Tom vs Nicole

[pedinurse]

as much as i support kidman in this pregnancy and her marriage and all that jazz... all the pics of her lately... gosh, she looks so old, i believe my intial thought was "vampire". she is looking so PALE and worn out lately. maybe she isn't feeling good.
anyone else agree?

 

[robinparten]

as much as i support kidman in this pregnancy and her marriage and all that jazz... all the pics of her lately... gosh, she looks so old, i believe my intial thought was "vampire". she is looking so PALE and worn out lately. maybe she isn't feeling good.
anyone else agree?

I generally think she just does not look good in that washed out pale blond color she has going these days. Of course, she is gorgeous by most standards even on her "bad" days. She looked much better as a redhead, in my opinion. She seems to have totally bought into somebody's advice that she wear flesh-colored or pale outfits all the time, which to me just makes her look more washed out. And I sure do wish somebody would stop the influx of Botox in Hollywood, I believe Nicole has had a few injections too many of that stuff.

 

[beakiebean]

I generally think she just does not look good in that washed out pale blond color she has going these days. Of course, she is gorgeous by most standards even on her "bad" days. She looked much better as a redhead, in my opinion. She seems to have totally bought into somebody's advice that she wear flesh-colored or pale outfits all the time, which to me just makes her look more washed out. And I sure do wish somebody would stop the influx of Botox in Hollywood, I believe Nicole has had a few injections too many of that stuff.

ITA about her hair-I commented to DH just the other day that if Kidman goes any paler or blonder she's going to be transparent. She had lovely red hair and a beautiful creamy complexion-as a fellow redhead who didn't avoid the freckle curse-I really think she should show it off and play it up.

Becca

 

[Texana]

Are you serious about the eating/talking thing?! We have been thinking perhaps Autisim or a hearing issue.

After my brothers wife died of Cancer he remarried and had another baby with an RN who is NOT a Scientologist (he and his first wife joined the cult together). She has decided that she is going to take my older nephew to a doctor behind my brothers back if he continues to be unwilling to budge. She keeps telling him "there is something wrong with Eli" and my brother says "wrong by who's standards?!?" She's at the point now she simply says "By MY standards!"

I hope to G0d my SIL gets it figured out before it's too late for my nephew!

Thanks so much for the info!

Yep. You can't form certain letter sounds without tongue muscles, you can't get muscles without chewing. Although, the child could have hearing or autism related issues as well. An autistic child can be picky about eating and that can affect speech.

There's two kinds of speech: receptive and expressive. Receptive, the child understands what you mean--"Go get your shoes." Expressive, the child can tell you what they are thinking, "I don't want to go to bed."

You can test receptive pretty easily yourself just by seeing what the child can do--can he follow one step instructions or two? (get your shoes AND your coat, etc.)

A child who shows receptive speech difficulty is showing signs of more severe issues. Many expressive speech issues can be "fixed" but EARLY INTERVENTION IS KEY. Sorry to shout! But simply said, the longer you wait, the more difficult it is to fix. Minor problems become big ones. For autistic children, there is a "window" for some behaviors that will just close if you don't get started early. Of course, there's the exception, but overall, you can not over react to these issues. If you "over react" then the child is fine just the same. If you ignore it...you risk the child having much severe problems just because the "He'll grow out of it" was the easiest route.

Does your brother and his wife enable the child not to speak? A lot of people do this with slower speaking children...it's common with younger siblings whose older siblings "speak" for them. It seems mean to say "Say Up!" when a child wants to be picked up and is holding out their arms...but if you do that all the time for all needs, the child learns that speech is not necessary.

 

[OneLostGrl]

Yep. You can't form certain letter sounds without tongue muscles, you can't get muscles without chewing. Although, the child could have hearing or autism related issues as well. An autistic child can be picky about eating and that can affect speech.

There's two kinds of speech: receptive and expressive. Receptive, the child understands what you mean--"Go get your shoes." Expressive, the child can tell you what they are thinking, "I don't want to go to bed."

You can test receptive pretty easily yourself just by seeing what the child can do--can he follow one step instructions or two? (get your shoes AND your coat, etc.)

A child who shows receptive speech difficulty is showing signs of more severe issues. Many expressive speech issues can be "fixed" but EARLY INTERVENTION IS KEY. Sorry to shout! But simply said, the longer you wait, the more difficult it is to fix. Minor problems become big ones. For autistic children, there is a "window" for some behaviors that will just close if you don't get started early. Of course, there's the exception, but overall, you can not over react to these issues. If you "over react" then the child is fine just the same. If you ignore it...you risk the child having much severe problems just because the "He'll grow out of it" was the easiest route.

Does your brother and his wife enable the child not to speak? A lot of people do this with slower speaking children...it's common with younger siblings whose older siblings "speak" for them. It seems mean to say "Say Up!" when a child wants to be picked up and is holding out their arms...but if you do that all the time for all needs, the child learns that speech is not necessary.

I realize you only brought it up as an example as enabling him not to speak but he never even holds out his arms! He doesn't seem to want to be held, doesn't seem to really want to even be touched. I don't know if it is because they are taught (within Scientology) not to just touch a baby for the sake of touching him and to never "make" him like sit with you on the sofa and watch TV or read a book.

Also that a child shouldn't be "mauled" by anyone, like when grandma comes to visit and says "aww, can I have a hug and a kiss?". That stuff isn't allowed. So I don't know if that is why he shows no interest in being touched or not.

I also have never seen him show signs of hunger other then just being cranky. He doesn't whine for a bottle or point at the fridge where his bottles are kept. He obviously doesn't even say Ba-Ba because he doesn't speak at all.

So, no I guess I have to say I have never seen my brother and SIL "speak" for him because he has never given them anything to work with... at least when I have been present.

Thank you for taking so much time to explain all of this to me, I appreciate it very much!!

 

[Texana]

Wow. That kind of behavior sets off my radar, and I'm not an early childhood specialist--I teach older children and mostly, what I have to do is be able to tell what's normal and what's not, so I can call in the specialists.

Again, the Scientology teachings seem to go against human nature/common sense just for the sake of being different. Never touching a child just for the sake of touching--Animals do grooming/bonding touch, for heaven's sake. Does expressing affection count as "just for the sake of touch?"

Not touching and not talking could possibly for some child temperaments, kick in disorders where a child doesn't bond--think of children in Russian orphanages, for example.

Those are also however some symptoms of autism.

It is one thing to not force a child to be touched when they feel uncomfortable with it, it is another to not show physical affection at all. We all crave to different degrees, human touch and interaction. It's a biological hard-wired need.

How does this child show he's hungry or wants anything at all? Does he accept whatever he is given at whatever times? A very placid and accepting natured child will go much more easily with scheduled feedings (like the Ezzo method, which I think is close to cult-like behavior) but a more strong-willed or sensitive child will not accept that without putting up a fight.

If he gets cranky is he automatically fed? That would be an enabling behavior. Think of it--he doesn't even have to express "I feel hungry" before poof! Food appears! Anticipating a child's needs can become a way of enabling them as well.

Not even pointing to the fridge as you say, for baba--I would be very concerned about that. What are the chances your SIL would follow up with anything? Isn't she a trained nurse?

 

[southcitymom]

as much as i support kidman in this pregnancy and her marriage and all that jazz... all the pics of her lately... gosh, she looks so old, i believe my intial thought was "vampire". she is looking so PALE and worn out lately. maybe she isn't feeling good.
anyone else agree?

I do. But I don't think she has looked truly happy in a long long time.

 

[Chloekins]

I do. But I don't think she has looked truly happy in a long long time.

I think all the botox in her face prevents her from having a "happy face".

haha

 

[southcitymom]

I think all the botox in her face prevents her from having a "happy face".

haha

No question about that! Maybe I should have said she hasn't looked happy or sad or anything other than mildly surprised in a long long time.

 

[OneLostGrl]

Wow. That kind of behavior sets off my radar, and I'm not an early childhood specialist--I teach older children and mostly, what I have to do is be able to tell what's normal and what's not, so I can call in the specialists.

Again, the Scientology teachings seem to go against human nature/common sense just for the sake of being different. Never touching a child just for the sake of touching--Animals do grooming/bonding touch, for heaven's sake. Does expressing affection count as "just for the sake of touch?"

Not touching and not talking could possibly for some child temperaments, kick in disorders where a child doesn't bond--think of children in Russian orphanages, for example.

Those are also however some symptoms of autism.

It is one thing to not force a child to be touched when they feel uncomfortable with it, it is another to not show physical affection at all. We all crave to different degrees, human touch and interaction. It's a biological hard-wired need.

How does this child show he's hungry or wants anything at all? Does he accept whatever he is given at whatever times? A very placid and accepting natured child will go much more easily with scheduled feedings (like the Ezzo method, which I think is close to cult-like behavior) but a more strong-willed or sensitive child will not accept that without putting up a fight.

If he gets cranky is he automatically fed? That would be an enabling behavior. Think of it--he doesn't even have to express "I feel hungry" before poof! Food appears! Anticipating a child's needs can become a way of enabling them as well.

Not even pointing to the fridge as you say, for baba--I would be very concerned about that. What are the chances your SIL would follow up with anything? Isn't she a trained nurse?

The teaching of not touching for the sake of touching is for the purpose of forming less of a bond, as is their teaching of not talking around the baby for the first week. A huge rule in Scientology is that you always put your "religion" first, that includes before your spouse and your children.

You must be willing to "disconnect" from everyone except for your "church". They know that the less of a bond you have with the real world the easier it will be to get you to do as they say. Then they simply keep tabs on you by Auditing and the E-meter (their own crappy version of a lie detector).

The 2nd reason they don't think one should just be touching a child for the sake of touching or forcing oneself on a child ("Can grandma have a kiss, please!") or even giving a child rules, structure, guidance etc. is that they believe a baby, a child, has lived before.. perhaps millions of times, thus, they are considered "Big thetans in little bodies" (adults in small bodies) and they should be allowed to make their own choices.

So in their minds, if a child wanted to be touched, the child would come to you.. I have heard my brother say to people- "How would you like it if someone just came up to you and started hugging up on you and kissing you when you weren't in the mood to be touched?".

My brother and SIL do have scheduled meal times, with two of those meals typically being given by the nanny unless it's the weekend or other day they happen to have off from work. The nanny also happens to be my brothers "handler" so they can be sure Scientology rules are being followed even when my brother is at work.

I am praying my SIL will keep pushing my brother to take Eli to a Dr and if he keeps refusing that she will go behind his back. I don't know her that well, I only just met her for a week this summer but I did like her and she seems to be the type to fight back against my brother. She and I were joking with my brother and laughing at the wacky tastless foods he eats that he buys from his Org. At Christmas she made him go with her to get a Christmas tree and they celebrated the holiday. My brother and his first wife had not celebrated ANY holidays (including birthdays!) since they became involved in Scientology.

Again, thank you for your time and knowledge, it means a lot to me!!

 

[Texana]

Oh, that is so sad about the child and touching...It is so essential for children. It is heartbreaking for me to think that would be deliberately withheld for any reason.

All of that "big thetans in little bodies" goes directly against everything we know about child development. Of course, going against all conventional wisdom is part of the disaffection/alienation tactics, too, right?. It plays right into the "We know better than everyone else." For an insecure or angry person, feeling they are "in" on greater revelations/secret, better knowledge is a means of feeling adequate.

It's like conspiracy theories, it is not the theory itself, but the feeling of knowing more or knowing "secret" things that is rewarding and reinforcing.

The answer to your brother's question is, "If the person hugging and kissing is close enough to be hugging and kissing, then they will recognize when the child is not in the mood."

Children are in general, much more comfortable showing physical affection with people they like because it is comforting and comfortable for them. Unlike adults, they are "in the mood" much more often. Your brother should know this, although he probably wouldn't listen if you did tell him.

Example: I was in a classroom a few weeks ago, and the teacher was reading a book. I was working one-on-one with a student and we finished, so we joined the teacher and the children sitting on the floor. The first grader I was working with snuggled right next to me as we sat down. Okay. Then another child started inching his way over, through the other children, to do the same thing! It was funny and I definitely felt like some kind of "child magnet."

But it illustrated for me the need children have for healthy physical contact with adults. Child molesters instinctively know this and they will seek out children who are desperate for that kind of attention and affection.

Keep encouraging your child to take Eli to a pediatrician for evaluation. A good argument I use when people are on the line is, "What can it hurt? If the child is average/normal in development, you'll hear that. If not, you'll find that out. What are you afraid of, this is a win-win situation for you."

Your brother must be rather special to have his own handler, I thought that was reserved for the more influential members?

HTH!

 

[OneLostGrl]

Oh, that is so sad about the child and touching...It is so essential for children. It is heartbreaking for me to think that would be deliberately withheld for any reason.

All of that "big thetans in little bodies" goes directly against everything we know about child development. Of course, going against all conventional wisdom is part of the disaffection/alienation tactics, too, right?. It plays right into the "We know better than everyone else." For an insecure or angry person, feeling they are "in" on greater revelations/secret, better knowledge is a means of feeling adequate.

It's like conspiracy theories, it is not the theory itself, but the feeling of knowing more or knowing "secret" things that is rewarding and reinforcing.

The answer to your brother's question is, "If the person hugging and kissing is close enough to be hugging and kissing, then they will recognize when the child is not in the mood."

Children are in general, much more comfortable showing physical affection with people they like because it is comforting and comfortable for them. Unlike adults, they are "in the mood" much more often. Your brother should know this, although he probably wouldn't listen if you did tell him.

Example: I was in a classroom a few weeks ago, and the teacher was reading a book. I was working one-on-one with a student and we finished, so we joined the teacher and the children sitting on the floor. The first grader I was working with snuggled right next to me as we sat down. Okay. Then another child started inching his way over, through the other children, to do the same thing! It was funny and I definitely felt like some kind of "child magnet."

But it illustrated for me the need children have for healthy physical contact with adults. Child molesters instinctively know this and they will seek out children who are desperate for that kind of attention and affection.

Keep encouraging your child to take Eli to a pediatrician for evaluation. A good argument I use when people are on the line is, "What can it hurt? If the child is average/normal in development, you'll hear that. If not, you'll find that out. What are you afraid of, this is a win-win situation for you."

Your brother must be rather special to have his own handler, I thought that was reserved for the more influential members?

HTH!

Scientology seeks out these types of people. People with high IQ's but low EQ's, Lost souls, people that have been searching for something their entire lives.. they just don't know what! Then in struts Scientology (Or one of their "front groups") with their "free personality tests" and suddenly these empty humans have something to belong to, something good (so they are led to believe) even.

Do a Purification Rundown, Take a few self-improvement classes, what can it hurt, right?! HA!

My brother has a handler because they make a significant amount of money off of him. In the state that he lives in, they only have one Org and he is the only Contractor within that Org. He does all the construction work that needs to be done within his state for his org, for his superiors and other members. . Scientology also refers him to non-members (local community, etc.). They then take a decent size chunk out of his checks before he can even make it to the bank.

Right now he is in the process of completely renovating a 100 unit condo complex for none other than... his handler/nanny LOL. She owns several complexes and rents them out to college kids.

To be fair, both sides make out very well, my brother wants for nothing... except, perhaps, a child that can express himself and just maybe, a Do-over in deciding treatment options with his first wife who died of cancer because they chose to listen to their "church" and use vitamins as treatment rather than going to a doctor.

Even after all this time of him being in Scientology I still sometimes just say to myself "I can't believe we were raised in the same home by the same woman- how can he fall for this garbage?!?" If anyone approched me or my sister (although our brother has tried several times to get us to join) with this junk we'd both just bust out laughing.

Who IS this man anyway, and what has he done with my brother?!

 

[Filly]

ITA about her hair-I commented to DH just the other day that if Kidman goes any paler or blonder she's going to be transparent. She had lovely red hair and a beautiful creamy complexion-as a fellow redhead who didn't avoid the freckle curse-I really think she should show it off and play it up.

Becca

I envy ya beakie. Redheads have the most beautiful complexions. Freckles or not. I'd pay to look like Nicole Kidman. She's absolutely beautiful.

 

[deanws]

I envy ya beakie. Redheads have the most beautiful complexions. Freckles or not. I'd pay to look like Nicole Kidman. She's absolutely beautiful.

OHHHHH!!! I think so too!

 

[deanws]

Scientology seeks out these types of people. People with high IQ's but low EQ's, Lost souls, people that have been searching for something their entire lives.. they just don't know what! Then in struts Scientology (Or one of their "front groups") with their "free personality tests" and suddenly these empty humans have something to belong to, something good (so they are led to believe) even.

Do a Purification Rundown, Take a few self-improvement classes, what can it hurt, right?! HA!

My brother has a handler because they make a significant amount of money off of him. In the state that he lives in, they only have one Org and he is the only Contractor within that Org. He does all the construction work that needs to be done within his state for his org, for his superiors and other members. . Scientology also refers him to non-members (local community, etc.). They then take a decent size chunk out of his checks before he can even make it to the bank.

Right now he is in the process of completely renovating a 100 unit condo complex for none other than... his handler/nanny LOL. She owns several complexes and rents them out to college kids.

To be fair, both sides make out very well, my brother wants for nothing... except, perhaps, a child that can express himself and just maybe, a Do-over in deciding treatment options with his first wife who died of cancer because they chose to listen to their "church" and use vitamins as treatment rather than going to a doctor.

Even after all this time of him being in Scientology I still sometimes just say to myself "I can't believe we were raised in the same home by the same woman- how can he fall for this garbage?!?" If anyone approched me or my sister (although our brother has tried several times to get us to join) with this junk we'd both just bust out laughing.

Who IS this man anyway, and what has he done with my brother?!

WOWOW thanks for the insight OLG. It is interesting to hear from someone that has personal knowledge about this crazy cult.

 

[dingo]

I envy ya beakie. Redheads have the most beautiful complexions. Freckles or not. I'd pay to look like Nicole Kidman. She's absolutely beautiful.

A friend of mine used to do Nics hair when she was a kid and well before her fame and fortune....apparently her hair is naturally very very frizzy....theres a bit of trivia for you

 

[deanws]

A friend of mine used to do Nics hair when she was a kid and well before her fame and fortune....apparently her hair is naturally very very frizzy....theres a bit of trivia for you

She used to wear it in ringletts. It was pretty.

 

[dingo]

http://www.fanoos.com/i/nicole_kidman_1983_tvs.jpg

 

[deanws]

http://www.fanoos.com/i/nicole_kidman_1983_tvs.jpg

yes!!! There it is.

 

[dingo]

It looks a bit out of control in that picture