Theories On What Happened to Caylee Part #8

[noneareworthy]

I think she toyed with the idea of getting rid of Caylee...but her motivating factor was more than just freedom from motherhood (she could've had that at the drop of a hat--Cindy was already contemplating custody)---it was getting back at the parents. Maybe she plotted a faked kidnapping in order to raise funds...and it went wrong while testing it out (duct tape and choloform don't mix well on a 2=year old). Or in her anger, went off and hit/pushed and caused the death. Or she drugged her and left her somewhere to go with Tony and that did it. I think she didn't care about the risk of whatever it was that she did to the child making it a premeditated act. I think in her fear of getting caught she responded by partying it up and living the beautiful life for as long as she could. Her behavior grew more reckless. I wish the prosecution didn't put forth the duct tape as the choice of murder weapon because I'm still not convinced it was used to keep the body fluids from leaking all over the place. I think the defense should've stuck to the nanny did it....makes more sense than the accidental drowning that George the Molester covered up.

 

[manorlady]

I think Casey might have drowned Caylee deliberately on the 16th, although I can't then understand the need for duct tape. I keep remembering a moment in Cindy Anthony's testimony where she said that she and Caylee were enjoying the pool the evening of June 15, and Casey came home and wanted to get in with them, but Cindy told her no - that Caylee had had enough and it was time to get her ready for bed. I thought at the time "uh oh, classic sibling rivalry incident". I also think the nanny story came to be because Casey resented being reduced to being Princess Caylee's Nanny which she desperately wanted not to be. If Cindy had a history of playing with Caylee and then handing her back to her mother Casey with an admonition that playtime was over and duty was calling, that's plenty of motive and could be the trigger.

Or Casey could just have decided that somebody owed her a pool dip, so she took one the next day, and then didn't bother to put up the ladder because she knew she was "eliminating the child" next so that particular caution was no longer needed.

 

[sappysoul]

I have a question about the duct tape. I know this isn't likely the right thread to ask it but I just cannot find one that would be. Was the duct tape wrapped around Caylee's skull or was it just around the facial area?

 

[GeekyGirl]

***I'll apologize in advance because this is going to be a long one, but I'm hoping some of you who have theories can answer some of my questions.***

Every time I think I have a grasp on what happened, something comes along to change my mind. The inconsistencies in this case are just mind boggling, even taking into account that Casey and the rest of the family are all CCFCP. The following are what the prosecution has presented as far as theories of her death.

1. The chloroform theory (with or without duct tape)
Pros:
-The Internet searches
-Casey wanting to sedate Caylee so she could go party
-Testimony that high levels of chloroform were in the trunk
Cons:
-No evidence that she ever made chloroform
-It's a short acting sedative, 15 minutes or so, so not useful for KC's needs
-If the death occurred on the night of the 15th, or during the day on the 16th why the need to sedate her?
-If it was intended to kill her, where'd she do it?
+If in the car, when? At night? In broad daylight?
+In the house? Where was the chloroform stored?
-If it was intended to kill her, and stage an accident, didn't she think it would be detected? KC's no genius, but even laypeople these days know about autopsies... The chick did supposedly watch CSI a lot.
-If it was intended to kill her, shows major preplanning and might show compassion towards Caylee (wanting a quick painless death) that's contradicted by a lot of what happened after she died.


My conclusion: A weak case for the use of chloroform, can't rule it out, but I wouldn't say it's likely.

2. Duct tape only
Pros:
-Easy to obtain, KC had access to it
-Effective, doesn't require much sophistication of thought or preplanning
-Found in a position that suggests it was applied in a manner that would cause death if applied while Caylee were alive
-Suggested link to a heart shape sticker similar to the ones KC had
Cons:
-Unable to prove it was applied before death
-Could be argued it was used to stage kidnapping postmortem
-Is a horrific way to kill someone who is awake. Would be eye to eye with the victim, who would be panicked and struggling.
-where did it occur? At home? Was the duct tape in the room with KC? Why not just use a pillow if suffocation is the purpose? No eye to eye contact with the victim, probably quicker, just as quiet.
-where did it occur? The car? When? At night? In broad daylight? Both are extremely risky.
- could argue that it was done postmortem. Covering the face of the dead can be a way of dehumanizing them to allow for easier acceptance of their disposal for the killer.

My conclusion: Again, not a slam dunk to me, even trying to consider KC's illogical mindset.

I realize that some of the evidence might be conflicting because KC herself was conflicted (I.e. Body in trash bags and disposed of casually, but the sticker being placed and comforting items left at the body site) but IMO I just haven't seen the SA make a compelling case that proves that either of these were how Caylee died. My opinion only of course, and maybe I'm missing something.

 

[SarahEcho]

I think this thread is a fairly good preview of what will go on in the jury room during deliberations. There are a lot of sensible people here that are well informed and there still is not a general consensus as to what happened.

 

[kpalma715]

I was here thinking of possible ways Caylee died. It really bugs me, that we dont know and will never know how she actually died. Here is another theory I can up with, please correct me on anything I write, if it sounds off.

Casey saw RC myspace post about chloloform and how to make it. She makes it. She puts it in the trunk and thinks maybe one day I should try this on Caylee to put her to sleep so I can go out.

I am thinking on the night of the 15th, after the fight with Cindy, ICA was headed to Tone house with screaming Caylee in the car seat wanting her Grandma. ICA pulls over, throws Caylee in the trunk, puts some choloform that was in the trunk by her nose, Caylee passes out. Casey goes to Tone house, stays the night. Next day drives home, from her nice night with Tone, not even thinking about poor little Caylee in the trunk. Goes home, goes on myspace, texts, takes a shower. Finally she remembers Caylee, opens the trunk finds poor deceased Caylee in the trunk of the car. She has been since the night before. The heat of the car causes her to decompose a little faster than usual. As she lifts up Caylee fluid starts to pour from her nose and mouth. ICA freaks out, starts calling her Mom and Dad to make sure they are not coming home. Carries her body to the yard to bury her. Asks the neighbor for a shovel, when she possibly attemps to dig a grave, gets to lazy and feels that maybe to much work for her. Brings her back to the garage and puts her in the trunk. The fluid is starting to come out more everytime she moves her, so she puts duct tape around her nose & mouth to stop it, not realizing the fluid will still come out from other parts of the body. She wraps a blanket around her puts her in the garbage and the hamper bag. She also puts in her book and some stuff that was in the trunk. Drives around with her there for about a day or two cause she has no idea where to put the body and finally disposes of her. Since the body was in the trunk for that 2 days, naturally the fluid became 100 times worst and stained the trunk.

I know the State says the duct tape was the murder weapon, but what supports that theory. From what I remember, it was said that the duct tape was put on before or right after death. Also, I did research and a childs body decomposes a lot faster than an adult from what I read online.

What does anyone think of this? I do not mind with anyone disagreeing, these are just thoughts that passed through my head at the moment that may change in a hour.

 

[TexasLori]

I was here thinking of possible ways Caylee died. It really bugs me, that we dont know and will never know how she actually died. Here is another theory I can up with, please correct me on anything I write, if it sounds off.

Casey saw RC myspace post about chloloform and how to make it. She makes it. She puts it in the trunk and thinks maybe one day I should try this on Caylee to put her to sleep so I can go out.

I am thinking on the night of the 15th, after the fight with Cindy, ICA was headed to Tone house with screaming Caylee in the car seat wanting her Grandma. ICA pulls over, throws Caylee in the trunk, puts some choloform that was in the trunk by her nose, Caylee passes out. Casey goes to Tone house, stays the night. Next day drives home, from her nice night with Tone, not even thinking about poor little Caylee in the trunk. Goes home, goes on myspace, texts, takes a shower. Finally she remembers Caylee, opens the trunk finds poor deceased Caylee in the trunk of the car. She has been since the night before. The heat of the car causes her to decompose a little faster than usual. As she lifts up Caylee fluid starts to pour from her nose and mouth. ICA freaks out, starts calling her Mom and Dad to make sure they are not coming home. Carries her body to the yard to bury her. Asks the neighbor for a shovel, when she possibly attemps to dig a grave, gets to lazy and feels that maybe to much work for her. Brings her back to the garage and puts her in the trunk. The fluid is starting to come out more everytime she moves her, so she puts duct tape around her nose & mouth to stop it, not realizing the fluid will still come out from other parts of the body. She wraps a blanket around her puts her in the garbage and the hamper bag. She also puts in her book and some stuff that was in the trunk. Drives around with her there for about a day or two cause she has no idea where to put the body and finally disposes of her. Since the body was in the trunk for that 2 days, naturally the fluid became 100 times worst and stained the trunk.

I know the State says the duct tape was the murder weapon, but what supports that theory. From what I remember, it was said that the duct tape was put on before or right after death. Also, I did research and a childs body decomposes a lot faster than an adult from what I read online.

What does anyone think of this? I do not mind with anyone disagreeing, these are just thoughts that passed through my head at the moment that may change in a hour.

I think your scenario probably comes very close on many points. I an envision this happening. However, I still think there was more premeditation than you leave room for. Someone said on one of the threads (sorry I cannot give proper credit - cannot remember who) that she possible planned a "swimming accident" with her trying in vain to revive Caylee, hence the searches for info on injuries sustained during CPR. I cannot rule that out either.

A lot of people having her starting to bury Caylee in the backyard and changing her mind when she sees how much work it will be. I think if she planned to do this when she borrowed the shovel, the reason she ditched the effort is more likely that she realized how noticeable a makeshift grave would be to her parents.

There are so many good theories from people here who have taken a lot of time to sift through the details. I think we will never know the truth for certain, but I think WSers have come the closest we will ever have to the truth.

 

[katydid23]

***I'll apologize in advance because this is going to be a long one, but I'm hoping some of you who have theories can answer some of my questions.***

Every time I think I have a grasp on what happened, something comes along to change my mind. The inconsistencies in this case are just mind boggling, even taking into account that Casey and the rest of the family are all CCFCP. The following are what the prosecution has presented as far as theories of her death.

1. The chloroform theory (with or without duct tape)
Pros:
-The Internet searches
-Casey wanting to sedate Caylee so she could go party
-Testimony that high levels of chloroform were in the trunk
Cons:
-No evidence that she ever made chloroform
-It's a short acting sedative, 15 minutes or so, so not useful for KC's needs
-If the death occurred on the night of the 15th, or during the day on the 16th why the need to sedate her?
-If it was intended to kill her, where'd she do it?
+If in the car, when? At night? In broad daylight?
+In the house? Where was the chloroform stored?
-If it was intended to kill her, and stage an accident, didn't she think it would be detected? KC's no genius, but even laypeople these days know about autopsies... The chick did supposedly watch CSI a lot.
-If it was intended to kill her, shows major preplanning and might show compassion towards Caylee (wanting a quick painless death) that's contradicted by a lot of what happened after she died.


My conclusion: A weak case for the use of chloroform, can't rule it out, but I wouldn't say it's likely.

2. Duct tape only
Pros:
-Easy to obtain, KC had access to it
-Effective, doesn't require much sophistication of thought or preplanning
-Found in a position that suggests it was applied in a manner that would cause death if applied while Caylee were alive
-Suggested link to a heart shape sticker similar to the ones KC had
Cons:
-Unable to prove it was applied before death
-Could be argued it was used to stage kidnapping postmortem
-Is a horrific way to kill someone who is awake. Would be eye to eye with the victim, who would be panicked and struggling.
-where did it occur? At home? Was the duct tape in the room with KC? Why not just use a pillow if suffocation is the purpose? No eye to eye contact with the victim, probably quicker, just as quiet.
-where did it occur? The car? When? At night? In broad daylight? Both are extremely risky.
- could argue that it was done postmortem. Covering the face of the dead can be a way of dehumanizing them to allow for easier acceptance of their disposal for the killer.

My conclusion: Again, not a slam dunk to me, even trying to consider KC's illogical mindset.

I realize that some of the evidence might be conflicting because KC herself was conflicted (I.e. Body in trash bags and disposed of casually, but the sticker being placed and comforting items left at the body site) but IMO I just haven't seen the SA make a compelling case that proves that either of these were how Caylee died. My opinion only of course, and maybe I'm missing something.

I think maybe the reason that she was experimenting with making/ using chloroform is that she was going to kill her parents by staging a murder suicide. But she tried it out on Caylee first. And she may have accidentally killed Caylee when she gave her too much at one time.
This theory would answer many of your questions and concerns.

The tape would have been put on right after she died, imo. And I think the chloroform spilled in the trunk during the incident. Hence the high levels in the carpet.

 

[GeekyGirl]

I think maybe the reason that she was experimenting with making/ using chloroform is that she was going to kill her parents by staging a murder suicide. But she tried it out on Caylee first. And she may have accidentally killed Caylee when she gave her too much at one time.
This theory would answer many of your questions and concerns.

The tape would have been put on right after she died, imo. And I think the chloroform spilled in the trunk during the incident. Hence the high levels in the carpet.

Thank you for thoughts. That's an interesting scenario, but why have Caylee's body in the trunk of the car while experimenting? And when would she have done this? The night of the 15th or during the day on the 16th? Where did she manufacture and store the chloroform? Is there any proof she purchased the necessary chemicals? Rhetorical questions here... Just frustrated by how little will know.

 

[katydid23]

Thank you for thoughts. That's an interesting scenario, but why have Caylee's body in the trunk of the car while experimenting? And when would she have done this? The night of the 15th or during the day on the 16th? Where did she manufacture and store the chloroform? Is there any proof she purchased the necessary chemicals? Rhetorical questions here... Just frustrated by how little will know.

I don't think the body was in the trunk while she did that. I think it happened late on the 15th or early morning of the 16th. I think she may have been in her own room when she tried the chloroform out.

I think the manufacturing, in her case, was just a simple case of mixing some of the things she read on the internet recipe. She did not do it right, she did it half arsed like everything she did. All of the necessary chemicals are easy to come by. Acetone is carried at Home Depot and if she paid cash there would be no record of her doing so. She could have stored it in the family garage in the large cooler, or in a hidden area. I doubt she did it correctly which may be why her child died.

 

[raine1212]

what has been racing through my mind. If I remember correctly. Didn't CA say that there are some truths in KC when she is lying (forgive me memory bad).
Maybe drowning did happen.
1. Chloroform
2. Duct tape
3. Drowning at home in bath tub
Just my thinking

 

[GeekyGirl]

what has been racing through my mind. If I remember correctly. Didn't CA say that there are some truths in KC when she is lying (forgive me memory bad).
Maybe drowning did happen.
1. Chloroform
2. Duct tape
3. Drowning at home in bath tub
Just my thinking

Forgive me, I'm not quite following you here... Interesting point about the lies containing some truths, but you lost me after that... are you saying she chloroformed her, put the duct tape on her and then drown her in the bathtub?

 

[Queenofwands]

I am thinking on the night of the 15th, after the fight with Cindy, ICA was headed to Tone house with screaming Caylee in the car seat wanting her Grandma.

IIRC, the cell pings showed she stayed at the Anthony home the night of the 15th (or else was out of the home, but close by - in the same neighborhood).

 

[raine1212]

Forgive me, I'm not quite following you here... Interesting point about the lies containing some truths, but you lost me after that... are you saying she chloroformed her, put the duct tape on her and then drown her in the bathtub?

Yes, that is my thinking, so sorry I was not clear. Trying to use my iPad with my 4 year old in my lap

 

[GeekyGirl]

Yes, that is my thinking, so sorry I was not clear. Trying to use my iPad with my 4 year old in my lap

No worries I have that same problem with my ipad and my pug!!

 

[DeadCat]

what has been racing through my mind. If I remember correctly. Didn't CA say that there are some truths in KC when she is lying (forgive me memory bad).
Maybe drowning did happen.
1. Chloroform
2. Duct tape
3. Drowning at home in bath tub
Just my thinking

Ugh. How about--
1. Chloroform
2. Drowning in bath (and then carefully dressing her in shorts/t-shirt?)
3. Duct tape last to look like kidnapping

Transported to Tone's and stored in Amy's car which had been towed there (or did that towing happen much later?)

 

[GeekyGirl]

Ugh. How about--
1. Chloroform
2. Drowning in bath (and then carefully dressing her in shorts/t-shirt?)
3. Duct tape last to look like kidnapping

Transported to Tone's and stored in Amy's car which had been towed there (or did that towing happen much later?)

I guess my question would be, if she was capable of drowning her own child, why the chloroform? It seems like an elaborate and unnecessary step. MOO

 

[DeadCat]

I guess my question would be, if she was capable of drowning her own child, why the chloroform? It seems like an elaborate and unnecessary step. MOO

I don't really know what would actually happen, but wouldn't knocking someone out before placing in water, make that happen more "peacefully"? Maybe it wouldn't. ??

I have a toddler and cannot understand how someone could do these things, especially premeditative-ly (sp?) (which I think it was in this case). I think poor Caylee was used as a pawn. (If I can't have her, no one can!)

 

[erinleigh]

No, its not about debate, this is about theories, and I just wonder if she was truly a murderer, why did she even stick around, the world was her oyster, had she just killed her child you would have thought she would have split town, it would have been way easier then sticking around and getting caught, she could have also been a "missing" person and had her daughter been found dead, and she was missing, she would maybe also be presumed to be missing, and had that happened, pretty much every person would talk about how much she loved her child and how if she was missing she could also be in danger, and not really the perp.

as dumb as it sounds i think she stayed in town because of TonE. She was "in love"

 

[anne11]

I think the fatal event occured on the afternoon of the 16th, JG in his statment claimed to hear Caylee in the background during his call with ICA, maybe around nap time due to Caylee being found with pull-up's, as she was on her way to being potty-trained and just wearing diapers for sleeping. I agree with there being a real possibilty that ica was planning to dispose of her parents too, especially looking back over her IM's to AL
http://www.docstoc.com/docs/4770482/IM-History-with-L7Tone