TN - Gail Nowacki Palmgren, 44, Signal Mountain, 30 April 2011 - #5

[Columbo]

C said the person was 120-140 pounds, I believe (my computer is on the fritz so I can't get to my notes) and short, which would point more to female body build than male. Could still be a young man though.

glorias, it seemed she estimated the person's height to be around the same as Gail's, which as I recall, was 5'8" . To me that would be tallish for a woman. I could be wrong--this is off the top of my head. I'll check back and see if I can find exactly what she said.
....Okay, here's the link and the quote: http://chattanoogan.com/articles/article_203258.asp

"C said she never saw the face of the female passenger. She said she appeared to be from 5'7"-5'9" and weigh 120-140 pounds."

That weight would be sort of thin and slight for a male.

 

[redfish]

glorias, it seemed she estimated the person's height to be around the same as Gail's, which as I recall, was 5'8" . To me that would be tallish for a woman. I could be wrong--this is off the top of my head. I'll check back and see if I can find exactly what she said.
....Okay, here's the link and the quote: http://chattanoogan.com/articles/article_203258.asp

"C said she never saw the face of the female passenger. She said she appeared to be from 5'7"-5'9" and weigh 120-140 pounds."

That weight would be sort of thin and slight for a male.

If that were the case the first thing I would have noticed would have been her "adam's apple"! I couldn't help but wonder how she judged her height while she was in the truck!?

 

[fireflylink]

Prentice Cooper is an absolutely gorgeous area -- almost 25,000 acres I believe. Many Signal Mountain residents live in houses with views that look down from the top of the forest, looking over toward other mountains and down toward the Tennessee River. It's a popular destination for many hikers, backpackers, off-roaders and in certain areas family picnics. Preppy and Yuppie happily mixing with the Granola Crunchy.

However, like most large areas (parks or cities) there are places locals are aware of and don't dare go. This remote area, where roads are sometimes ruts and dangerous to drive, is not a destination spot -- it's known for being a very tough area where one can drive up on a drug deal or worse. Think Deliverance.There isn't much of a Ranger/LE presence in PCooper probably due to budget cuts and such a large area. I think that until now most people would be surprised to happen upon LE there.

Bolded by me
All the more reason to believe IMO, that without coersion, GP would not spend hours out there driving. Especially after the events of the 24 hours prior to her disappearance, and definitely not without notifiying a safety contact. Someone who is fearful, writing down plate numbers and afraid in her own home (lakehouse) is NOT going to go to such an isolated and terrain challenged area "for fun". IMHO...

 

[Snowbunny]

Bolded by me
All the more reason to believe IMO, that without coersion, GP would not spend hours out there driving. Especially after the events of the 24 hours prior to her disappearance, and definitely not without notifiying a safety contact. Someone who is fearful, writing down plate numbers and afraid in her own home (lakehouse) is NOT going to go to such an isolated and terrain challenged area "for fun". IMHO...

I beg to differ here. When I was being stalked and threatened I always grabbed my kids, headed for the mountains and back roads. I somehow felt safe back there. I never went alone. I always had people with me and we did disappear into the Smokeys and up into NC. People didn't know where I was 90% of the time and that's the way I wanted it. I kept my children out of harms way that way. I always had the camping gear in the van under a tarp and a cooler well stocked with food and drinks. I actually had a cooler that you plugged into the cigarette light that kept my food cold so at a drop of a hat that trouble was heading my way we were gone. I could be in the mountains in less that 5 minutes and nobody would be able to find me and I got to know a lot of locals up in those little towns. Its not hard to figure out you're being tailed by someone and when I felt like we were being followed I headed right back into town and headed for the cop shack. And yes I was well armed but I kept it hid from my kids.

 

[fbx]

My thinking is that the LE told C to stop talking...then she started thinking about it and realized that maybe she could be endangering herself by talking-I would assume that suddenly she was getting a lot of attention. I would guess that the strange car could be anyone, the LE, a PI (his or hers), AD, a random car that passed just as she realized that her name had been released, just about anyone.

The strange car appeared shortly after the sighting of Gail, and well before all the media attention started. The police, although aware of the report, really didn't investigate this until after the first ATV search 2 weekends ago.

http://www.chattanoogan.com/articles/article_203258.asp

Then last Wednesday she took a Signal Mountain detective and two county detectives to Big Fork Road

This means 3 things (?) IMO
-she was followed home by the people she saw in the woods.
-her plate was noted in the woods, and traced back to her somehow.
-the strange car is not relevant.

 

[Irish_Eyes]

Not that it really matters, but Powell's Crossroads is actually in Marion County.

<snipped by me for brevity>


I found another forum where someone has posted pictures of Big Fork and it shows the terrain VERY well. Delete the link if it's not allowed...

http://www.fjcruiserforums.com/forums/picture-media-post/96546-big-fork-signal-mtn-tennessee.html

And here is a video of Big Fork that I found as well...

7-6-10 Big Fork Signal Mountain TN Video on Vimeo

So, don't know if this has been brought up yet, but brittbritt found this video of the park/bluff general area. When I watched it, I couldn't help but notice that it's a video of people in a red Jeep and a pick-up truck going 4-wheeling in that same area last year. What is noticeable about these cars is they have the doors off....but this was July....I'm assuming they have to put the doors back on after, esp. to drive in the winter.....This was only 4/30 and right after bad weather....maybe the woman saw these vehicles (but with the doors on) and NOT Gails? This is a red Jeep and a pickup that apparently like to hang out in that same exact area, you know? I only see guys in the pictures but that doesn't mean a girl couldn't go 4-wheeling....and if you didn't do it often, you'd probably be nervous too.

I'm not saying it wasn't Gail, only that it seems a very odd place for her to be....but what isn't odd about this case???

 

[Snowbunny]

In my opinion, someone got very nervous about what might be revealed if Gail filed for a divorce from her husband. When you consider the money this dude had gone through in just a short period of time, that speaks volumes to me. For all we know maybe MP was being blackmailed and maybe Gail got too close to blowing the cover off the situation.

 

[JBean]

Bolded by me
All the more reason to believe IMO, that without coersion, GP would not spend hours out there driving. Especially after the events of the 24 hours prior to her disappearance, and definitely not without notifiying a safety contact. Someone who is fearful, writing down plate numbers and afraid in her own home (lakehouse) is NOT going to go to such an isolated and terrain challenged area "for fun". IMHO...

IMO, if it was her, there is no chance she was out there voluntarily. None whatsoever. She took very methodical action, she was scared of whomever was following her so she drives to a remote location? Not a chance. JMHO of course.

 

[Snowbunny]

IMO, if it was her, there is no chance she was out there voluntarily. None whatsoever. She took very methodical action, she was scared of whomever was following her so she drives to a remote location? Not a chance. JMHO of course.

JBean wasn't it said that Gail called LE about being followed that day as well? I don't remember where I read that but I vaguely remember something to that affect. I wish that C had never told the media what she had seen that day. LE should have been the ones to reveal this kind of information if it needed to be revealed. Now I worry about C's safety and well being. People need to realize that they should only talk to LE and let them do their jobs. I know that people mean well and only want Gail found but by telling this kind of information this person could have very well put Gail's life in danger if she was being held somewhere and it also impedes the investigation. We have no idea who we are dealing with here or how deep this goes. For all we know LE could have already been investigating another situation that may been connected to this case. They could have undercover cops already working on a case and by releasing this kind of information to the public they could had their cover blown and their lives put into danger. For those of you who may have information pertaining to this case or anything related please talk to LE for your own safety and the safety of others. There is nothing more dangerous than to be working undercover and have you're cover blown. Things can escalate out of control so fast and innocent lives can be lost. I learned early in my career that LE wasn't for me and everyday I worry about my son who is a correctional officer. So please think before you tell it all on line or to the media. We read here and so does LE and for all we know the perp(s) may as well.

 

[glorias]

snipped...

JBean wasn't it said that Gail called LE about being followed that day as well? I don't remember where I read that but I vaguely remember something to that affect.

That was on the Susan Murphy Milano journal. I still don't know where that info came from. Given recent events, it could have been info she got from someone on another online group.

http://murphymilanojournal.blogspot.com/2011/06/gail-nowacki-palmgren-follow-money.html

 

[glorias]

The strange car appeared shortly after the sighting of Gail, and well before all the media attention started.

Now that is scary. I cannot believe C was asked by people to go to the media with this info when she was already seeing a strange car in her area. Then again, maybe she thought if she went to the media, it would "out" the person in the strange car.

Is it possible that C or even Gail live in an area where strange cars might end up while looking for roads into the trail area? Are these high burglary areas? I'm trying to think of what possible reason there could be for the strange cars t be there yet not be related to this case, and I'm flummoxed.

 

[ThoughtFox]

C, if I recall correctly, said that when she did finally call LE about seeing someone matching Gail's description that no one returned her message. She had to call a friend in LE to contact someone for her, and when the detectives accompanied her out to the trails, they were surprised that the site was so isolated. So I can very much see why C and others were frustrated with LE, and you know how it is on TV and in movies -- people run to the media to get their story out, it's publicized, and everything works out just fine.

Sorry to be picky, but those facts there aren't quite straight.

C didn't call the Signal Mt. Police right away, she called the Sequatchie County Police because she thought they had jurisdiction. In Prentice-Cooper Forest there are three different county lines, as we were talking about yesterday. That road runs from Hamilton to Marion Co, but passes through part of Sequatchie. C is from Marion County, so I guess she wasn't sure who to call at first.

Another cop on that force did call the SMPD and they came out and investigated and C showed them where the sighting occurred.

The problem I have with this is that on FB people were spinning it as if the sighting was being ignored, and it wasn't. It had already been investigated.

 

[ThoughtFox]

I know people, camp, bike, fish and hunt there and there are hiking trails.. I would imagine it's also pitch black up there at night time unless someone has a flashlight or a lantern or someone has a campfire going..I would think there would be rangers on the premises too, but what do I know?

I've been up there, but it was 20 years ago, and as I recall we did see a ranger. Only that was in winter and the rangers were warning people about ice on the roads (so we didn't venture very far).

They are probably around more during hunting season or if there is an event like a bike race or four-wheeler thing.

Frankly, having watched a bunch of videos of that area, I wouldn't go there if you paid me! Unless you have an all-terrain vehicle it's just too rough. Those trails are probably great for hiking, but obviously you don't know who is lurking around out there. I like quiet places anyway - and those noisy four wheelers drive me crazy with the noise and the fact they are so dangerous. I've known several people who have flipped and had serious injuries.

The main point is, this is a State Forest, not a State Park. These are old mining and logging trails.

Anyway, here's another video that gives a good sense of what the dirt roads are like up there:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xAT3gOp32c"]YouTube - &#x202a;High speed video at Prentice cooper summer 2010&#x202c;&rlm;[/ame]​

 

[believe09]

Sorry to be picky, but those facts there aren't quite straight.

C didn't call the Signal Mt. Police right away, she called the Sequatchie County Police because she thought they had jurisdiction. In Prentice-Cooper Forest there are three different county lines, as we were talking about yesterday. That road runs from Hamilton to Marion Co, but passes through part of Sequatchie. C is from Marion County, so I guess she wasn't sure who to call at first.

Another cop on that force did call the SMPD and they came out and investigated and C showed them where the sighting occurred.

The problem I have with this is that on FB people were spinning it as if the sighting was being ignored, and it wasn't. It had already been investigated.

I appreciate this clarification. I think that it might be easier to believe there is a lack of police response vs. Gail not being found because she is well hidden. We see it in most cases-people need someone to be angry at, and the target is frequently LE.

 

[believe09]

Thought, you bring up another good point-mining trails. I wonder if the openings of any shafts are well documented?

 

[Sleuthy1]

I would guess that the strange car could be anyone, the LE, a PI (his or hers), AD, a random car that passed just as she realized that her name had been released, just about anyone.

AD is and has been in Alabama for quite sometime now.She has not been up to TN for almost 2 weeks now.So plz know, the strange vehicle C says she is seeing is not AD.

 

[perico]

The Big Fork Road area is notorious these days for meth. It is not safe.

 

[glorias]

Sorry to be picky, but those facts there aren't quite straight.

C didn't call the Signal Mt. Police right away, she called the Sequatchie County Police because she thought they had jurisdiction. In Prentice-Cooper Forest there are three different county lines, as we were talking about yesterday. That road runs from Hamilton to Marion Co, but passes through part of Sequatchie. C is from Marion County, so I guess she wasn't sure who to call at first.

Another cop on that force did call the SMPD and they came out and investigated and C showed them where the sighting occurred.

The problem I have with this is that on FB people were spinning it as if the sighting was being ignored, and it wasn't. It had already been investigated.

I'm not getting my info from FB, I want to make that 100% clear right now.

I am talking about this:

She said at first she thought it was just a domestic situation, but she later decided to call the Sequatchie County Sheriff's Office. She said there was no return call. She then called an officer she knows there and he contacted the Signal Mountain Police

From this article:

http://www.chattanoogan.com/articles/article_203258.asp

It reported that she got no return call at all, no one told her it was the wrong jurisdiction or forwarded it on to the correct one. C says she had to call someone she knew to get a reply. Later, she said "The detectives were surprised at how isolated it is" on the trails, while many locals here have mentioned numerous times that it is almost a haven for crime. Also, later, fbx said that the police were aware of the report but didn't investigate the area until after ATV searches were done by volunteers a couple of weeks ago:

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6671908&postcount=625"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - TN TN - Gail Nowacki Palmgren, 44, Signal Mountain, 30 April 2011 - #5[/ame]


My comment was only that, based on that article and discussion on WS, I could see why people were frustrated even if they really shouldn't have been. I was not endorsing FB or their theories, and I wasn't trying to bash LE in the slightest. I was just commenting on the whole situation.

 

[Sleuthy1]

The Big Fork Road area is notorious these days for meth. It is not safe.

:twocents:Maybe GP was snatched to cook in someone's Meth Lab... or make formulas for "designer drugs" for some local cartel. She has a doctorate of Pharmacy (and so does Matt) .....Pharmacists have big chemistry backgrounds typically. I know sounds like a made for TV movie....hey stranger things have happened. Let your "sleuthy minds" figure that out for yourself. There is much more to my possible 'way out there" theory, BUT ...this situation has been way too "out there" from the beginning and just gets more curious with each passing day. Who really knows what or who trust or believe anymore.:banghead:

 

[ThoughtFox]

I'm not getting my info from FB, I want to make that 100% clear right now.

I am talking about this:

From this article:

http://www.chattanoogan.com/articles/article_203258.asp

It reported that she got no return call at all, no one told her it was the wrong jurisdiction or forwarded it on to the correct one. C says she had to call someone she knew to get a reply. Later, she said "The detectives were surprised at how isolated it is" on the trails, while many locals here have mentioned numerous times that it is almost a haven for crime. Also, later, fbx said that the police were aware of the report but didn't investigate the area until after ATV searches were done by volunteers a couple of weeks ago:

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - TN TN - Gail Nowacki Palmgren, 44, Signal Mountain, 30 April 2011 - #5


My comment was only that, based on that article and discussion on WS, I could see why people were frustrated even if they really shouldn't have been. I was not endorsing FB or their theories, and I wasn't trying to bash LE in the slightest. I was just commenting on the whole situation.

I understand that, and I'm as frustrated as everyone else by the almost stunning nonchalance on the part of LE about that area on the back of the mountain. How could they not think of searching there? Why did they let the volunteers do it for them?

One reason might be because they have a different theory about her disappearance that has nothing to do with Gail being on that part of the mountain. They have more information than the rest of us do.

However, they did go out and look around there. And from reading on FB, it would seem they also responded to the report of a bad odor on Insurance Bluff, which turned out to be a dead dog. So that's actually two times they responded out there.

But look - there's been a volunteer ATV search, LE has looked around out there, and they still haven't found that red jeep! Yes it could be hidden out there, or just as easily it could have been driven away from there.

The fact is, this woman C. (for whatever reason) chose to call a different police department than the SMPD which has been mentioned in every news story.

This case has been all over the news almost every day, and yet C. also waited two weeks, knowing she had probably called the wrong police department? See what I'm saying? It's not just the SMPD who may be at fault here. Everyone knows that Gail is from Signal Mountain, so I just don't understand all this confusion about whom to call. :cow: