Theory #2: Family Abduction by George Waters with George Brody and/or Associates

[HeartofTexas]

I am in NO WAY insinuating that George Waters ever did drugs but I worked as a volunteer with schizophrenic patients for 3 years in the 90's... and many of the doctors I talked with felt that schizophrenia was oftentimes triggered by drug use. IOW, the gene will often lay dormant if drugs are not used. I remember once there were identical twins ... one was schizophrenic and the other one wasn't, but just basically took care of his brother. The doctor explained to me that that both probably carried the gene that carried the schizophrenic trait but only one of the brothers had done drugs, which activated it. I haven't done any real research on schizophrenia so don't know that the above are facts... but it could allude to Dr. Waters having done drugs in college, or around that time. Again, I am NOT the last word on schizophrenia.

 

[azure]

If the two Georges did something awful to Anna (which I do not believe)...

Dr. Doogie, does this mean that you don't believe that the two Georges were involved in Anna's disappearance at all? Or simply that you don't think that they would have killed her?

Also, I know you're incredibly busy, but is there anything interesting in the BFH that we don't know about? Also, any updates on the co-worker front?

It seems from the portrait photo that we can presume that GB was in the San Francisco area since at least 1950(?). I'm in favor of contacting the portrait studio, which, in the unlikely case they still had records that old, could tell us at the very least if GB was still GB that long ago. Other than that, what other sleuthing can we do, Websleuthers, given that we have a location for him for a substantial chunk of time?

Kelly

 

[Dr. Doogie]

Dr. Doogie, does this mean that you don't believe that the two Georges were involved in Anna's disappearance at all? Or simply that you don't think that they would have killed her?

I do not believe that they killed her. In discussions with Annasmom, she emphasised that the two Georges always felt that they were doing good in the world. She does not feel that they would have meant "harm" to Anna - they are more likely to have convinced themselves that Anna was in some sort of danger and would be better off not with Annasmom. Remember, the disappearance came within a couple of months of GW being informed that Annasmom had married Joe Ford and that GW could discontinue his alimony payments. This may very well have set into nmotion a plot to "save" Anna from Annasmom (who GW had convinced himself was "evil") and this new husband that he had probably concocted some sort of evilness on his part also.

Also, I know you're incredibly busy, but is there anything interesting in the BFH that we don't know about? Also, any updates on the co-worker front?

I am having to digest the contents of the Box from Hell in small bites. It is the documentation of a descent into insanity for a man who could have been valuable to the world. Trying to absorb it all at once will make my head spin. Also, analysing the contents thoroughly takes time - I want to make sure that I am not overlooking any clues that are not obvious.

I did talk to the clinic where GW's former supervisor worked and got an email address to send my questions to her. I sent the email this afternoon, but it came back as undeliverable. I will recontact the clinic and get the correct address, and then resend it tomorrow.

It seems from the portrait photo that we can presume that GB was in the San Francisco area since at least 1950(?). I'm in favor of contacting the portrait studio, which, in the unlikely case they still had records that old, could tell us at the very least if GB was still GB that long ago. Other than that, what other sleuthing can we do, Websleuthers, given that we have a location for him for a substantial chunk of time?

I think that you are correct. We had previously been able to trace him back as far as the early 1960's, but it looks like he was around earlier than that. Any research ideas from the WSers out there would be appreciated. As far as contacting the studio, if it is still in business, I doubt that they would have records back 50 years of individual transactions (remember, Bank of America didn't even maintain safe deposit box records back to the 1970's). It is a good idea and may be worth a try, but I am not optimistic.

 

[Annasmom]

Is it possible the two George's were using drugs?

mjak

If you are thinking this might be where all the money went, I can tell you I'm certain it didn't go to drugs. In fact, considering that GW's jobs were part-time, all those insurance policies, rent on three hotel rooms, paying off student loans, and GB's department store bills probably ate up a lot of it. I can tell you that GW took LSD on one occasion when it was not yet illegal. He had several patients who had taken it many times, and he was curious about it. Another doctor was standing by at the time. As for Brody, I'd be very surprised
if he ever even took aspirin, though he did have a taste for expensive brandy. As for triggering a latent schizophrenic tendency, certainly it's possible, but there's also the fact that GW was severely malnourished in childhood while in a concentration camp in the Philippines.

 

[Shadow205]

The only thing that I found when looking for the photographer was an old picture for sale on ebay by the same studio.

 

[Dr. Doogie]

I heard back from GW's supervisor and she stated that she new nothing about his personal life. He worked a night shift when there were no supervisors around and only one other doctor on duty. She also did not recall Brody being a patient or a Seka working for the clinic. Seka must have been a co-worker at one of the other jobs that GW had.

So, no new info from this line of investigation. On to the next one...

 

[azure]

I heard back from GW's supervisor and she stated that she new nothing about his personal life. He worked a night shift when there were no supervisors around and only one other doctor on duty. She also did not recall Brody being a patient or a Seka working for the clinic. Seka must have been a co-worker at one of the other jobs that GW had.

So, no new info from this line of investigation. On to the next one...

Somehow this doesn't surprise me. If GW was so secretive and erratic with his behavior with Annasmom and in public with only complete strangers around, it seems unlikely that he'd tell his co-workers very much about his life.

Seka seems to be the one to find, as well as any family members or close friends of GB's deceased girlfriend. These people may hold some clues about the Georges' lifestyles that could help Anna's case.

Kelly

 

[laini]

Dr. Doogie,

This may have already been discussed. I ran across an internet discussion that mentioned Brody and GW on zodiackiller.com message board. (I was looking up "eifee" and it came up). I saw your name mentioned there, also. Do you think there was any connection between Brody and those crimes? Just curious.

 

[Dr. Doogie]

Dr. Doogie,

This may have already been discussed. I ran across an internet discussion that mentioned Brody and GW on zodiackiller.com message board. (I was looking up "eifee" and it came up). I saw your name mentioned there, also. Do you think there was any connection between Brody and those crimes? Just curious.

The info on Zodiackiller.com was copied from this forum and reposted there. A man by the name of George Waters was a bartender who knew and alledgedly "stalked" Darlene Ferrin, one of the Zodiac victims. It was suspected that he could have been the Zodiac. Our George Waters is a completely different GW. Once I heard about that post, I posted a correction and that was the end of that line of investigation.

 

[smile22]

do u think seka could have been like a fake name or a nickname?

 

[Dr. Doogie]

do u think seka could have been like a fake name or a nickname?

It's possible, but it is what her parents called her - based on correspondence between Brody and her parents.

 

[gardenmom]

There is a Seka living in Sacramento that would be about 76 years old, could this be her? I just went to ancestry.com and typed in the first name only and CA.

 

[Dr. Doogie]

There is a Seka living in Sacramento that would be about 76 years old, could this be her? I just went to ancestry.com and typed in the first name only and CA.

Without anything to go on but my gut, I imagine Seka to be younger than that. I believe she was probably either an office worker or nurses aide in her twenties during the 1970's, which would make her in her fifties now. All of this could be completely wrong speculation on my part and this woman is worthy of a better look.

I work in Sacramento and can follow up on this. Gardenmom, please PM me the details and I will look into this. Thanks for your efforts!

 

[Dr. Doogie]

By the way, if anyone does a Google search for "Seka", be forwarned that there also was a *advertiser censored* actress in the 1970's-1980's by that same name. That is why you will get millions of hits! (And some very interesting photos...)

 

[annemc2]

uh, yeah, Doogie - I figured that out reeeeal quick! :blushing:

 

[mfmangel1]

It's possible, but it is what her parents called her - based on correspondence between Brody and her parents.

Is there any info that would enable us to locate her parents?

 

[mfmangel1]

Dr. Doogie-

Does the BFH shed any light on any other members of Brody's "cult"?

Since Brody and Waters believed that Annasmom and Joe Ford were a detriment to Anna (it makes me ill to write that!), my instinct, for what it is worth, tells me that they would have placed Anna somewhere that they could have maintained contact
with her new "family" and they would not have done her harm.

Who else did Brody control at some point in time?

 

[Dr. Doogie]

Who else did Brody control? That is the $64,000 question. Perhaps nobody, but it does appear that he attempted to expand his influence beyond just GW by wooing this Seka. I have not been able to establish that she considered the two Georges as anything other than friends or acquaintences...yet.

One point of clarification: I have used the word "cult" to describe Brody and his influence. This is not exactly the right word because it implies that there was some sort of organized group. I meant "cult" to demonstrate the type of mind-control that Brody seemed to use to manipulate Waters. Perhaps the correct analogy is "Rasputin-like". Brody created a scenario where Waters did not do or think anything without seeking the guidance and approval of Brody - much like the Czar of Russia's family did with Rasputin. And like Rasputin, Brody used that influence to his own advantage.

 

[Dr. Doogie]

Is there any info that would enable us to locate her parents?

Without a last name, no. I know that they resided in Belgrade, Yugoslavia in the 1970's when she visited them and sent a postcard to the Georges. A Zabasearch for Seka's in the U.S. turns up almost exclusively names that seem to be Croation / Serbian / Bosnian (all the former Yugoslavia).

The Seka who lives in Sacramento (age 71) was married (recently widowed) and had a son in the 1970's, so it is unlikely that she could be the Seka that we are searching for - the nature of the communications between her and the Georges makes me believe that she was relatively young and not married.

 

[mfmangel1]

Sorry....I didn't mean to imply the situation was a cult at we know it. That is why I used quotation marks.


This case just has me doing this every day::banghead:

I can't imagine how Annasmom, her family and you must feel at this point. My heart just breaks for everyone.