TN - Gail Nowacki Palmgren, 44, Signal Mountain, 30 April 2011 - #7

[glorias]

Thanks for the info, Sleuthy1. Have you heard if K&D are going to refile that paperwork with the other judge?

 

[BeanE]

I work in the mental health field, and we have tested, diagnosed, and then treated people even into their sixties for ADD and ADHD. In most cases that I've seen, older adults seeking treatment for those disabilities were never diagnosed as children, or were in fact misdiagnosed. Undiagnosed ADD and ADHD can lead to depression, and even drug addiction because people will self medicate to get relief. They don't understand what's wrong, but they do know that they are miserable, or that they are having difficulties in life that they can't explain or control.
Of course, we don't know when Gail was diagnosed, but it's very common for ADD and ADHD to go untreated into adulthood.

I'm so glad you're here! Can you possibly tell me if my understanding is correct or not?

My understanding is that adult females have the lowest rate of diagnosis among all groups, and that among adult females, women around middle age have the lower diagnosis rate as compared to women around college age/young adult and women who are older, say 60+.

Thank you!

 

[BeanE]

_______________________________________________________________
:twocents:

http://divorcedwomenonline.com/2010/08/17/how-to-leave-an-abusive-husband/

http://www.livestrong.com/article/135192-steps-leave-abusive-relationship/

http://www.squidoo.com/leave-husband

http://www.virginiadivorceattorney.com/library/how-to-escape-an-abusive-relationship-virginia-beach-divorce-lawyer.cfm

http://www.virginiadivorceattorney.com/library/divorcing-your-abusive-husband-divorce-lawyers-virginia-beach.cfm

http://www.helpguide.org/mental/domestic_violence_abuse_help_treatment_prevention.htm

<snipet>Computer and Internet safety for abused and battered women
Abusers often monitor their partner’s activities, including their computer use. While there are ways to delete your Internet history, this can be a red flag to your partner that you’re trying to hide something, so be very careful. Furthermore, it is almost impossible to clear a computer of all evidence of the websites that you have visited, unless you know a lot about computers.

Use a safe computer. If you seek help online, you are safest if you use a computer outside of your home. You can use a computer at work, a friend’s house, the library, your local community center, or a domestic violence shelter or agency.
Be cautious with email and instant messaging. Email and instant messaging are not the safest way to get help for domestic violence. Be especially careful when sending email, as your abuser may know how to access your account. You may want to consider creating a new email account that your abuser doesn’t know about.
Change your user names and passwords. Create new usernames and passwords for your email, online banking, and other sensitive accounts. Even if you don’t think your abuser has your passwords, he may have guessed or used a spyware or keylogging program to get them. Choose passwords that your abuser can’t guess (avoid birthdays, nicknames, and other personal information).<snipet>

http://relationship.lifetips.com/cat/64781/abusive-relationships/index.html

<snipet>Leaving an Abusive Relationship
The process of leaving an abusive relationship is difficult and dangerous. Safety is the primary concern. Even if you do not think your partner poses a risk, leaving often triggers an increase in violence. It is best to prepare as much as you can ahead of time.
Ask a friend or family member to keep items you gather to take with you. Make sure the person you choose will not tell your abuser about your plans to leave. Do not take anything that will be noticed as missing.
Things to Stash Away:
Money
Contact information for a local domestic violence shelter
Prescribed medications
Legal documents for you and your children (e.g. birth certificates, social security cards)
Photographs or written evidence of the abuse
Financial records and account numbers
Personal belongings possessing sentimental value
Clothing and personal needs

Things to Arrange:
A plan that safely removes yourself and you children from the home
Transportation for yourself, children and belongings
A safe place to stay
How to manage being gone from home for an extended time
Referral to a lawyer or legal advocate to obtain a personal protection order, temporary child custody order, etc.<snipet>
:twocents:

Thank you, Sleuthy, but I'm not in an abusive relationship. If I did end up in one, I'd be well-prepared, because I worked in domestic violence for many years.

Thanks again.

 

[Sleuthy1]

Thanks for the info, Sleuthy1. Have you heard if K&D are going to refile that paperwork with the other judge?

Have not heard. As you know K & D have gone into "stealth mode" since leaving TN. I am not privy to that information at this time, but I hope they have their own attorney's working diligently on the behalf of Gail and her children. Hopefully, if there is a next time in civil court....they will have "all their ducks in a row" and get something tangible accomplished.

 

[Sleuthy1]

Thank you, Sleuthy, but I'm not in an abusive relationship. If I did end up in one, I'd be well-prepared, because I worked in domestic violence for many years.

Thanks again.

:twocents:I posted for everyone to read BeanE. I did not mean to imply that it was for your eyes only.:innocent: Yes, if you have many years of work experience in the field of domestic abuse, then I am sure you would be well prepared, if and when you needed to be.:twocents:

 

[JBean]

I am at work and will post when I get home. but I can confirm that Gail was prescribed an ADD med and antidepressants according to the court filings. I know 5 or 6 women in my own life that have been recently diagnosed with ADD.
I will try and clear up some questions when I get home and if anyone is not happy with my reporting of the docs, I am sorry. Because we are not posting them here.
I am honest and the owners know where to find me, so I am usually pretty accurate
When I report things from the docs, I typically quote them verbatim as opposed to using my own spin.
I have lots of firsthand experience with psychotic family members, (seriously) so I am fairly familiar with on and off label uses of certain meds as well and will be happy to give my 2 cents on that for anyone that care.

 

[BeanE]

:twocents:BBM
<modsnip>?
Diane and Kevin were only allowed visitation with the children, if and when, there was another member of Matt's family (if not himself) present during the visitation. This occurred when they were both still in TN(which was quite sometime ago). The children were not allowed to speak freely (as they have in the past). The children were instructed not to talk about their mother with anyone. That instruction included their own maternal aunt and uncle. So respectfully, BeanE , never assume what you don't know to be 100% true...because you may be mistaken in your assumption.:twocents: IMHO ~ I believe this was ONE of the reasons K & D sought out legal representation and filed their own papers in Hamilton County Court, albeit, an uneventful outcome to date.

Thank you for confirming that my assumption was correct, Sleuthy! I appreciate it.

 

[Sleuthy1]

I'm so glad you're here! Can you possibly tell me if my understanding is correct or not?

My understanding is that adult females have the lowest rate of diagnosis among all groups, and that among adult females, women around middle age have the lower diagnosis rate as compared to women around college age/young adult and women who are older, say 60+.

Thank you!

:twocents:
http://www.primarypsychiatry.com/aspx/articledetail.aspx?articleid=1303

<snipet>Prevalence
ADHD is common among adults. Estimates of occurrence of ADHD in adulthood range from 1% to 6%.4 Occurrence of adult ADHD can be difficult to study as some of the core symptoms of ADHD remit with age. Although the rate of hyperactivity and impulsivity declines with age, inattention symptoms often remain. In adult epidemiology studies, the incidence of ADHD is approximately 4.7%.5,6 The lowest incidence of adult ADHD was reported by Heiligenstein and Keeling7 at 4.0%.

Several predictors of persistence for ADHD into adulthood include positive family history of ADHD, psychosocial adversity, and comorbid disorders such as conduct disorder, oppositional defiant disorder, and mood/anxiety disorders.8 Another reason that adult ADHD is often overlooked may be due to the way we define remission and categorize the symptoms. Adults may not have the required number of DSM-IV symptoms to meet full criteria but may have enough disability to be functionally impaired.3 Longitudinal studies of children with ADHD have revealed that 60% no longer meet diagnostic criteria (syndromatic remission), 30% continue to have symptomatic remission (subthreshold symptoms), and only 10% achieve full functional remission.2

An interesting discussion by Biederman and colleagues9 explored the curious data showing that ADHD in adults have a more equal gender distribution than in childhood. In children the gender ratio of ADHD favors males at 4:1 to females at 9:1. Biederman and colleagues9 postulated that since boys have a greater tendency to demonstrate disruptive behavior disorders than girls, the disorder is diagnosed more in boys during childhood. Further studies in females at younger ages are required to fully understand this phenomenon. Perhaps by diagnosing more adult women with ADHD, we can better calculate the prevalence of the disorder in young girls.<snipet>:twocents:

 

[hollyblue]

Thanks for the below Sleuthy1 and I agree.

:twocents:So...you see ...people go to therapy for a number of different reasons. It is not always indicative of severe psychiatric instability issues(ie: clinical depression, paranoid schizophrenia etc.). Sometimes people just need a little help managing their Adult ADD / ADHD or maybe someone just has a mild depression due to a death(s) in the family(sudden loss of a loved one) or along that same line of thinking....the loss of a loved one doesn't mean eternal death....it could mean the "death of a marriage"...IMHO:twocents:

I'm just curious if the along with depression, if the meds for the ADD and depression, if not taken, could snow ball? KWIM? Like a withdrawal that would effect her chemically, if her system was so use to them. Throwing a quirk in there, for lack of better word to use.

 

[glorias]

The children were not allowed to speak freely (as they have in the past). The children were instructed not to talk about their mother with anyone. That instruction included their own maternal aunt and uncle. Speak YES....speak "freely", as they had before their mother went missing ...Then that answer ...would be ....No.

It is curious, if they're not instructed to talk to about Gail to anyone, that would explain why Matt allegedly got so upset at the kids talking to the school counselor. But the counselors in my day (1980s when I was in school, late 1990s when I worked at a school, so not exactly recently) would often be asked to deal with kids if they were upset in class due to outside stressors. If a student had a close relative sick, die, etc. and something triggered them in class, it was almost automatic to send them to the counselor. So it's weird that Matt wouldn't have realized that could happen, but maybe he had left specific instructions.

 

[BeanE]

I am at work and will post when I get home. but I can confirm that Gail was prescribed an ADD med and antidepressants according to the court filings. I know 5 or 6 women in my own life that have been recently diagnosed with ADD.
I will try and clear up some questions when I get home and if anyone is not happy with my reporting of the docs, I am sorry. Because we are not posting them here.
I am honest and the owners know where to find me, so I am usually pretty accurate
When I report things from the docs, I typically quote them verbatim as opposed to using my own spin.
I have lots of firsthand experience with psychotic family members, (seriously) so I am fairly familiar with on and off label uses of certain meds as well and will be happy to give my 2 cents on that for anyone that care.

Thank you, JBean. I trust you implicitly in what you say is in the docs. I know how careful you are to be accurate, and I also know you're a very honest person.

I too have firsthand experience with psychotic family members. As I've shared before, my son is mentally ill, and I have a close relative who is a diagnosed sociopath and has psychotic episodes.

I understand why you're not posting the docs, I just get frustrated with people on the net and the reporters giving their shorthand or perceptions or rewording or whatever it is of what's in them, and then the articles and the interviews give differing info about what they say, and, well, I just get frustrated.

I really appreciate that you say exactly what's in docs, and that I can trust in that.

 

[BeanE]

:twocents:
http://www.primarypsychiatry.com/aspx/articledetail.aspx?articleid=1303

<snipet>Prevalence
ADHD is common among adults. Estimates of occurrence of ADHD in adulthood range from 1% to 6%.4 Occurrence of adult ADHD can be difficult to study as some of the core symptoms of ADHD remit with age. Although the rate of hyperactivity and impulsivity declines with age, inattention symptoms often remain. In adult epidemiology studies, the incidence of ADHD is approximately 4.7%.5,6 The lowest incidence of adult ADHD was reported by Heiligenstein and Keeling7 at 4.0%.

Several predictors of persistence for ADHD into adulthood include positive family history of ADHD, psychosocial adversity, and comorbid disorders such as conduct disorder, oppositional defiant disorder, and mood/anxiety disorders.8 Another reason that adult ADHD is often overlooked may be due to the way we define remission and categorize the symptoms. Adults may not have the required number of DSM-IV symptoms to meet full criteria but may have enough disability to be functionally impaired.3 Longitudinal studies of children with ADHD have revealed that 60% no longer meet diagnostic criteria (syndromatic remission), 30% continue to have symptomatic remission (subthreshold symptoms), and only 10% achieve full functional remission.2

An interesting discussion by Biederman and colleagues9 explored the curious data showing that ADHD in adults have a more equal gender distribution than in childhood. In children the gender ratio of ADHD favors males at 4:1 to females at 9:1. Biederman and colleagues9 postulated that since boys have a greater tendency to demonstrate disruptive behavior disorders than girls, the disorder is diagnosed more in boys during childhood. Further studies in females at younger ages are required to fully understand this phenomenon. Perhaps by diagnosing more adult women with ADHD, we can better calculate the prevalence of the disorder in young girls.<snipet>:twocents:

Thank you, Sleuthy. Was there something there that answered my question? If so, I'm not seeing it.

 

[Sleuthy1]

I'm so glad you're here! Can you possibly tell me if my understanding is correct or not?

My understanding is that adult females have the lowest rate of diagnosis among all groups, and that among adult females, women around middle age have the lower diagnosis rate as compared to women around college age/young adult and women who are older, say 60+.

Thank you!

Just wondering BeanE. You say "My understanding...". May I ask were you obtained the information using those statistics? I would like to read the article. Would you be so kind as to supply a LINK for me, so I can read it for myself. Thanks so much:innocent:

 

[obody]

There are so many things happening here that could be taken either way.

If I thought MP had a hand in Gail's disappearance, then I could think he was being nefarious in limiting who talks freely to the kids.

If I thought he had no hand in it, then I could think he was working hard to protect the kids emotionally, only letting the therapist, and those instructed by the therapist, talk to the kids about it, so it would be done in the best way to help them, not further traumatize them.

 

[BeanE]

Just wondering BeanE. You say "My understanding...". May I ask were you obtained the information using those statistics? I would like to read the article. Would you be so kind as to supply a LINK for me, so I can read it for myself. Thanks so much:innocent:

I didn't state it as a fact, Sleuthy. I stated, as you repeated, that it was my understanding. <mod snip>

If I ever quote statistics on it, I'll be happy to give you a link to where I get them.

 

[glorias]

May I ask were you obtained the information using those statistics? I would like to read the article. Would you be so kind as to supply a LINK for me, so I can read it for myself. Thanks so much

I'm not the one you asked, but I found this:

http://jad.sagepub.com/content/1/3/147.short

Males and females did not differ significantly on scores for current symptoms. However, for recall of childhood symptoms, males obtained higher scores than females. ... While these results imply that ADHD subtypes may be less prevalent in adults, the lower prevalence could also have been due to DSM-IV diagnostic thresholds being too restrictive

(Snipped quoted article for clarity. See link for full abstract.)

Note that ADD is also called ADHD, I believe they refer to the same conditions, if Wikipedia is to be believed at any rate.

The most info I found online indicated women were underdiagnosed, not necessarily less likely to develop it. (Link 1, link 2, link 3.) That third link says:

Meanwhile, women may be underdiagnosed because of a pervasive belief that girls do not develop ADHD.

Of course, since ADD manifests itself differently in people, since we don't know the duration or type of treatment Gail had, there's not much useful information in regards to Gail we can glean from this. Even if we were medical professionals, there's not much we could do with the little bit of information we've been given.

 

[BeanE]

There are so many things happening here that could be taken either way.

If I thought MP had a hand in Gail's disappearance, then I could think he was being nefarious in limiting who talks freely to the kids.

If I thought he had no hand in it, then I could think he was working hard to protect the kids emotionally, only letting the therapist, and those instructed by the therapist, talk to the kids about it, so it would be done in the best way to help them, not further traumatize them.

And if you don't know if he had a hand in it or not, which is the boat I'm in right now, then it just is what it is.

I see where I can attribute reasonable explanations to the different things, until I'm no longer able to. I put aside the things I can easily think of a reasonable explanation for.

I keep a running list of those things I don't have a reasonable explanation for, and that's my core set of indicators or evidence of guilt. That's my gold lol. That's what I'm after.

If I can easily think of a reasonable explanation for something, then I don't want to waste my time and effort on it. I want to get to the gold, if it exists, because that's when I have something to work with. That's when I can start building a feasible scenario, a sequence of events of what happened to the missing person, that's reliable, and helps me to develop leads I can document and send to LE, in hopes they can use them to find the missing person.

To me, these cases are like looking for needles in a haystack. I need my haystack lean, so I can find the needles. If I throw everything, or throw too much, on the haystack, I'm never going find those needles. I won't have a prayer of figuring out what happened to the person, because my haystack will have become just a big massive ball of confusion. Chaos. And I won't get to the gold.

My brain can only process so much, so I need my haystack lean and mean. I can't deal with chaos.

Most cases are much easier, much faster to get to that core with. This one is more difficult.

 

[Melodie]

Thank you, JBean. I trust you implicitly in what you say is in the docs. I know how careful you are to be accurate, and I also know you're a very honest person.

I too have firsthand experience with psychotic family members. As I've shared before, my son is mentally ill, and I have a close relative who is a diagnosed sociopath and has psychotic episodes.

I understand why you're not posting the docs, I just get frustrated with people on the net and the reporters giving their shorthand or perceptions or rewording or whatever it is of what's in them, and then the articles and the interviews give differing info about what they say, and, well, I just get frustrated.

I really appreciate that you say exactly what's in docs, and that I can trust in that.

BBM. I totally agree. It is very bothersome when people post things that are misquoted or taken out of context or reworded. Very annoying and unfair to the readers and those that are misquoted.

 

[hollyblue]

Wondering if the children have talked to Mr. Davis or Mr. Hoss?

ETA: Or Mr. Mathis

 

[Emeralgem]

Wondering if the children have talked to Mr. Davis or Mr. Hoss?

ETA: Or Mr. Mathis

Well...And I realize that can be a deep subject, but if MP isn't allowing his children to discuss or mention their mother to anyone then what would they be talking to Davis, Hoss, or Mathis about...JMHO..