Titanic tourist sub goes missing in Atlantic Ocean, June 2023 #4

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The Boston Coastguard told the BBC on Monday that an operation to find it was under way.
It is not clear how many people, if any, were on board at the time it went missing.

Small submersibles occasionally take paying tourists and experts to view the wreck of the Titanic.
Multi day trips to the wreck cost tens of thousands of dollars and one dive to Titanic, including both the descent and the ascent, reportedly takes around eight hours.

The famous shipwreck sits 3,800m (12,500ft) down at the bottom of the Atlantic. It is about 600km (370 miles) off the coast of Newfoundland, Canada.

www.bbc.com

Titanic tourist submersible goes missing with search under way

Rescuers are searching for a submersible used to take tourists and experts to view the famous wreck.
www.bbc.com www.bbc.com

www.dailymail.co.uk

Tourist sub taking groups to find Titanic wreckage goes missing

The Boston Coast Guard is now looking for the missing vessel. The wreckage of the iconic ship sits 12,500ft underwater around miles from Newfoundland, Canada.
www.dailymail.co.uk www.dailymail.co.uk

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As a reminder, this thread is dedicated to the discussion of a missing tourist sub and the search for the 5 VICTIMS contained within it.

Discussion of finances, risky behavior, genetics, family members and anything else deemed off-topic will be removed and violating posters run the risk of having their posting privileges revoked.

Please post responsibly!
 
So, yeah, one of the endcaps is the most recognisable, intact piece. One of the wrapped pieces looks rectangular, box-like. I think that might be the frame from underneath - the runners. Otherwise, it might be the tail. Hard to tell. Other pieces look like the outer skin, random pieces of. They're still recognisable as such, but have irregularity of shape because of how they've torn off the whole. I don't see the second endcap or anything that looks like it could be part of the carbon fibre hull.

Very much my opinion only
 
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Scribo said:
This is a fascinating question: salvage of Titanic artifacts is so controversial. I did wonder why PH was making this trip, because in 2020 Nargeolet planned a mission to recover Titanic's Marconi telegraph machine. The US government tried to stop that expedition but in May 2020 a judge agreed that because the telegraph is historically important and could soon disappear due to decay, the expedition could proceed.

At that point NOAA made a legal challenge, saying it represents the public's interest. Essentially, NOAA wants to control all dives to the Titanic. I think this case is still tied up in appeals? If anyone knows, it would be interesting to learn the status.

Meanwhile, the Marconi wireless radio onboard --and all the information it contains--is in danger of being lost forever.
Click to expand...

Problem is… those making the trip to go get such items and attempt to maintain their condition are paying an enormous price to do so. Kudos for those who are attempting to recover history before it Is completely destroyed by the ocean.

What we do know is the price is high enough that the British or American governments have not committed to pay it.

IMO who cares if the work is done by a private group and sold to a private owner? Many many traveling museum collections are funded by wealthy private owners.

JMO
 
bestill said:
The recovered pieces look to be in better shape than I expected, from what I can tell from the video and the fact that they are mostly covered up.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I think one of the most likely failure points - speaking as a complete nonscientist - is going to be the seams, where the titanium caps met the carbon fibre tube. I think they look fairly undamaged because they just popped off when the carbon fibre failed, rather than getting distorted and shredded up. The stuff we're seeing all seems, besides the endcaps, to be stuff that was basically stuck on the outside... the tail, the outer shell. Not things that were inside the zone that was a different pressure. So maybe they were all popped off and thrown clear.

The carbon fibre hull, the electronics, the people... they were at ground zero. Nowhere to go.

Very much my opinion only
 
I believe PH Nargeolet was a great individual - brilliant in performing his research and his desire to further that research. If we blame him... are we blaming IFREMER (France's National Institute for Ocean Science), as well? It was with IFREMER that Nargeolet made his first voyages to the Titanic. And, IFREMER assisted in gaining salvage rights as Titanic Ventures was a precursor group to RMST. Has it been clearly proven Nargeolet personally sold artifacts? It appears that RMST was going bankrupt in 2016 (and I suppose museums didn't have enough funds to purchase these artifacts?) (jmo... I really don't like all the blame going on)

"Less than a year after U.S. President Ronald Reagan signed a law proclaiming the Titanic a maritime memorial, Titanic Ventures contracted IFREMER, the French agency that assisted the 1985 discovery mission, to salvage the wreck. Titanic Ventures later gained the underlying salvage rights, which then passed to RMST."

From 1993 to 2004, RMST visited the wreck six more times to salvage and research it. In 2010, the company returned with Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution to photograph the ship, creating the most detailed maps of Titanic ever made. (The National Geographic Society helped fund the processing of data from the 2010 expedition. Maps of Titanic based on RMST's data published in the April 2012 issue of National Geographic magazine.)


www.nationalgeographic.co.uk

Titanic Artifacts Caught in International Tug-of-War

British museums face off against private investors to "bring the Titanic home."
www.nationalgeographic.co.uk www.nationalgeographic.co.uk
 
somequestions said:
How is being classed and certified over regulation? Oceangate did none of the classing and certification. If I had heard CEO Stockton Rush make the comment that "At some point, safety is just pure waste", I would not have gotten on the Titan.

While I agree that there can be over regulation, this is probably why so many others in the submersible industry wanted him to get classed and certified so that there is not even more regulation. The people that were trying to warn him knew what could happen if he was wrong.

I can at least understand if the structural problem ends up being the submersible design with the hull because after the Titan made successful trips to the Titanic CEO Stockton Rush probably thought everyone else was wrong. It worked so maybe he thought Titan was safe. I am going to assume at this time that since most people who know about submersibles and the materials involved in the design seem to think it was the carbon fiber hull or the titanium seal to the carbon fiber hull, that 5 people did not die due to a CEO and his company not wanting to take the time to fully test a 7 inch thick piece of acrylic. What is strange is that Oceangate had monitors on the hull so if something did happen there should at least be some sort of data they have leading up to the accident. There is speculation that the Titan was trying to return to the surface suggesting they knew they had a problem.

It will be interesting to find out what the structural failure was on the Titan submersible.
Click to expand...

It is super interesting. Not only for marine travels, for air industry, too. After all if fibrocarbons have come to stay, it is important to compare the types. There is much of useful information to obtain. Wrong theories provide a lot of right information.
 
Puzzles8 said:
The Titanic's wreckage is both a memorial site as well as a grave. None of this should have ever been disturbed or especially exploited. IMO, it should be a crime to desecrate the artifacts of the Titanic, especially for profit.

Until 1985, the site had been able to rest in the peace of the ocean's floor.

IMO, out of respect, we need to let this site remain undisturbed in the future and let nature take it's course.

No more tourism.

JMO
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Agreed!
The site has been filmed over and over, if anyone wants to see it.
 
Interested_But_Confused said:
IMO it looks like they've recovered both titanium endcaps. The second video appears to be the rear endcap still attached to the syntactic foam "fin" and landing gear. Neither look particularly damaged or misshapen, from what I can see.

It's looking more and more like the carbon fibre failed, IMO.
Click to expand...
How difficult and painful this must be for families to watch.
 
fred&edna said:
I believe PH Nargeolet was a great individual - brilliant in performing his research and his desire to further that research. If we blame him... are we blaming IFREMER (France's National Institute for Ocean Science), as well? It was with IFREMER that Nargeolet made his first voyages to the Titanic. And, IFREMER assisted in gaining salvage rights as Titanic Ventures was a precursor group to RMST. Has it been clearly proven Nargeolet personally sold artifacts? It appears that RMST was going bankrupt in 2016 (and I suppose museums didn't have enough funds to purchase these artifacts?) (jmo... I really don't like all the blame going on)

"Less than a year after U.S. President Ronald Reagan signed a law proclaiming the Titanic a maritime memorial, Titanic Ventures contracted IFREMER, the French agency that assisted the 1985 discovery mission, to salvage the wreck. Titanic Ventures later gained the underlying salvage rights, which then passed to RMST."

From 1993 to 2004, RMST visited the wreck six more times to salvage and research it. In 2010, the company returned with Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution to photograph the ship, creating the most detailed maps of Titanic ever made. (The National Geographic Society helped fund the processing of data from the 2010 expedition. Maps of Titanic based on RMST's data published in the April 2012 issue of National Geographic magazine.)


www.nationalgeographic.co.uk

Titanic Artifacts Caught in International Tug-of-War

British museums face off against private investors to "bring the Titanic home."
www.nationalgeographic.co.uk www.nationalgeographic.co.uk
Click to expand...

It is important who did the Titanic Ventures gain the underlying salvage rights from? The company that owned Titanic eventually merged with another one. Theoretically speaking, the ownership of Titanic was British/US (talk transnational corporations, ultimately, JP Morgan owned Titanic).

So, essentially, are the remains British/US/both?

If the Titanic sank at international waters, is it no one's?

Does Titanic Historical Society have a say?

Do the descendants of the Titanic victims have any rights?

If Nargeolet personally sold artifacts, I won't be surprised nor shocked as he was merely following in the footsteps of many others. This is commonplace in archeology. (You can buy a Greek vase online, you just have to buy from a list of certified buyers. But how are these artifacts sourced out? Check Ebay, anything ancient. Many of these items are real. Where do they come from, though?)

The museums have the right to sell parts of their collections, too. To buy something else.

I would like to know given that Reagan had signed the act proclaiming the Titanic to
be a memorial, how did Titanic Ventures gained the rights? Surely not from Reagan. From whom?

This is a little bit concerning, legally. At least three huge businessmen perished on the Titanic. (One of NYC best museums bears the name of one of them.)

Another one chose to die to save some unknown women and children.

Now, who had the right to forward the right to Titanic Ventures? I bet not their descendants.

I don't mind rich people buying antiquities provided they make museums open to public. Think Getty's museum and Villa.

But this story is...something else?
 
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