Theories On What Happened to Caylee Part #8

[Bullwinkle]

I don't know if this has been posted already, but I just happened to come across an interview with (be nice) Leonard Padilla from June 17, 2011, which can be found here. In the interview, Padilla says:

"I am firmly convinced that it was an overdose of chloroform that caused the death of the child. She had been using it to put the child to sleep. She couldn't afford Xanax anymore, and on the night of the 15th, Cindy and her had a hellacious argument, and she ran out of their house with the child."

 

[Mendara]

It looks like the state is getting ready to testify about the timeline of the 16th, using computer forensics, and I will bet, the phone records as well. This is what LDB said this morning in court right before JB freaked out.

Here is a question for you though. IF there had been an accident that morning, and both George and Casey were there, why don't they know approximate time of the event? Baez even said today there was ' NO TIMELINE OFFERED.' Does that make sense?

AND, if you were the attorney, and your client told you that she was innocent and the incident was an accident, wouldn't you look at her computer usage for THAT DAY? This morning Baez admitted he has not done that yet.

Jose was very excited about his theory, so excited he didn't think it through. What I find really disturbing in how when the jury is out of the room how openly they speak about the theory not being possible. Like whe Cheney Mason said he had no evidence it was a drowning that it was just a theory and the burden of the state to disprove. The Jose saying he hasn't said what time the drowning happened and the judge tells him he better look at the computer history from the 15th through the 17th and come up with something. Everyone in that courtroom knows it is a lie/theory except the jury who only heard JBs opening which made it sound like it was true and KC told him.

 

[Tuffy]

The DT is functioning on a very poor level by not having all of the facts of June 16th. They gave the date and approx time. They did not have to present a case in OS. They chose too. Now its time to back things up. The jury will expect it. IF the DT wants the jury to believe and accident occurred I would expect them to present a timeline of June 16th. The truth needs to hide from nothing. Who cares if the state knows the time of Caylee's drowing. If it is the truth what good is it to "hide those cards"? A factual timeline from the DT stating everything that went on on the 16th, what ICA did, what GA did ect would go a long way to proving their case. Unfortunately they cannot because it obviously didn't go down as they say it did.

You're right, erinleigh, the defense team doesn't have to do anything with their witnesses. They don't need to narrow their time-line down, they don't need to have any evidence. The burden of proof is for the state to have.

If the defense team feels so inclined, they may say that Caylee drowned, the state's case is flimsy, vote not guilty. The problem is, the defense's story is unbelievable at best. If I were on the jury, I would want more than "please believe me."

 

[Leah0107]

'no one covers up an accident by pretending it's murder'

but maybe some would cover up a murder (drowning) by pretending it's kidnapping and then when the kidnapping lie goes bad, goes back to drowning with another set of actors in her play.
They say that every lie has a bit of truth. I know it sounds crazy, but maybe she did drown. Maybe that was her way of getting rid of Caylee but not directly by her hand. She put the ladder up on the pool, left the door open, made all of her phone calls, etc. knowing Caylee would wander out and into the pool. Maybe it's her sick way of justifying an 'accident' in her own mind. And the kidnapping scheme was either as part of her master plan or conceived after and that's where the duct tape comes in. I just can't explain how the Chloroform fits into this theory though unless it was just in her trunk. Maybe the Chloroform wasn't for Caylee at all, maybe it was for offing her parents. I used dismiss this theory when people would bring it up, but she did research a few odd things on that computer and didn't she say to Amy that her parents were moving out and she'd be living at the house. Just some thoughts.

 

[GeekyGirl]

I'm starting to think my obsession with this case might be unhealthy. The more I watch and read, the more confused I get. The only thing I'm even remotely sure of is that we'll never know exactly what happened to Caylee. I just can't shake the feeling that we're missing a big piece of the puzzle, but again, maybe that's just wishful thinking.

 

[rose222]

I believe that Casey Anthony is guilty of premeditated murder. She never wanted Caylee, never loved her. I think she had been fantasizing about getting rid of Caylee for atleast a few months before the deed was done.

I am a bit puzzled about the Chloroform. The computer searches show that she was very much interested in it. I also know that Casey is lazy. Lazy Casey did not need Chloroform to kill Caylee. If she did make it or get it from some other place then I think she planned on using it to steal money from adults (Amy's supposed "sleep walking" incident comes to mind) and/or kill her parents.

In this case, Casey would have a ready-made bottle of Chloroform. After the fight on the 15th Casey was probably enraged. She got the Chloroform and duct tape and very calmly proceeded to murder little Caylee. I'm not sure about whether this happened on the night of the 15th or on the 16th before she left home to hang out with Tony.

Another scenario is that Casey was, in fact, intrigued by Chloroform and fantasizing about it but hadn't made it. She kills Caylee with just the duct-tape (how awful to just imagine this) She makes the Chloroform, later, to try to get rid of the stain and smell in the car.

Either way she murdered Caylee in cold blood and deserves the death penalty.

 

[JBounds]

'no one covers up an accident by pretending it's murder'

but maybe some would cover up a murder (drowning) by pretending it's kidnapping and then when the kidnapping lie goes bad, goes back to drowning with another set of actors in her play.
They say that every lie has a bit of truth. I know it sounds crazy, but maybe she did drown. Maybe that was her way of getting rid of Caylee but not directly by her hand. She put the ladder up on the pool, left the door open, made all of her phone calls, etc. knowing Caylee would wander out and into the pool. Maybe it's her sick way of justifying an 'accident' in her own mind. And the kidnapping scheme was either as part of her master plan or conceived after and that's where the duct tape comes in. I just can't explain how the Chloroform fits into this theory though unless it was just in her trunk. Maybe the Chloroform wasn't for Caylee at all, maybe it was for offing her parents. I used dismiss this theory when people would bring it up, but she did research a few odd things on that computer and didn't she say to Amy that her parents were moving out and she'd be living at the house. Just some thoughts.

I have kind of thought along the same lines as you. That every lie has a grain a of truth. I've tried to wrap my head around it all for three years and have come to the conclusion that Casey may have in fact had many stories to make it what it appears to be. A drowning and kidnapping most notably. I think she couldn't keep it straight in her mind what it was going to be.

Now what happened initially? We know it couldn't have been any blunt force trauma because no bones were broken. But I think you're right and hit a good point that she could have set it up for some kind of accident and then panicked when said accident happened. As for what truly happened, unless Casey confesses it will remain a mystery.

She somehow pulled it all off though without any witnesses too. Everything single thing including the dumping of the body. She didn't leave finger prints and got lucky that a hurricane blew in actually helping out in every way with the body. Plain and simple she got away with it and I believe she still thinks she will still get away with it. I don't how the jury will go but it makes me nervous.

Also I've thought about the duct tape for awhile and have thought about that the duct tape was used after death to keep blood or fluids in.

 

[shgrbkr]

I have believed all this time that KC drugged and smothered Caylee. Now, I'm entertaining the idea that perhaps KC may have drugged Caylee then put her in the pool to drown on her own, or heaven forbid put a fully concious Caylee in there. The drugging makes sense because she certainly couldn't have Caylee thrashing and screaming around while she waited for her to drown.The comment KC apparently made to Cindy about using the shovel to drag the ladder out of the pool springs to mind. We all know KC draws her lies from real events has me thinking that KC did indeed put Caylee in the pool and let her drown, maybe she put the ladder on top of Caylee to hold her under the water (sounds ridiculous, I know) then KC used the shovel to get the ladder out of the pool so she wouldn't get soaked. This would explain the clean condition of the shovel as well. At any rate, I'm leaning toward an intentional drowning. I haven't been a fan of the duct tape being placed for any reason other than to keep Caylee quiet, but now I might be buying into the staging of the kidnapping story as the reason for the duct tape. KC is one cold-hearted, narcissistic evil witch.

 

[Leah0107]

Just trying like everyone else to understand what happened. Its becoming clearer to me everyday that will not happen. <heavy sigh> It's just so enigmatic.

 

[AZlawyer]

I was thinking about a possible motive. Casey was obsessed with the idea of getting the house, getting her own apartment, getting OUT of the family somehow in the weeks before Caylee died. What if Casey kept trying to "prepare" Caylee for the idea ("It will be just you and me and Amy! Won't that be fun?") and every time she mentioned it Caylee went into meltdown over the idea of leaving CiCi and JoJo?

After all...see my signature line.

 

[RANCH]

I was thinking about a possible motive. Casey was obsessed with the idea of getting the house, getting her own apartment, getting OUT of the family somehow in the weeks before Caylee died. What if Casey kept trying to "prepare" Caylee for the idea ("It will be just you and me and Amy! Won't that be fun?") and every time she mentioned it Caylee went into meltdown over the idea of leaving CiCi and JoJo?

After all...see my signature line.

I agree.This case smells of the conflict between Casey and Cindy.Cindy finally shut down the money train that ICA had been sucking off of for a long time. That was a big factor for Casey to flip out and kill poor Caylee. IMO.

 

[GeekyGirl]

I was thinking about a possible motive. Casey was obsessed with the idea of getting the house, getting her own apartment, getting OUT of the family somehow in the weeks before Caylee died. What if Casey kept trying to "prepare" Caylee for the idea ("It will be just you and me and Amy! Won't that be fun?") and every time she mentioned it Caylee went into meltdown over the idea of leaving CiCi and JoJo?

After all...see my signature line.

That's an interesting angle. Do you think it could it even be as simple as Casey being angry at Cindy for not agreeing to babysit that night, and Caylee having a late afternoon meltdown and demanding CiCi while Casey was trying to get her in the car? I can actually picture Casey losing it over that and grabbing the duct tape to shut Caylee up, and then carrying it too far...

*sigh* I'm going to have nightmares again tonight.

 

[Won'tforgetusername]

After looking at ACandyRose's 31 days outline, I'm curious about June 16. George left for work around 12:50, and then Kacey is on the phone nonstop from 12:53-3:55. What is Kaylee doing? I have learned that when Kacey lies, there is a grain of truth. I believe that Kacey was on the phone and not watching Kaylee. Kaylee probably got tired of being ignored, and wandered out in the pool. I am starting to believe that she wasn't being supervised and did drown during this time. Kacey realized that Kaylee was missing about 4:10 when she started the flurry of phone calls to her dad and mom.

I think kacey's first reaction was, oh crap, she is obviously dead, I wasn't watching her, I need my parents. I think that she didn't call 911,cause she saw kaylee was obviously dead, she may have been floating around for an hour. Kacey pullled her out took her near the playhouse. Went and got the blanket and wrapped her in it while she was trying to decide what to do.

She didn't want to miss the date with Tony, so maybe she left. The wrapped baby in the playhouse and thought, I will deal with this later....

 

[Won'tforgetusername]

Maybe she had also given something to Kaylee to help her take a nap,and when Kaylee drowned, she knew she was goingto be in big trouble. My thought is that Kacey was a horrible neglectful mother (probably drugging/ medicating Kaylee to get her to sleep so that she could party) and a really bad person (thief and liar). I believe that there wer times that she fantasized about life as a single woman without kids. But this particular day, she just was being her really horrible neglectful self, and after the fact thought, "freedom!"

up until a couple of weeks ago, I assumed that she did drug her daughter and throw her in the trunk....But my opinion has changed

 

[JBounds]

But that doesn't explain the covering it up part. Why cover up an accident if it was an accident?

 

[cluciano63]

While I am convinced that Casey killed Caylee in some manner, I do not believe she used the duct tape as a weapon. It does not go along with everything else about Casey, to me, that she would go off in search of duct tape, to the garage or work shop or wherever, when she could have just held a pillow or even a sweater, something close to hand, over Caylee's mouth for a very few minutes. To me, the duct tape came after she realized she needed Caylee to have died in a "different" way. That is also why so much tape was used- a strip over the mouth would have done the trick to keep her quiet, whereas the wrapping indicates what she thought a "bad guy" might do.

I think Caylee probably died from being drugged to sleep, so it's still murder. I just don't think that was her intent at the time-she wanted Caylee out of her way for the day, or a number of hours and was mad that she couldn't get her usual babysitter, Cindy. I just can't decide the when or the where and the state hasn't helped me with that. Carting Caylee's body around in trunk points to a total lack of plan to me.

JMO

 

[txsvicki]

I agree with the other poster, the money train most likely had been cut off. No money, only a couple of retail credit cards, the gas cans locked up and no key, probably threats to take the car, probable threats to give custody of Caylee or go to jail for stealing from the grandma. There may have been another huge theft about to show up in another couple of weeks as well. There is just no way to reasonably believe accidental drowning or any accident with all this going on, and knowing about the computer searches and stories she'd told Amy. She could have thought that having an abducted child and possibly herself injured in an attack would work, plus get her freedom, no theft charges, and sympathy.

 

[Jorjamay]

I think she died in the Car on the night of the 16th/17th I think Casey gave her something to knock her out so she could go off with Tony for the night and put her in the boot of the car, I also think it was something she had done before (Iam not convinced if she gave her choroform or some other type of medicationover here we have stuff called dozeall (spelling) It helps young babies sleep when they are cutting teeth, some of my friends have used it when flying long hall flights) That night something went wrong maybe the baby got sick and choked but when Casey went to the car in the morning she was dead. She waited till her parents were both at work on the 18th called them both to double check, then went home reversing the car into the drive she carried Caylee to the backyard probably thinking I will put her in the pool and say she drown she put the ladder up but changed her mind then thought I will bury her under the play house when she went to the shed to get the shovel it was locked so she opened the side gate and went next door(the bamboo root story)
When she get back she probably tries to dig a whole and realizes it a lot of work.
At this point I think she decides to just bag up the body and get rid of it I think she puts the Duct tape on her mouth and nose along with a heart sticker wraps her in a blanket then puts her in a couple of rubbish bags and finally in to the laundry bag and puts her back in the trunk of the car. Then returns the shovel.
She probably dumped the body off that night, And moved on with her life.

My problem is it's not First degree Murder I think its Felony Murder and Aggravated Assault

 

[sleutherer]

While I am convinced that Casey killed Caylee in some manner, I do not believe she used the duct tape as a weapon. It does not go along with everything else about Casey, to me, that she would go off in search of duct tape, to the garage or work shop or wherever, when she could have just held a pillow or even a sweater, something close to hand, over Caylee's mouth for a very few minutes. To me, the duct tape came after she realized she needed Caylee to have died in a "different" way. That is also why so much tape was used- a strip over the mouth would have done the trick to keep her quiet, whereas the wrapping indicates what she thought a "bad guy" might do.

I think Caylee probably died from being drugged to sleep, so it's still murder. I just don't think that was her intent at the time-she wanted Caylee out of her way for the day, or a number of hours and was mad that she couldn't get her usual babysitter, Cindy. I just can't decide the when or the where and the state hasn't helped me with that. Carting Caylee's body around in trunk points to a total lack of plan to me.

JMO

I kinda agree.

I think Casey had made a habit of drugging Caylee, and it finally backfired. "Reckless indifference to an unjustifiably high risk to human life", murder one.

The duct tape was used, I think, for a totally different reason:

After someone dies, there is sometimes an audible moan as the body relaxes and air leaves the lungs. And even postmortem twitching. It will scare the heck out of you, that sound. I think Casey covered her mouth to stop that from happening again.

 

[rose222]

I cannot imagine Casey putting duct tape on a decomposing body. The only thing I can imagine Casey doing if she got freaked out about some postmortem twitching or whatever is to quickly put Caylee's body in a trash bag, dump her (sorry sweet Caylee) in the trunk and then go about her merry way.