Theory Thread - What happened at Pistorius' house on the night of Feb. 13, 2013?

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I've just made the mistake of re-reading some of Juror 13's blog.... It's got me riled up ahead of Thursday!

I'm just hoping Reeva gets some justice and that the :liar: gets some :jail: time
 
Giles said:
I should add a word of caution. I mentioned a few posts back that Judge Masipa will know her decision by now. Of course, this may not be true. It is possible that on Thursday she says that she has not yet made her decision and that she needs more time. I sincerely hope this isn't the case.
Click to expand...

It would be difficult (and I would be chomping on my knuckles in frustration!), but we've waited a long time already.... I'd rather it be delayed and she gives the right verdict in the end.
 
Sherbert said:
Great post, Lux. To be honest, I'm surprised he hasn't left already. I don't think I'd risk hanging around, if I were him.
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Thanks, Sherbert. Yes, the same thought has crossed my mind. By staying, he’s taking a huge chance of a guilty verdict (murder) and very possibly being denied bail. But I think he’s probably so thoroughly deluded with his own ego and power - propped up by his family’s massive power and wealth - that he really does think he’ll beat this.
 
The talk in legal "corridors" is that he will serve between 8-12 years which, to me, sounds as though it is thought he will get CH OR does it mean his sentence will be longer and he is likely to serve only half of it?


“The talk in the corridors is that Pistorius will serve between eight and 12 years,”' said Stephen Tuson, criminal law and procedure professor at Johannesburg's Witwatersrand University. - See more at: http://www.skynews.com.au/news/worl...erdict-on-thursday.html#sthash.1mCDzJPg.dpuf”
 
“Oscar has a well-rounded personality and a fabulously positive outlook on life with a good self-image, which he rubs off on everybody around him. He’s been a tremendous source of encouragement to many people ranging from diabetics who’ve had to have their legs amputated even to [???] amputees and even a lifesaver in [???] Bay, whose leg was severed off in one of South Africa’s most vicious shark attacks three years ago. And he’s just a very popular, well-respected boy and I certainly deem it a privilege to know him and be his mom.”

- Sheila Pistorius, short radio interview 2001 (@5:51)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=uhMSIrJ7IgQ#t=351
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Oscar Pistorius - Before the blades (3:12 total)
EWN talks to Oscar Pistorius' former sports teacher from Constansia Kloof Primary School about the child he was

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YRSvyxmUKKI
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Oscar is proven a vile liar by his own MOTHER ... and his former sports teacher.

We knew Defense’s desperate tactics and 11th hour claims were all bullsh#t.

So much for OP’s alleged “slow burn”, “insecurity”, “vulnerability”, “anxiety” and battered self-esteem growing up due to alleged “trauma” of being a double amputee from babyhood.

All manufactured LIES.
 
Judgejudi said:
Oooooh, I've just found rabbits with hearts.

Could this be them? Both are from That Little Shop

Rabbit set is in the second row

http://www.thatlittleshop.co.za/product-category/home-accessory/wooden-creatures/

Different link for the lone rabbit
http://www.thatlittleshop.co.za/product/wooden-rabbit/
Click to expand...

Ooooooh, I think you're right !!!! Thank you so much, Judgejudi, I really appreciate it.

OP had said they have colored hearts on them (and these do !!) and I believe he said they were "cute" which has always made me curious as to what they looked like... that description caused me to picture a rabbit w/carved hearts all over it which sounded too cutesy/girlish for macho-man to give to friends and send pictures of to fans.

However, this "Straight Ear Bunny Set" for R 360.00 is cute, but it's also "art" which lends some sophistication to it.. leaving me not at all surprised that a friend would have gifted a set to OP and that OP would have liked them enough to start purchasing as gifts for his friends imo.

P.S. I missed seeing your tick-tock "bed check" yesterday.
 
I've had a very disturbing thought. We know that this is a "show trial" designed to demonstrate to the world that South Africa can deliver justice without corruption. Suppose Pistorius is found guilty of murder and given a lengthy prison sentence, all well and good and showing that it doesn't matter if you're rich, white and powerful, yadda yadda yadda

But he isn't immediately taken into custody, he is allowed to go home and "sort his affairs out" - and he defects. There would be much shock and disappointment expressed at what a naughty dishonest boy he's been, but the point about justice will have been made, he had a fair trial etc etc. but his freedom will have been bought after all, kwim.

Please someone tell me that this can't happen.
 
Interested Bystander said:
The talk in legal "corridors" is that he will serve between 8-12 years which, to me, sounds as though it is thought he will get CH OR does it mean his sentence will be longer and he is likely to serve only half of it?


“The talk in the corridors is that Pistorius will serve between eight and 12 years,”' said Stephen Tuson, criminal law and procedure professor at Johannesburg's Witwatersrand University. - See more at: http://www.skynews.com.au/news/worl...-on-thursday.html#sthash.1mCDzJPg.dpuf”
Click to expand...

I'm sure that means that he may get either 25 years or 15 years, and may be out on parole after he has served half the sentence.
 
Interested Bystander said:
The talk in legal "corridors" is that he will serve between 8-12 years which, to me, sounds as though it is thought he will get CH OR does it mean his sentence will be longer and he is likely to serve only half of it?


“The talk in the corridors is that Pistorius will serve between eight and 12 years,”' said Stephen Tuson, criminal law and procedure professor at Johannesburg's Witwatersrand University. - See more at: http://www.skynews.com.au/news/worl...erdict-on-thursday.html#sthash.1mCDzJPg.dpuf”
Click to expand...

What are you all predicting for Thursday?

Sadly, I am still stuck with dolus eventualis- which i went for back in spring, even though in my heart it is directus.
Whilst I bow to the superior knowledge of this legal expert you have linked to, I don't believe it will be CH.
 
hi everyone. Really sorry as I'm 99% sure this will have been asked and answered elsewhere on the board (I have looked but not exhaustively so it's likely I've missed it), but can anyone help me out with info regarding the form the delivery of the verdict will take? Will Masipa deliver her judgement and subsequently lay out the reasoning behind it, or will it be akin to the bail decision with a long preamble and then the verdict?
 
leda said:
hi everyone. Really sorry as I'm 99% sure this will have been asked and answered elsewhere on the board (I have looked but not exhaustively so it's likely I've missed it), but can anyone help me out with info regarding the form the delivery of the verdict will take? Will Masipa deliver her judgement and subsequently lay out the reasoning behind it, or will it be akin to the bail decision with a long preamble and then the verdict?
Click to expand...

I've got absolutely no idea, but I can't see how it can be anything other than 'Verdict --> explanation' because if it were the other way around with the verdict at the end, then surely we are all going to be able to guess what the verdict is anyway .. how would she be able to explain the verdict without giving it first?
 
jay-jay said:
I've got absolutely no idea, but I can't see how it can be anything other than 'Verdict --> explanation' because if it were the other way around with the verdict at the end, then surely we are all going to be able to guess what the verdict is anyway .. how would she be able to explain the verdict without giving it first?
Click to expand...

Thank you, and yeah, I'm inclined to agree - it's difficult to imagine how it would work the other way round - but then the template set by the bail hearing (when it seemed obvious that Nair was leaning towards the granting of bail but took two hours or whatever it was to get there) makes me wonder. I'm just a bit ignorant about the way it works when there's no jury...
 
cottonweaver said:
What are you all predicting for Thursday?

Sadly, I am still stuck with dolus eventualis- which i went for back in spring, even though in my heart it is directus.
Whilst I bow to the superior knowledge of this legal expert you have linked to, I don't believe it will be CH.
Click to expand...


I do hope you are right about CH.
 
Cherwell said:
I've had a very disturbing thought. We know that this is a "show trial" designed to demonstrate to the world that South Africa can deliver justice without corruption. Suppose Pistorius is found guilty of murder and given a lengthy prison sentence, all well and good and showing that it doesn't matter if you're rich, white and powerful, yadda yadda yadda

But he isn't immediately taken into custody, he is allowed to go home and "sort his affairs out" - and he defects. There would be much shock and disappointment expressed at what a naughty dishonest boy he's been, but the point about justice will have been made, he had a fair trial etc etc. but his freedom will have been bought after all, kwim.

Please someone tell me that this can't happen.
Click to expand...

After conviction, I’d be shocked if Masipa gives him bail.
She’s not exactly known for being a bleeding heart towards convicted rapists and murderers. LOL

She has gone out of her way from day one to give OP more than an equitable, fair trial - she owes him nothing more. (Compared to the vast majority of SA defendants, he’s already received special treatment on multiple levels.)

She knows OP takes responsibility for NOTHING; she knows the vast resources and connections of the family behind him. He’s had 19 months to sort out his affairs - indeed, he just sold two more houses. This guy knows karma is headed his way and something big is going down. His life status has changed drastically - he no longer owns real property assets to hold him in SA, he’s unemployed with no income (with zero future prospects). The only thing tying him to SA is his family - and if he disappeared to Mozambique (which has no extradition treaty with SA), he’d still be just a road trip or plane ride away. Convenient.

Being convicted of murder is a whole new ball game from being an indicted suspect - the presumption of innocence is gone. A convicted felon has nothing to lose by fleeing - especially one who has the money and networks (legal and underground) that privileged OP enjoys.

If OP flees on bail, a conviction alone cannot be considered justice done - the prison sentence must be carried out. Laws and verdicts without teeth are worse than useless - they make a mockery of the rule of law and subvert all faith in the justice system. (US banking laws are a notorious example.)

If OP fled while inexplicably being allowed bail, some might say it was a pre-planned, strategic move by the court, the best of both worlds to satisfy everyone - convict the “killer” but allow the “hero” to walk free. That would be the worst kind of perversion of justice. Given her sterling background, I simply cannot see My Lady committing such a calculated, Machiavellian offense.
 
Lux I hope to god you are right! I have read nothing but "....OP will be granted bail, albeit with strict conditions,,," on twitter and various news feeds and articles. This would be a travesty but I am mentally preparing for it. As for verdict.....CH seems to be on everyone's lips, hence the 8-12 year sentence talk....I REAAAALLY hope this is not the case! Still....it will be many years of appeals and disruptions before OP ever sees the inside of a jail. I come froma a 3rd world country where everything and everyone can be bought. I really hope and pray I am so so wrong!!!
 
Sherbert said:
I've been thinking about the Ipads - Do we know whether any messages were recovered from them? Sam Taylor mentioned that OP was forever texting in bed, both from his handset and from his Ipad. I know he deleted his browsing history, but I'm wondering if it was possible to recover his chats. Also, what about Reeva's Ipad? What messages were recovered from that, if any? And, if the reports are true, where did the police find OP's flirtatious texts to Erin Steer?
Apologies for all the questions so late in the day, but I would have thought this evidence was key to establishing a timeline for that night.
Click to expand...

BBM - I for one believe the reports of OP and Stear having an affair are true... supposedly confirmed from sources in both camps. And, I believe the part about them having gotten together the latter part of January. I'm remembering that OP tweeted about the guys being on a road trip to Cape Town and I'm also remembering RS saying in her text to him of January 26 (or) 27 that he had "picked on her" ever since Cape Town.

IMHO, a flirtation (or probably worse) message may very well have taken place at 1:48AM Feb. 14, 2013. All moo.
 
There's been so many delays in this case, I think there will be a lot of people (myself included) who would be disappointed to hear on Thursday if the judgement was delayed for another couple of weeks. Let's hope this case keeps moving forward, verdict and then penalty phase.
 
NOTE: The below is a quote (copied/pasted & Bolded by me) which Lux replied to a little upthread.

BBM below: I'm wondering if the first name of "[???] Bay" happens to be "John.". IIRC Sean Rens, OP's gun license application assessor, during his testimony mentioned that OP sometimes came to his house to sign paperwork, etc. or to the home of John Bay for the same purpose. ???by chance the same person???

<ReQUOTED by fox> “Oscar has a well-rounded personality and a fabulously positive outlook on life with a good self-image, which he rubs off on everybody around him. He’s been a tremendous source of encouragement to many people ranging from diabetics who’ve had to have their legs amputated even to [???] amputees and even a lifesaver in [???] Bay, whose leg was severed off in one of South Africa’s most vicious shark attacks three years ago. And he’s just a very popular, well-respected boy and I certainly deem it a privilege to know him and be his mom.”

- Sheila Pistorius, short radio interview 2001 (@5:51)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...SIrJ7IgQ#t=351 <end of reQUOTE by fox>
 
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