The Trash Bag in Casey's Trunk

[Harmony 2]

George and Cindy kept a pristine home. I doubt if they allowed stink producing garbage to go into their kitchen wastebasket.

According to Tony and his roommates, ICA was the perfect little homemaker while she stayed with him. She was the one doing the cooking and cleaning. While auditioning to become Mrs. Lazzaro, ICA would have worked hard to show off her homemaking skills which would include keeping the kitchen wastebasket stink-free.

Even Casey attributed the odor to something deceased when she told Lee that two dead squirrels had crawled up into the motor and died (yes dead squirrels crawled according to Casey) and when she told Amy there was something dead definitely plastered under her car. So even Casey who knew about the trash attributed the odor to something dead.

 

[Studio_Medic]

George and Cindy kept a pristine home. I doubt if they allowed stink producing garbage to go into their kitchen wastebasket.

According to Tony and his roommates, ICA was the perfect little homemaker while she stayed with him. She was the one doing the cooking and cleaning. While auditioning to become Mrs. Lazzaro, ICA would have worked hard to show off her homemaking skills which would include keeping the kitchen wastebasket stink-free.

But one of them responded when asked if she also took out the trash, he responded "Oh no way that was the guys job".......hmmm

 

[Just Jayla]

Fatty acids, such as the ones detected (palmitic, etc.), indicate a fat decomposition product like adipocere(grave wax) present on the paper towels::: is another part of this trial that truly baffles me. If it is a substance like adipocere then it is not adipocere.

Either it is adipocere or it is not adipocere. Why did no one test it to see if it was or it was not?

Someone asked me what would it take to get me off the fence and onto the prosecutions side of this trial. If someone would test the substance and confirm that it is indeed adipocere, that would pretty much make all the rest fall into place for me. A simple little test. Especially if that test can confirm it is human adipocere. To me the one and only reason the experts for the prosecution did not confirm that this was human adipocere with a test, is because it is not human adipocere and they know it.

The only other area of concern I have about the white trash bag is that it sat in a dumpster for 18 hours. To me, that potentially contaminates the insect evidence inside the white trash bag, which is of course where they found the one leg.

As always, my entire post is my opinion only.

BBM-No, dont make the leap! In all seriousness, you and others here have been instrumental since day one in holding those of us that think KC should have been executed already to a higher standard. Without your questioning, we'd all pat each other on the backs and call it a day. You make us dig deeper. You're the yin to our yang. Or is it yang to our yin?
Anyway, if we could sway you, that would be lovely, but I would never ask you to do it for the purpose of winning an argument. No one really wins when a two year old is dead anyway, do they?

 

[thedeviledadvocate]

BBM-No, dont make the leap! In all seriousness, you and others here have been instrumental since day one in holding those of us that think KC should have been executed already to a higher standard. Without your questioning, we'd all pat each other on the backs and call it a day. You make us dig deeper. You're the yin to our yang. Or is it yang to our yin?
Anyway, if we could sway you, that would be lovely, but I would never ask you to do it for the purpose of winning an argument. No one really wins when a two year old is dead anyway, do they?

Thank you Just Jayla, and I will continue being the yin to your yang. I will also say, if we could sway you that would be ok, but I would never ask you to do it for the purpose of winning an argument. And I also agree there is no winner when a precious baby like Caylee is dead.

During dr. Logan's testimony today, he was asked by JA about the four fatty acids that Dr. Vass mentioned in his report. Dr. Logan states that those four fatty acids are found in milk products. JA pressed him about the 14 to 18 carbons, and the dr. said they are the same in both milk products and adipocere, adding there are more acids that are the same in both, but there are some that are not the same, this could be determined by further testing. Further testing was never done, so I will stick with my statement prior to hearing dr. Logan's testimony, that the state knew this was not adipocere, and that is why they did not test it further.

As always my entire post is my opinion only.

 

[kaRN]

Here are a variety of photos of the trash from the trunk which was inside the white bag. Click to enlarge.

Tks Hot Dogs. In Toronto every single item on that table can be recycled. Does Orlando not have recycling?

 

[Harmony 2]

Thank you Just Jayla, and I will continue being the yin to your yang. I will also say, if we could sway you that would be ok, but I would never ask you to do it for the purpose of winning an argument. And I also agree there is no winner when a precious baby like Caylee is dead.

During dr. Logan's testimony today, he was asked by JA about the four fatty acids that Dr. Vass mentioned in his report. Dr. Logan states that those four fatty acids are found in milk products. JA pressed him about the 14 to 18 carbons, and the dr. said they are the same in both milk products and adipocere, adding there are more acids that are the same in both, but there are some that are not the same, this could be determined by further testing. Further testing was never done, so I will stick with my statement prior to hearing dr. Logan's testimony, that the state knew this was not adipocere, and that is why they did not test it further.

As always my entire post is my opinion only.

The last statement is incorrect. It was tested and the information is in the LIBS report. Dr Vass testified to it under oath...

timestamps 82:40 first part
3:41 second segment
4:46
5:47- mentions the butyric acid and PMI
http://www.myfoxorlando.com/dpp/news/060611-dr-arpad-vass-testifies

 

[thedeviledadvocate]

The last statement is incorrect. It was tested and the information is in the LIBS report. Dr Vass testified to it under oath...

timestamps 82:40 first part
3:41 second segment
4:46
5:47- mentions the butyric acid and PMI
http://www.myfoxorlando.com/dpp/news/060611-dr-arpad-vass-testifies

Thank you for the links. I think the last statement could be taken to be incorrect, but please allow me a rebuttal to your post

http://www.wftv.com/news/28140590/detail.html

Part 7 beginning at the 3:15 mark dr. vass talks about paper towels.

It reveals that there were a number of fatty acids present on the paper towels. These fatty acids included palmitic, oleic, stearic, and myristic acids. Those particular fatty acids are the make up of adipocere......

I also watched the video in your link about the libs test where he found the traces of butyric acid, which I have always agreed that traces of butyric acid was found.

He took samples from the stained and unstained portions of the paper towels. He never says he took samples from the adipocere like substance. The samples were then dissolved the same way he dissolved the carpet fibers and then ran his analysis. The results of the analysis are in the first paragraph.

I agree that the fatty acids listed above are indeed in the make up of adipocere. I stand by my statement that he did not test the adipocere like substance.

http://www.wftv.com/video/28336069/index.html

part 6 beginning at 3:00 to 5:45 mark Dr. Logan talks about paper towels

oleic, palmitic, stearic, and myristic fatty acids are found in adipocere and in dairy products. These four fatty acids have the same carbon chains in adipocere and dairy products. There are more fatty acids common to both adipocere and dairy products. There are other compounds that are found in dairy products that are not found in adipocere that can be determined by chemical analysis, ( I won't say dr. Vass is not a chemist), if these other compounds are tested for.

Based on the fact that Dr. Vass tested stained and unstained portions of the paper towels, and does not say he tested the fatty acid substance like adipocere, and Dr. Logan testifies that these four fatty acids mentioned by JA are all in dairy products, I will have to maintain my belief that the substance on the paper towels was not adipocere.

 

[AZlawyer]

No one is disagreeing that the paper towels were, in fact, tested and contained the combination of fatty acids expected in adipocere, correct? I'm really tired so I know I might not be understanding the controversy here.

http://www.wesh.com/download/2009/0619/19801995.pdf p. 7; p. 14 (Fig. 6).

 

[Stargazer7]

All other pertinent evidence aside, I can't wrap my mind around the idea of Casey abandoning her car due to the smell of old garbage. No way, no how. It's just common sense to me that she left her car behind because the smell of death was overwhelming and there was nothing she could do to get rid of it.

 

[websurfer]

Trash bag in trunk [ next to a dumpster]I find that very odd...
that she has the car[ smart ha?]
she left car unlocked, Amy's resume, and other things that if the car did not stink...somebody may have taken it..but guess what?
Not even a homeless person or anybody stole the smelly car..not surprised are you?
Think about it..
a car next to a dumpster[ to try and blame dumpster for smell]

 

[websurfer]

All other pertinent evidence aside, I can't wrap my mind around the idea of Casey abandoning her car due to the smell of old garbage. No way, no how. It's just common sense to me that she left her car behind because the smell of death was overwhelming and there was nothing she could do to get rid of it.

I agree with you,the things you write are true.Why get your boyfriend to bring you gas and then leave the car?She had to know it would be towed and found eventually I mean unlike her friends, it was real.

 

[Hot Dogs]

she left car unlocked

She did?

 

[Hot Dogs]

There is testimony and cross examination going on right now, and also previously, concerning the trash found in the trunk.

There is an overriding assumption that the trash found must somehow in and of itself explain the trunk odors and compounds found in analysis. But nobody has speculated that there could have been other trash carried in the trunk prior to the car being found at AMSCOT. IOW, Casey could have carried some really nasty rotting food trash previously but then eventually threw it out. The currently found trash bag may not be the only possible source for odors and stains.

 

[DeadCat]

Casey could have carried some really nasty rotting food trash previously but then eventually threw it out. The currently found trash bag may not be the only possible source for odors and stains.

An interesting thought, but why wouldn't she have also thrown out the remaining bag when she threw out the hypothetically super stinky one?

 

[Hot Dogs]

Sequential, not simultaneous.

The two bags are not in the trunk at the same time.

 

[txsvicki]

I'm worried that some of the food wrappers that the jury were looking at today could have absorbed some of the decomp smell that has absorbed into the car and trunk. Does anyone think that possible or that they would be able to smell anything and think it's trash or from the invidual food wrappers instead of decomp?

 

[DeadCat]

Sorry if this has already been mentioned, but I don't have time to catch up on this thread. Had a weird thought today...(keep getting random thoughts about this case/trial)

Anyway, I'd always assumed that the paper towels were put in the trash bag after trying to clean up the decomp spills in the trunk. But, then I also thought the trash bag was put in the trunk much later to be used as a decoy for the smell. The maggots loved those paper towels, right? Made me wonder about the steps involved and the order of the steps:
1) put trash in trunk
2) clean a bit with towels
3) put towels in bag

Could have happened this way, but it also could have been:
1) Cleaned up non-trunk area at TL's place
2) Put clean up towels in trash at TL's place
3) Later, put trash bag in car....