Trayvon Martin's Autopsy

[joypath]

When they do an autopsy on a gunshot victim don't they stick a small rod in the hole to help find the trajectory?

The rod and/or laser method is valuable to discover the directionality of the shot in relationship to where the victim was when the shooter is unknown or when there is a debate over the possible actions of a suspect. Body trajectory is rather well presented by the damage done by the penetrating object be it a bullet or knife blade or screwdriver or et al.
It's a little like putting "Humpty Dumpty" together again but with greater success since anatomically "things" have a "usual" place in the body AND since the remaining fragments help in placement!

IMO and oh yeah, based on watching CSI (ALL of them!) LOL

 

[Allusonz]

DNA analysis re: blood on GZ shirt and jacket of which most of it is GZ's

From the DNA analysis of Zimmerman's shirt (p 110):

14 stains gave chemical indications of blood.
2 stains failed to give indication of blood.

All 14 blood stains yielded a single profile that matched Zimmerman's profile.


From the DNA analysis of Zimmerman's jacket (p 111):

17 stains gave the chemical indication of blood.
14 stains failed to give the indication of blood.

9 blood stains yielded single profiles that was consistent with Zimmerman's profile.

Of the remaining stains:

Stain E yielded profiles from at least two donors.
The major contributor matched Zimmerman's profile.
The minor contributor could not be determined.

Stain G yielded a limited profile which was not interpretable.

Stain I yielded profiles from at least two donors
The major donor matched Zimmerman's profile.
The minor donor could not be determined but excluded Martin.

Stain N yielded profiles from at least two donors.
The major donor matched Zimmerman.
The minor donor matched Martin

 

[Allusonz]

Point of entry of gunshot:

The entrance wound is located on the left chest, 17-1/2 inches below the top of the head, 1 inch to the left of the anterior midline, and 1/2 inch below the nipple. It consists of a 3/8 inch diameter round entrance defect with soot, ring abrasion, and a 2x2 inch area of stipling. This wound is consistent with a wound of entrance of intermediate range

 

[RR0004]

Inserting my 2 cents: This is very similar to documents that I've seen that travel with the decedent, it is considered by some MEs to be a "scene snapshot" as presented by the departmental investigator aka the representative of the ME's office at the death scene. (see "Instructions" on the top of the document) N.B. IMHO, it should be entitled as Medical Examiner's OFFICE death report as the signatory is/was NOT the ME in this case but that's being picky!
I'm reading it as "on back, multiple sweatshirts,pants,sneakers" and would be "shorthand" for {the decedent: found (by me) on his back, he was wearing multiple sweatshirts ('cause that's what they looked like at the scene),pants (both long & under) & sneakers (still on his feet)}.
As the ME & diener would begin the case, more details regarding
clothing would be added IF necessary.

AGAIN, totally my own opinion as a WS poster/member!

I willed you here, joypath. (Oh, if only I had that kind of power, lol).
So happy to see you.

ETA: anyone have an idea what "intermediate range" means exactly?

 

[tehcloser]

DNA analysis re: blood on GZ shirt and jacket of which most of it is GZ's

From the DNA analysis of Zimmerman's shirt (p 110):

14 stains gave chemical indications of blood.
2 stains failed to give indication of blood.

All 14 blood stains yielded a single profile that matched Zimmerman's profile.


From the DNA analysis of Zimmerman's jacket (p 111):

17 stains gave the chemical indication of blood.
14 stains failed to give the indication of blood.

9 blood stains yielded single profiles that was consistent with Zimmerman's profile.

Of the remaining stains:

Stain E yielded profiles from at least two donors.
The major contributor matched Zimmerman's profile.
The minor contributor could not be determined.
Stain G yielded a limited profile which was not interpretable.

Stain I yielded profiles from at least two donors
The major donor matched Zimmerman's profile.
The minor donor could not be determined but excluded Martin.
Stain N yielded profiles from at least two donors.
The major donor matched Zimmerman.
The minor donor matched Martin

bbm

So he had other blood on his jacket that didn't match him or TM? odd.

 

[Allusonz]

Usually a ballistics expert determines this.

"A forensic pathologist does not have to be a weapons
expert to interpret gunshot pathology correctly, but, because
bullets fired from handguns and rifles produce gunshot
wounds, a forensic pathologist should at least be familiar
with the nomenclature and operation of commonly
used guns and ammunition. The examination and interpretation
of firearms and bullets is termed ballistics or
firearms examination. It is a separate field of expertise
from forensic pathology requiring specialized training
and instruments of its own"

http://www.archivesofpathology.org/doi/pdf/10.1043/1543-2165%282006%29130%5B1283%3APPOGW%5D2.0.CO%3B2

 

[Allusonz]

bbm

So he had other blood on his jacket that didn't match him or TM? odd.

That may not be the case. It could be simply too low of a sample to determine the contributors.

For those that followed the Amanda Knox trial think LCN DNA.

 

[Sensei]

bbm

So he had other blood on his jacket that didn't match him or TM? odd.

Yes, quite odd, but it makes one think a bit that there may be a possibility that GZ was in some type of altercation that night BEFORE he encountered TM. If he was that may account for his injuries, and the fact that TM had no corresponding offensive injuries...JMHO and stuff.

 

[Sensei]

That may not be the case. It could be simply too low of a sample to determine the contributors.

For those that followed the Amanda Knox trial think LCN DNA.

Perhaps for the undetermined but there was one

Stain I yielded profiles from at least two donorsThe major donor matched Zimmerman's profile.
The minor donor could not be determined but excluded Martin.
Stain N yielded profiles from at least two donors.
The major donor matched Zimmerman.
The minor donor matched Martin

There was blood on GZ that did not match him and did not match TM...which is decidely odd IMO

 

[Allusonz]

Perhaps for the undetermined but there was one




There was blood on GZ that did not match him and did not match TM...which is decidely odd IMO

It could as well be contamintion from the first responders.

ETA I forgot to state as well that it may not of been blood. It could of been skin cells et al mixed with the blood of GZ which is something we must also consider.

 

[Omachka]

I willed you here, joypath. (Oh, if only I had that kind of power, lol).
So happy to see you.

ETA: anyone have an idea what "intermediate range" means exactly?

According to the book Practical Crime Scene Processing and Investigation by Ross M. Gardner "intermediate range" is between 5 and 40 inches and that is deduced by the stippling around the entrance wound.

PS: I really miss our little smilies =o(

 

[joypath]

I willed you here, joypath. (Oh, if only I had that kind of power, lol).
So happy to see you.

ETA: anyone have an idea what "intermediate range" means exactly?

IMVHO: the underlined term will result in a WIDE RANGE of measurements.....the usual and customary distance is 5-18, but as noted above, 5-40 has been offered as a range.
THEN one gets the dialogue of "distance from where": the gun "tip"/, the shooter?, the shooter's arm?......SO I'm thinking Dr. Bao traveled the road of safety (especially when it is NOT a requirement of a forensic pathologist to ABSOLUTELY determine distance,weapon type, etc) and used THIS term to identify distance per se but traveled the road of specific & detail when he described the ACTUAL wound site AS HE SAW IT and AFTER life-saving intervention & behaviors at the death scene.
Points to be considered in comparing the FDLE report and the post report: clothing, manner of handling said clothing and environmental impacts to the pristine conditions of the gsw on all parties in this case. Point of fact: H2O and abrasive handling of gsw contaminated articles do NOT preserve the integrity of the measurable GSW amounts directly after impact!

Again, my personal thoughts.

 

[AJ Noiter]

Tell you something I'm not understanding about this deal.

All this blood on his head....blows raining down MMA style.....officers saying GZ was bleeding out of his nose and mouth....TM's hands over his mouth and nose....TM one punch breaks his nose.....TM bashing his head onto the sidewalk....on and on....

Not only is TM supposed to have managed to pull all this damage off and have only one small 1/4" nick below his ring finger knuckle, HE DIDN'T GET A DROP OF ALL THIS GZ BLOOD ON THE CUFFS OR SLEEVES OF HIS HOODIE....AND NOT A SINGLE SPEC UNDER HIS FINGERNAILS!

Starting on page 106

How's he supposed to have pulled that off? Wearing plastic gloves or something?

Do we know how long Mr. Martin's fingernails were before the confrontation? Also, I'm not seeing anything that immediately makes me believe he did anything that would've put DNA under his fingernails.

I have read a report from Malia, Italy that said less than 50% of homicide cases over a 5-year period were able to get usable DNA. Only 11 out of 31 had foreign DNA and of those 3 were inconclusive. Here's the report here: http://www.isfg.org/files/31f9316afbc584bc0befd4454d6cd38c4f064f3a.02005010_843375355349.pdf

 

[LambChop]

Do we know how long Mr. Martin's fingernails were before the confrontation? Also, I'm not seeing anything that immediately makes me believe he did anything that would've put DNA under his fingernails.

I have read a report from Malia, Italy that said less than 50% of homicide cases over a 5-year period were able to get usable DNA. Only 11 out of 31 had foreign DNA and of those 3 were inconclusive. Here's the report here: http://www.isfg.org/files/31f9316afbc584bc0befd4454d6cd38c4f064f3a.02005010_843375355349.pdf

Not all bodies were a perfect as TM's was. Some could have been in water, out in the elements, degraded, etc. It had just happened. TM still had a tear on his face. Which reminds me. Would it make sense that this unafraid, would be criminal would be crying? Crying to the point of screaming? And with all that blood from the back of GZ's head if TM was bashing it on the cement, GZ has not hair. TM would have had to use his hands, would he not???? jmo

 

[AJ Noiter]

Not all bodies were a perfect as TM's was. Some could have been in water, out in the elements, degraded, etc. It had just happened. TM still had a tear on his face. Which reminds me. Would it make sense that this unafraid, would be criminal would be crying? Crying to the point of screaming? And with all that blood from the back of GZ's head if TM was bashing it on the cement, GZ has not hair. TM would have had to use his hands, would he not???? jmo

Actually, I would expect the results to be from bodies where there was sufficient reason to believe that DNA might be collected.

A total of 179 autopsies in homicide cases was performed at the Institute of Legal Medicine in Milan in the period 1996–2000, 60 of them were from stab wounds, 72 from gunshots, 47 from other causes. The autopsies performed represent the total number of homicide cases in the Milan area. In 66 cases, fingernail clippings were collected and stored for possible DNA typing. A Court order for their examination (DNA typing) was issued in 31 cases. Plastic bags were wrapped around each hand either at the crime scene or when the body arrived at the morgue before autopsy.

31 cases where they thought DNA could be extracted from the fingernails. That's how I read that anyway.

Also, how do we know it was a "tear" and not a raindrop? Did they test it?

How does using your HAND put DNA under a fingernail. If I clap my hands would that put my own DNA under my own fingernails? If I rub my leg with the palm of my hand would that do it? We do not know EXACTLY how Mr. Martin would've been holding Mr. Zimmerman's head to beat it into the cement, but I can think of plenty of ways that do not include fingernails.

 

[shadowraiths]

Haven't read the whole report so, may have other comments, however, there are two things that, to me, really stood out... three if you count the single abrasion on his left 4th finger. (p3) The latter seems odd in contrast to the alleged violence he was said to have visited upon GZ.

In any event, the other two are the itemized item list (p16) did not include his cell phone, and the typed incident report page (p13) state he was lying face up but the hand written notes (under pertinent notes, p15), state he was lying face down.

Am sure there are more anomalies but haven't had time to really scour this document.

 

[LambChop]

Perhaps for the undetermined but there was one




There was blood on GZ that did not match him and did not match TM...which is decidely odd IMO

Wonder if they tested his wife. jmo

 

[Etilema]

That may not be the case. It could be simply too low of a sample to determine the contributors.

For those that followed the Amanda Knox trial think LCN DNA.

But the one said TM was "excluded", nevertheless.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[shadowraiths]

As are guns.

You should never pull a gun unless you are prepared to kill.

Exactly. Regardless of caliber or ammunition used (i.e., hollow point, FMJ, etc)

Another thing I was taught during firearms training. Don't buy a gun unless you're willing to take a life. The main reason for this approach is, if you buy a gun for, say protection, and you've not made that important decision, the burglar who you may be trying to protect your home against could easily turn the tables and shoot you, if you were undecided whether you were willing to shoot him/her.

I realize the above is harsh but I do think it is important that people who *choose* to own firearms see them as *truly* lethal weapons. Regardless of what their reasoning for getting them is.

This is all, JMO, of course.

 

[shadowraiths]

IMO, that's beside the point. The way I read it, hollow points assure mucho internal damage in a way other bullets don't.

Well, yes and no. Hollow points are designed to deliver maximum force to the target. Striated hollow points (i.e., black talons) are designed to both deliver maximum force and inflict maximum damage. The latter, for example, will go into a tumble, once hitting soft flesh. Hence, even if the bullet misses the heart, it will literally obliterate the lungs, stomach, intestines, etc. Another reason hollow points are advised is bc they hit the target and stop, so to speak. Remember, maximum force. That means, if you miss, they're not going to go through the wall and hit your next door neighbor.

Anyway, JAIMO