The Wine Cellar

[OliviaG1996]

As I said in my previous post AK, I think they wanted to establish themselves as victims before revealing the body. I've always found the circumstances of John finding her to be odd. Him and Fleet were in the train room doing their search, Fleet is distracted and John is in the WC. Did he do a thorough search of the other rooms in between? No, he bypasses them and heads straight for that door. So if we assume RDI, then we know that John wanted the body found at that moment. Why wouldn't he have directed Fleet to start the search at the other end of the basement? I think it is evident that he did not want a witness when he opened the WC door. Why? Perhaps he didn't trust his acting skills? Or perhaps JBs body was not where he wanted it to be? Perhaps, knowing that they'd done a half *advertiser censored* job with the wrist ligatures, he wanted to fein the attempt to remove them, again distorting evidence. It is odd that upon finding here body he attempts to remove the loose wrist bindings but does nothing about the tight ligature around her neck isn't it? So many odd decisions made by John that day.

BBM: You've raised a great point. I've never thought of that before. Perhaps he didn't want to ruin what he wanted LE to believe was the true cause of her death.

 

[BBB167893]

I realize that there are some people who say that they would have searched their house high and low if they woke up to find a ransom note and their child missing, but I think that most people would not do this. There’s a ransom note.

That might be what they were counting on.

So, I think the body was hidden well enough to prevent the parents from finding it, but not well enough to stop the police from finding it. Who could guess how inept they would be (they didn’t even notice the broken window in the basement!!!)?

Ah, but if there's a ransom note, WHY would the cops be looking for her?

If RDI, the body presented a massive problem for the Ramseys. They either needed to dispose of it or report it. Hiding it, calling the police and saying that it is not in the house – it’s been kidnapped! – and taking no steps to direct them towards or encouraging them to search the house seems to be the opposite of wanting them to find it.

I'm not so sure they did want the police to find it. Up to now, I've always thought that JR "finding" her was Plan B. What if it wasn't?

 

[Anti-K]

As I said in my previous post AK, I think they wanted to establish themselves as victims before revealing the body. I've always found the circumstances of John finding her to be odd. Him and Fleet were in the train room doing their search, Fleet is distracted and John is in the WC. Did he do a thorough search of the other rooms in between? No, he bypasses them and heads straight for that door. So if we assume RDI, then we know that John wanted the body found at that moment. Why wouldn't he have directed Fleet to start the search at the other end of the basement? I think it is evident that he did not want a witness when he opened the WC door. Why? Perhaps he didn't trust his acting skills? Or perhaps JBs body was not where he wanted it to be? Perhaps, knowing that they'd done a half *advertiser censored* job with the wrist ligatures, he wanted to fein the attempt to remove them, again distorting evidence. It is odd that upon finding here body he attempts to remove the loose wrist bindings but does nothing about the tight ligature around her neck isn't it? So many odd decisions made by John that day.


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This is just another one of those areas that doesn’t seem to make sense. If they had wanted the police to find the body they could have simply left the wc door wide open, or left the body outside of the wc, where the assault asphyxiation occurred, etc. The ransom note gave the Ramseys an excuse for not looking in the basement, or anywhere.

If you look at things theory-first then you have to make some sort of sense out of this, but if you look at it evidence-first you quickly see that it makes no sense. The Ramseys did absolutely nothing to “encourage” or “aid” the police to find the body. And, they hid it.
.

I think a lot about Mr Ramsey is odd.

A possible explanation for trying to unite the wrists but leaving the garrote: the arms were raised above the head making them and the ligature clear and obvious. After removing the tape, Ramsey goes to the wrists. The garrote is not noticed.
...

AK

 

[Anti-K]

That might be what they were counting on.



Ah, but if there's a ransom note, WHY would the cops be looking for her?



I'm not so sure they did want the police to find it. Up to now, I've always thought that JR "finding" her was Plan B. What if it wasn't?

Why would the cops be looking for her? Because she was kidnapped!

But, I don’t think anyone is saying that the police would have been looking for her in the house. We are saying that they should have searched the house because a crime occurred there (maybe someone is still in the house!) and that during that search the body would have been discovered.

As an aside, I think that the “hinky” ransom note should have encouraged the police to search the house.
...

AK

 

[andreww]

A possible explanation for trying to unite the wrists but leaving the garrote: the arms were raised above the head making them and the ligature clear and obvious. After removing the tape, Ramsey goes to the wrists. The garrote is not noticed.
...

AK

That is a little beyond believable AK. If IDI, John's obvious first thoughts would be "Is she alive?". Removing the tape from her mouth would be logical, but the cord wrapped round her neck was just so obvious. Even if he hadn't noticed the neck ligature, removing loosely tied cord around her wrists would make absolutely no impact on any possible life saving effort, so why waste precious time trying to remove them?



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[andreww]

That might be what they were counting on.



Ah, but if there's a ransom note, WHY would the cops be looking for her?



I'm not so sure they did want the police to find it. Up to now, I've always thought that JR "finding" her was Plan B. What if it wasn't?

Dave, I think if you look at it logically, finding the body is really the only viable option after the police were called. It would have been far too risky to try and move the body with the high police presence that would have been in the area. If they were going to move it, it would have been before the 911 call.


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[CorallaroC]

This is just another one of those areas that doesn’t seem to make sense. If they had wanted the police to find the body they could have simply left the wc door wide open, or left the body outside of the wc, where the assault asphyxiation occurred, etc. The ransom note gave the Ramseys an excuse for not looking in the basement, or anywhere.

If you look at things theory-first then you have to make some sort of sense out of this, but if you look at it evidence-first you quickly see that it makes no sense. The Ramseys did absolutely nothing to “encourage” or “aid” the police to find the body. And, they hid it.
.

I think a lot about Mr Ramsey is odd.

A possible explanation for trying to unite the wrists but leaving the garrote: the arms were raised above the head making them and the ligature clear and obvious. After removing the tape, Ramsey goes to the wrists. The garrote is not noticed.
...

AK

Anti K hi, thanks for your post. If I understand you correctly, then I applaud you for following Evidence and Logic this post. Whereas many of your previous posts, I had to stretch my imagination to the limits and could not even add my THANKS to your post. I have no hope that your personal opinions have changed about the case and its limited evidence, but Im glad to read that you have at least a FEW personal opinions that I can at least resonate with. This case is so mind-boggling! Tho we have lots of OLD information that seems overwhelming, what do we really have at this late date? Your opinion is clearly different than mine, but I'm sometimes glad to hear your opinion about FACTS and EVIDENCE eventho it challenges my own ideas, Have a good day ANTI-K

 

[BBB167893]

Why would the cops be looking for her? Because she was kidnapped!

I MEANT in the house.

But, I don’t think anyone is saying that the police would have been looking for her in the house. We are saying that they should have searched the house because a crime occurred there (maybe someone is still in the house!) and that during that search the body would have been discovered.

As an aside, I think that the “hinky” ransom note should have encouraged the police to search the house.

Maybe it should have, but it didn't.

 

[UKGuy]

Why would the cops be looking for her? Because she was kidnapped!

But, I don’t think anyone is saying that the police would have been looking for her in the house. We are saying that they should have searched the house because a crime occurred there (maybe someone is still in the house!) and that during that search the body would have been discovered.

As an aside, I think that the “hinky” ransom note should have encouraged the police to search the house.
...

AK

Anti-K,

Why would the cops be looking for her? Because she was kidnapped!

The definition of stupid, OK, I'll pass on that one. Looking for who, OK, well I guess they did a house search looking for, guess who, JonBenet!

mmm, so you accept she was kidnapped, i.e. the main proposal in the ransom note, and thrust of the 911 call, presumably you are a Ramsey devotee?


.

 

[andreww]

Yes cops should have searched the house instead of sending John and Fleet to do it. Still shaking my head on that one.


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[Aynia]

Yes cops should have searched the house instead of sending John and Fleet to do it. Still shaking my head on that one.


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Well, I think they did, they just didn't entered the wine cellar (big mistake IMHO ) and LH just asked John and Fleet to search to keep John occupied. Just MOO

 

[CorallaroC]

Well, the main reason Im going to comment on recent posts is that most of us can remember back when the story first broke. BEFORE all the media attention about JBR's pageants, before word of wealthy parents, before anything about the BPD or their (R's) law firm or Hunter's overseement (is that even a word? lol) My point is NO! we did not know details then. And I'm sure that many of us were perplexed by seeing no reports of the parents cowering behind their 911-telephone begging cops to come search their house for an intruder. No hollywood-style recount of parents holding up in a small corner of the house with a gun or some weapon to help defend. Ransome Note or not, I have never been able to imagine PARENTS! or any homeowners in a situation like that who would not at the very LEAST have jumped in their car (with their son) and driven to somewhere safe. L.A. detective saying she mentally counted her bullets at such a "late point in time" IMO does not impress me. Lengthy reports of parents searching the house, making sure they son was safe, first responders searching the house with gun in hand, do not exist as far as I know of.

Bottom line, I just know my first impression of the case was that is was an attack by a parent - eventhough that was many years before most people would even "think of such a thing." I felt it in my intuition, and all it was was my own intuition.

Here we are all these years later, I have followed this case as best I can, best I can stomach at times. Best not to ask me how I feel now..... I just keep following the case and hope that good solid reliable info will come forth to reveal the TRUTH what happened to JBR, this child.

 

[singularity]

STILL,nothing explains how come FW didn't see anything and JR saw her instantly.
this is beyond my understanding,always was,always will be.IT STINKS.

I always thought this incident was a key piece of the puzzle and if it had received more attention back then, everything else might have fell into place.

Back in the late 90s/early 00s when I was very interested in this case I really wanted to have a look in that house. Seeing pictures of it or the brief walk through on documentaries doesn't do it justice. I always wondered if it would be possible to carry a child from any other area of the house(including from outside) and bring them to the basement yet do it undetected with a houseful of people. I assume it's possible considering how so many people who've been there have commented on its unique layout.