroom this suggests strongly that she might have let someone in the house through her bedroom door knowing him or them. I believe it was a sliding door arrangement. To have done so would indicate she knew the person or persons if this is what happened.

 

[former central time]

Excellent observation! I have from time to time wondered if the girls had actually arrived by themselves. I have come to believe that they in fact did arrive and were in bed. Since the blinds were cracked in her bedroom this suggests strongly that she might have let someone in the house through her bedroom door knowing him or them. I believe it was a sliding door arrangement. To have done so would indicate she knew the person or persons if this is what happened.

Not to drag this out more, but on the Disappeared program, Janis McCall says the '...TV was fuzzy...' However, she arrived later in the day. All this 'TV fuzzy' or 'static' sounds like the movies...'bum, bum, buuuuummmm,' (cue spooky music) something bad is going to happen. But, if we have TV's on (I'm not completely sure if there were two on, one in the living room and the other in Suzie's), and they are not broadcasting a clear picture, and no video tapes were involved, that's odd. So...

If we are to assume (not the best word) that the girls came home and began watching some kind of broadcast program, live over the air/cablecast and the next day we have nothing on the tube, there are two basic possibilities.

A) Cable or antenna was disconnected, disrupted or TV/tuner was set to dummy channel not in use in the area.

B) The girls were watching some distant, obscure station which had better reception at night than during the day.

I know AM radio is greatly effected by this, but I'm not certain TV signals are and to the same dramatic extent. Choice 'A' means it was a deliberate human act.

I don't have any experience with rabbit ears and over the air analog signals in my adult life as I've always been cable. But, in this area and era, could you possibly pull in distant signals from Tulsa, Kansas City, Little Rock or Joplin ?

 

[Hurricane]

Not to drag this out more, but on the Disappeared program, Janis McCall says the '...TV was fuzzy...' However, she arrived later in the day. All this 'TV fuzzy' or 'static' sounds like the movies...'bum, bum, buuuuummmm,' (cue spooky music) something bad is going to happen. But, if we have TV's on (I'm not completely sure if there were two on, one in the living room and the other in Suzie's), and they are not broadcasting a clear picture, and no video tapes were involved, that's odd. So...

If we are to assume (not the best word) that the girls came home and began watching some kind of broadcast program, live over the air/cablecast and the next day we have nothing on the tube, there are two basic possibilities.

A) Cable or antenna was disconnected, disrupted or TV/tuner was set to dummy channel not in use in the area.

B) The girls were watching some distant, obscure station which had better reception at night than during the day.

I know AM radio is greatly effected by this, but I'm not certain TV signals are and to the same dramatic extent. Choice 'A' means it was a deliberate human act.

I don't have any experience with rabbit ears and over the air analog signals in my adult life as I've always been cable. But, in this area and era, could you possibly pull in distant signals from Tulsa, Kansas City, Little Rock or Joplin ?

Early Sunday morning the volume on the TV was found to be turned up high but not screaming loud, as if you wanted to hear the TV from room to room. The logical conclusion is that the volume was turned up to cover up noise from the night before. And Suzie's room was wired for cable TV.

I have been puzzled by Janis McCall's comment that the TV was fuzzy. Remember that she did not arrive there until that night. Are we to assume that neither Janelle, Mike Henson, or the first of the 18 others to arrive that day wouldn't have turned off the TV before the McCall's were even called? I believe that Janelle most likely turned down the volume upon entering that morning (remember, she listened to phone messages) and someone else turned off the TV later. I believe that Janis McCall is stating what she was told by one of the others who arrived before she was called, and that may or may not be accurate.

Facts about the house and the condition in which it was found which have obviously been held back by LE have been uncovered, and have not been mentioned on this board or any other to my knowledge.

 

[badbob55]

This is probably nothing but, did they cut their own grass or have someone to cut it?

 

[Missouri Mule]

Not to drag this out more, but on the Disappeared program, Janis McCall says the '...TV was fuzzy...' However, she arrived later in the day. All this 'TV fuzzy' or 'static' sounds like the movies...'bum, bum, buuuuummmm,' (cue spooky music) something bad is going to happen. But, if we have TV's on (I'm not completely sure if there were two on, one in the living room and the other in Suzie's), and they are not broadcasting a clear picture, and no video tapes were involved, that's odd. So...

If we are to assume (not the best word) that the girls came home and began watching some kind of broadcast program, live over the air/cablecast and the next day we have nothing on the tube, there are two basic possibilities.

A) Cable or antenna was disconnected, disrupted or TV/tuner was set to dummy channel not in use in the area.

B) The girls were watching some distant, obscure station which had better reception at night than during the day.

I know AM radio is greatly effected by this, but I'm not certain TV signals are and to the same dramatic extent. Choice 'A' means it was a deliberate human act.

I don't have any experience with rabbit ears and over the air analog signals in my adult life as I've always been cable. But, in this area and era, could you possibly pull in distant signals from Tulsa, Kansas City, Little Rock or Joplin ?

I believe you could get a hazy picture of Joplin but not the others. It's been so long that I don't remember much except it was necessary to have an antennae to see the local network channels if one used satellite service. I believe cable had the network channels. I'm not sure why holding back information at this point would advance the case unless the perp(s) would reveal something about the TV that was unknown but how would anyone know for certain since so many people traipsed through the house and there are apparently different recollections? At this late date I think it is pure speculation.

I'd be more interested in speculating how entry was gained. If Suzie let in the intruders she must have known them. If they came in the front door, then I am inclined to think Sherrill let them in which goes back to the theory that a "ruse" was used such as the dog barking, etc.

 

[Hurricane]

I believe you could get a hazy picture of Joplin but not the others. It's been so long that I don't remember much except it was necessary to have an antennae to see the local network channels if one used satellite service. I believe cable had the network channels. I'm not sure why holding back information at this point would advance the case unless the perp(s) would reveal something about the TV that was unknown but how would anyone know for certain since so many people traipsed through the house and there are apparently different recollections? At this late date I think it is pure speculation.

I'd be more interested in speculating how entry was gained. If Suzie let in the intruders she must have known them. If they came in the front door, then I am inclined to think Sherrill let them in which goes back to the theory that a "ruse" was used such as the dog barking, etc.

Richard, I never said anything about holding back information about the TV.

 

[Missouri Mule]

Richard, I never said anything about holding back information about the TV.

I stand corrected. I misread your response. My apologies.

 

[HmmWhoKnows]

Is there any kind of mapping done or records of old farm wells in Greene and surrounding counties?

 

[HmmWhoKnows]

Basically you have what OldDog and "Think about It" said on AA site.

There was no DNA or signs of a struggle in the house because the crime was outside. This is the PROBABLE scenario. The girls would not open the door for anyone other than LE or a fireman with a firetruck curbside. Someone TRUSTED lured them out. So we have most likely someone following them home from the party. Because any serial killer/random attacker/rapist isn't going to get the girls to come out without a struggle. Especially 2 girls and a mother who would probably go at lengths to save her child.

Perps show up. Girls come outside. Mom puts book down, sees what's up. Perps subdue girls. Mom comes out door yelling to see what is happening. Perps abduct mom with a little bit of a fight.

I think Sherrill was taken last obviously. The porch globe shows the one and only struggle. So who all wanted to keep going to the house on Delmar to "continue the party?" SA? MH? Their pals? Someone wanted to see what they were up to after Battlefield parties were over.