Theories On What Happened to Caylee Part #2

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I still go with accidental drowning in the A's pool on the 16th/17th when KC came home to steal from her parents while both were at work. I think upon discovery she left the baby in the playhouse to drive around and figure things out (we've already seen this behavior from CA the night she found KC). Forensics say it only takes an hour for enough trace decomp to alert the dogs. She came back, packaged the body, and put it in the trunk. It never crossed her mind again until the close call with the gas cans and GA-she would have quickly disposed of the body on, or just after the 24th. My theory allows that the chloroform was a naturally occuring by-product of decomp+pool chemical (chloroform occurs in decomp anyway and I think was magnified by the pool)-this would depend heavily on when, and in what context, the chloroform searches were made on the computer. I still think a lot of the leaked computer recovery from LE were items searched after the investigation began.
 
ok.. my thoughts on this case at times get jumbled .. there is so much info out and about on the web and at times Its hard to remember what is really in the evidence and what is speculated..
I feel that casey died from the cloroform, I go back and forth in my head as to if it was on purpose or if KC was just trying to quiet her put her to sleep for a bit and it went to far and she expired.
I think she then had her in the trunk for a day or so went to the house.. backed into the garage.. took the poor child into the back yard and put her down on the dirt.. or mabe in the sand box, or both (this would explain the dogs hitting in the spots in the yard) to think how she was going to wrap her up to dispose of the body.. I think she got trash bags and other things from the house to wrap the body in.. put her back in the trunk.. then proceeded to try to find the best place to dispose of body..

I donno.. there are so many differnt places she could have taken the sweet little angel.. the whole thing makes me ill..

I personally think she disposed of her in the water somewhere.

shakes head.. I just dont understand how anyone could do this then go out and party with friends.. etc..

I think her nightmares were more about being found out then what she actually did to caylee. ...
 
Wow... were we listening to the same interview lol? I'm surprised to say the least that THIS is what you took away from it. To begin w in her response ("If I really wanted to just get rid of her...") she had JUST been asked by LE if she'd accepted MONEY for Caylee--so "just" is being used synonymously w "simply," meaning if being free of Caylee had been her purpose or intention (as was being suggested), she needn't have SOLD--she could have "simply" (as confirmed by CA) "foisted" those responsibilities entirely upon her parents. Neither KC nor CA are especially articulate, these may not be the words we would have chosen but there's nothing more to it. There's been no great mystery, no doubt, the issue of custody was raised, the offer made by CA nor that it was, in fact an option--leaving KC, in other words, w no motivation to 'sell' or rid herself of Caylee by any other means SIMPLY to be freed of obligation.

What *I* have consistently taken away from both this interview w LE, as well as the one w LA, is the overwhelming guilt KC expresses in her admissions of being an "unfit" mom afterall, and the sobering awareness that she has been enabled all her life by her mother and now wishes she would have been taught some responsibility a long time ago. What *I* take away from both interviews is the undeniable fear KC expresses over and over that her "mother will never forgive her," and that "maybe her mother was right, she IS an unfit mother." None of which strikes me as the words of a coldblooded murderer. If this were the case and it were "just" LE whom KC was worried about she would have surely feigned an accident scenario by now to save herself! No it is her mother she fears--and she would rather face life or even death than admit that all of her mother's criticism of her as an irresponsible mother was true. JMO

kiki, if she really is that scared of her mother, if they argued on the 15th and it became physical, and if caylee had been questioned by ca on the way home from mt dora, why would it not be plausable, that kc was punishing ca and Caylee ? caylee for spilling the beans and mom for not letting her get away with it again ? ( just asking because you seem to be knowlegable about the inner workings of the mind, I've read alot of your posts and I like to get that perspective also ) thanks
 
Wow... were we listening to the same interview lol? I'm surprised to say the least that THIS is what you took away from it. To begin w in her response ("If I really wanted to just get rid of her...") she had JUST been asked by LE if she'd accepted MONEY for Caylee--so "just" is being used synonymously w "simply," meaning if being free of Caylee had been her purpose or intention (as was being suggested), she needn't have SOLD--she could have "simply" (as confirmed by CA) "foisted" those responsibilities entirely upon her parents. Neither KC nor CA are especially articulate, these may not be the words we would have chosen but there's nothing more to it. There's been no great mystery, no doubt, the issue of custody was raised, the offer made by CA nor that it was, in fact an option--leaving KC, in other words, w no motivation to 'sell' or rid herself of Caylee by any other means SIMPLY to be freed of obligation.

What *I* have consistently taken away from both this interview w LE, as well as the one w LA, is the overwhelming guilt KC expresses in her admissions of being an "unfit" mom afterall, and the sobering awareness that she has been enabled all her life by her mother and now wishes she would have been taught some responsibility a long time ago. What *I* take away from both interviews is the undeniable fear KC expresses over and over that her "mother will never forgive her," and that "maybe her mother was right, she IS an unfit mother." None of which strikes me as the words of a coldblooded murderer. If this were the case and it were "just" LE whom KC was worried about she would have surely feigned an accident scenario by now to save herself! No it is her mother she fears--and she would rather face life or even death than admit that all of her mother's criticism of her as an irresponsible mother was true. JMO

Lol Kiki. You have very forcefully put forth the same arguement I was trying to make regarding the use of the word "just"..."only" = "simply" from my standpoint as well. :rolleyes:
 
kiki, if she really is that scared of her mother, if they argued on the 15th and it became physical, and if caylee had been questioned by ca on the way home from mt dora, why would it not be plausable, that kc was punishing ca and Caylee ? caylee for spilling the beans and mom for not letting her get away with it again ? ( just asking because you seem to be knowlegable about the inner workings of the mind, I've read alot of your posts and I like to get that perspective also ) thanks

Even if Caylee was learning to talk more, I guess I'm still unclear what exactly it is that Caylee could have verbalized to CA that was so threatening it could provoke KC to murder? Spilling the beans about what? (Caylee knew nothing of money, or banking, or grandparent's retirement fund eg.) My take on it is this. For all CA's incessant badgering, berading, belittling etc when it came to KC at the end of the day CA had always been essentially unwilling to follow thru w any consequences. I've no problems whatsoever believing the reports of CA w her hands around KC's neck (per her bro Rick), choking her in her frustration because her relentless "all talk, no action," countless idle threats, chances and warnings thru all the years, had only increased KC's licentiousness and gotten CA NOWHERE. I've no problems at all believing the confrontation Father's Day between the two becoming heated, or seeing CA finally threaten to kick KC out (notice tho according to TL and pings, KC in fact slept at Hopespring that night, was still there in the am, indeed was back that afternoon). It is completely believable that once CA caught KC stealing from GP's and cut off KC's intended source of funding for PR trip, that this no doubt infuriated KC. I get that--but what was gained by killing her daughter since she still didn't go to PR? My mother's (and grandmother's) intuition is telling me this. Many people--particularly those who are conflicted--operate on more than one level, so I think if there was resentment it did not play into Caylee's death on any conscious level. In the case of a two year-old in a home w an inadequately childproofed pool, neglect, inattentiveness and poor supervision are more than capable of causing a toddler's death. The question is whether this rose to the level of culpable negligence--"gross and flagrant" failure to use "ordinary care." And if KC isn't talking or admitting to any knowledge of Caylee's death, this will be a difficult burden for the State to prove. They don't even know the cause, much less manner, of Caylee's death. In all honesty, I think CA and GA bear tremendous guilt too, knowing as both homeowners and grandparents, they did not childproof or safeguard their pool w the recommended barriers, safety alarms, and pool fencing to specification. A gate simply isn't enough, and in FL, where many have these backyard killers and these precautions are well known, ALL of the above should be standard procedure--in case ANY child should wander into a pool owner's yard but particularly in a home w a toddler--which IMO would itself constitute "ordinary care." This, in my estimation, is the reason why A's keep up efforts to collude, protect, and deny KC's responsibility. Because in a tragic but very real sense, they may realize they share culpability. JMO
 
Lol Kiki. You have very forcefully put forth the same arguement I was trying to make regarding the use of the word "just"..."only" = "simply" from my standpoint as well. :rolleyes:

I wish we could agree lol, but actually I don't believe I'm making the same argument at all... *I* was saying that KC's intent, what she meant or the point she was making in defense of the suggestion she might have "sold" her child, was that leaving Caylee w her mother would have been a much simpler solution or alternative to this--if she had wanted her freedom--and would have accomplished that end. But if I understand correctly, you on the other hand were instead suggesting that the real motive being concealed by KC, which would not have been accomplished by this, was exacting revenge--w which I disagree (woa now I'm really starting to get confused lol!) JMO
 
Even if Caylee was learning to talk more, I guess I'm still unclear what exactly it is that Caylee could have verbalized to CA that was so threatening it could provoke KC to murder? Spilling the beans about what? (Caylee knew nothing of money, or banking, or grandparent's retirement fund eg.) My take on it is this. For all CA's incessant badgering, berading, belittling etc when it came to KC at the end of the day CA had always been essentially unwilling to follow thru w any consequences. I've no problems whatsoever believing the reports of CA w her hands around KC's neck (per her bro Rick), choking her in her frustration because her relentless "all talk, no action," countless idle threats, chances and warnings thru all the years, had only increased KC's licentiousness and gotten CA NOWHERE. I've no problems at all believing the confrontation Father's Day between the two becoming heated, or seeing CA finally threaten to kick KC out (notice tho according to TL and pings, KC in fact slept at Hopespring that night, was still there in the am, indeed was back that afternoon). It is completely believable that once CA caught KC stealing from GP's and cut off KC's intended source of funding for PR trip, that this no doubt infuriated KC. I get that--but what was gained by killing her daughter since she still didn't go to PR? My mother's (and grandmother's) intuition is telling me this. Many people--particularly those who are conflicted--operate on more than one level, so I think if there was resentment it did not play into Caylee's death on any conscious level. In the case of a two year-old in a home w an inadequately childproofed pool, neglect, inattentiveness and poor supervision are more than capable of causing a toddler's death. The question is whether this rose to the level of culpable negligence--"gross and flagrant" failure to use "ordinary care." And if KC isn't talking or admitting to any knowledge of Caylee's death, this will be a difficult burden for the State to prove. They don't even know the cause, much less manner, of Caylee's death. In all honesty, I think CA and GA bear tremendous guilt too, knowing as both homeowners and grandparents, they did not childproof or safeguard their pool w the recommended barriers, safety alarms, and pool fencing to specification. A gate simply isn't enough, and in FL, where many have these backyard killers and these precautions are well known, ALL of the above should be standard procedure--in case ANY child should wander into a pool owner's yard but particularly in a home w a toddler--which IMO would itself constitute "ordinary care." This, in my estimation, is the reason why A's keep up efforts to collude, protect, and deny KC's responsibility. Because in a tragic but very real sense, they may realize they share culpability. JMO

I think that the most important information that caylee had was that kc didnt work and caylee didnt go to a babysitters house. I also think that ca new about the money from her parents account way before the 15th of june, I think she didnt know that kc was not working though. and that is what caused this house of cards to tumble. I think the guilt and shame that ca bears is because she feels she caused her to do this when she confronted her about the job. Even when the police took kc to universal she still wouldnt admit that she didnt have a job, why ?
 
I wish we could agree lol, but actually I don't believe I'm making the same argument at all... *I* was saying that KC's intent, what she meant or the point she was making in defense of the suggestion she might have "sold" her child, was that leaving Caylee w her mother would have been a much simpler solution or alternative to this--if she had wanted her freedom--and would have accomplished that end. But if I understand correctly, you on the other hand were instead suggesting that the real motive being concealed by KC, which would not have been accomplished by this, was exacting revenge--w which I disagree (woa now I'm really starting to get confused lol!) JMO

lol, kiki we agree to disagree.
 
KC needed her mother(a fact I'm sure she resented). She had no HS diploma, no job skills, and obviously wasn't interested in trying to better her future by going to classes(she could have taken them online I'm sure). She knows it's expensive to live today-that's why she had to steal so often from everyone she could. Since she had no ambition to improve her future with a career, she made trolling for men, who might take take care of her like Mommy has for 22 years, her career!
True she liked to party, but the ultimate goal was to find a man who could get her out of her parents house so she could live her life the was she wanted to, not the way Cindy told her to.
I think she was getting to the point where she knew finding a man to rescue her from her predicament might not happen. She loved crime progams-they probably gave her alot of ideas and information. I'm wondering if the Chloroform searches weren't for another possible scenario where she got rid of the parents and then got the house. She could move Amy in and have a built in babysitter. Amy sure thought she was moving in-she put in change of address cards.
Then KC gets with AL, maybe,this time it will work out, she thinks. So she tells Amy the plans are off, mother is keeping the house. Now, she's got her eggs all in one basket-the plan is for AL to rescue her. Damn, he doesn't Caylee around. Damn it Mom is getting fed up with me and my lies and the stealing.
Father's Day, June 15th-Huge fight, Mom found out I stole my grandparents retirement money. She so mad she's throwing me out. She's so mad she grabbed me around the throat! OMG-what do I do now? I can't stay here any more, and can't go to Tony's with Caylee. Think KC, there has to be a way. Caylee's probably crying-long day at ALF and now saw a very angry,loud and violent argument. Caylee's probably scared.
This is when the chloroform is used. The chloroform that was probably meant for the parents. Accidental or pre-meditated, I don't know. I lean more toward pre-meditated. If it was an accident, and she only wanted Caylee to calm down and sleep-I don't think she could have been enjoying herself with AL at Blockbuster, with Caylee, probably, in the trunk.
Could be wrong? I hope this trial isn't postponed again. I want it to be over!!:furious:
 
I thought the fight was about the grandparents too, but kc supposedly stole the grandparents money using the routing number from a check they gave kc for her b'day, her b'day was 3/19. ca had to already know about the money. But kc told ca that she had taken the money to pay for an event at universal and would replace it as soon as universal paid her back. I think the fight had to be about not having a job to be able to pay the money back.
 
KC needed her mother(a fact I'm sure she resented). She had no HS diploma, no job skills, and obviously wasn't interested in trying to better her future by going to classes(she could have taken them online I'm sure). She knows it's expensive to live today-that's why she had to steal so often from everyone she could. Since she had no ambition to improve her future with a career, she made trolling for men, who might take take care of her like Mommy has for 22 years, her career!
True she liked to party, but the ultimate goal was to find a man who could get her out of her parents house so she could live her life the was she wanted to, not the way Cindy told her to.

(respectfully snipped)

ITA w "snipped." IMO this is an excellent analysis of her entitlement--ie pursuit and scheming involving men, self-centeredness, shortsightedness, and even the resentment KC felt--but I feel it was directed at CA, not Caylee. JMO
 
I think that the most important information that caylee had was that kc didnt work and caylee didnt go to a babysitters house. I also think that ca new about the money from her parents account way before the 15th of june, I think she didnt know that kc was not working though. and that is what caused this house of cards to tumble. I think the guilt and shame that ca bears is because she feels she caused her to do this when she confronted her about the job. Even when the police took kc to universal she still wouldnt admit that she didnt have a job, why ?

I just don't believe Caylee's possible babbling about what she did that day, or ability to verbalize whether she went to the nanny's or not, could have been sufficient motivation for KC to kill her (not that there is one, but you KWIM). Nor do I believe merely an argument alone--however volatile--would cause CA guilt or to feel she bore responsibility. JMO
 
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