Trial Discussion Thread #28 - 14.04.17, Day 25

[jay-jay]

It negates it because she is no threat to him inside the closet.

He can go stand right in front of the closet and shoot her.

The only reason to stand way off to the side of the closet is because you are afraid the person inside might shoot you if you stand in front.

No it isn't, not if it's premeditated and you want to make it look like you're shooting at an intruder.

 

[james83]

No I don't. That's why I don't think he would be over by the entrance to the bathroom.

The person standing over by the entrance to the bathroom was scared. :scared:

not angry.

That is an utterly ridiculous conclusion to reach.

 

[molly333]

You can't make the comparison with a jet engine taking off because that type of loud noise goes on for several seconds, whereas a gun shot is a short sharp noise.

The comparison is with how loud not how long. It's much much louder than a jet engine taking off.

 

[molly333]

That is an utterly ridiculous conclusion to reach.

It is? why?

 

[molly333]

No it isn't, not if it's premeditated and you want to make it look like you're shooting at an intruder.

well in that case, all bets are off.

But I see no reason to think Oscar is premeditating every step of this.

This girl adored him. She's gorgeous. What would be his motive to calculate a premeditated murder and think out all the steps?

And, even doing that, he will still probably get CH. He didn't think it out well enough.

 

[jay-jay]

No I don't. That's why I don't think he would be over by the entrance to the bathroom.

The person standing over by the entrance to the bathroom was scared. :scared:

not angry.

Does that mean you believe the whole of OP's testimony then? Even the bits where he clearly lied?

 

[Mr Ron]

Maybe. But you would be starting from the front of the door.

So would you then step way off to the side by the bathroom entrance?

This would limit your angle of shots. And, no reason to do it, either.

There were a few places in that bathroom where she would have been protected.

I don't think it is necessary to be that far back in order to replicate the trajectories.

I'm not sure (and maybe I'm wrong), but I can't believe that ballistics can demonstrate with sufficient accuracy how far away from the door Pistorius was when he fired the bullets. (I'm willing to be surprised). For what I understand you to be saying my interpretation would be that the bullets' trajectory covers a series of lines approximately from the entrance to the bathroom all the way to the door itself.

These trajectories don't just factor in distance, but also height. A person firing from eye level at the entrance to the bathroom could well be replicated by someone firing from chest height closer to the door.

My understanding is incredibly limited in this regard, so I could be talking abject rubbish though.

 

[DebinGA]

Didn't Mangena's ballistic rods show that OP made an adjustment after shot A to line himself up better for shots B, C, and D? If so, that seems suspiciously like "thinking". I bet OP is tormented by what-ifs like, "After her screams stopped, why didn't I just shoot randomly until I emptied the chamber?"

 

[jay-jay]

well in that case, all bets are off.

But I see no reason to think Oscar is premeditating every step of this.

This girl adored him. She's gorgeous. What would be his motive to calculate a premeditated murder and think out all the steps?

And, even doing that, he will still probably get CH. He didn't think it out well enough.

So, OP had no reason to kill Reeva with intent, because she's gorgeous and she adored him? Is that really what you are saying? :facepalm:

 

[soozieqtips]

It is? why?

He's standing in front of the closed door of a small toilet wielding a gun with Black Talon bullets. The intruder can't come out without being seen by OP. The only scared person is the one locked behind the door being shot at. OP took the initiative and went charging towards the perceived danger. Once he was there, he held all the cards, so there was no reason for him to feel scared because he knew he was going to shoot. The toilet is very small and he knows he's going to be able to hit his 'unknown' target. Same can't be said for the invisible intruder/s because they have no idea where in the bathroom he is.

 

[molly333]

Not necessarily. He needed to lean against the wall for balance. He did so, at a slight angle to the door. That guarantees he can get bullets to the corner, in case she seeks to huddle for cover.

He also probably knew he had to use the intruder defense, before he shot her.

So lean against the wall opposite the door. Or closer to the door. For that matter put on your legs so you don't have to lean against walls.

Standing where he stood, there were places inside where he wouldn't have hit her had she been standing there.

 

[minor4th]

minor4th, look at the video again. The crack that runs through bullet hole D was caused by the door breaking open, not from the bat hitting the door? So in no way does there have to be a bat hit after the gunshots.

Listen to his testimony in context - the first thing he says is that it's his view that the gunshots were before the cricket bat hit the door. He doesn't say the gunshots were before he pried open the door with the cricket bat that he used several minutes earlier to make a hole in the door.

 

[jay-jay]

The comparison is with how loud not how long. It's much much louder than a jet engine taking off.

But the comparison doesn't work! (.. unless it's Dixon doing the comparing, that is .. )

 

[Gbtaketwo]

I don't think it is necessary to be that far back in order to replicate the trajectories.

I'm not sure (and maybe I'm wrong), but I can't believe that ballistics can demonstrate with sufficient accuracy how far away from the door Pistorius was when he fired the bullets. (I'm willing to be surprised). For what I understand you to be saying my interpretation would be that the bullets' trajectory covers a series of lines approximately from the entrance to the bathroom all the way to the door itself.

These trajectories don't just factor in distance, but also height. A person firing from eye level at the entrance to the bathroom could well be replicated by someone firing from chest height closer to the door.

My understanding is incredibly limited in this regard, so I could be talking abject rubbish though.

I think the state ballistic expert stated that he could have been no closer that 2ft but could have been as far back as the bathroom wall . He wasn't more specific than that. He also said at the end he could have been shooting from the hip .

 

[molly333]

He's standing in front of the closed door of a small toilet wielding a gun with Black Talon bullets. The intruder can't come out without being seen by OP. The only scared person is the one locked behind the door being shot at. OP took the initiative and went charging towards the perceived danger. Once he was there, he held all the cards, so there was no reason for him to feel scared because he knew he was going to shoot. The toilet is very small and he knows he's going to be able to hit his 'unknown' target. Same can't be said for the invisible intruder/s because they have no idea where in the bathroom he is.

He wasn't standing in front of the door. That's the whole point of what I'm saying.

 

[shane13]

Didn't Mangena's ballistic rods show that OP made an adjustment after shot A to line himself up better for shots B, C, and D? If so, that seems suspiciously like "thinking". I bet OP is tormented by what-ifs like, "After her screams stopped, why didn't I just shoot randomly until I emptied the chamber?"

Not emptying the magazine is also an integral part of what really happened.

 

[james83]

It is? why?

You use that to come to a conclusion that he was firing in fear instead of the fact that he claims he was on his stumps which he has balance issue's with, in the dark, with one hand on the wall, not aiming at the door but yet still managed to fire 4 shots that hit the door in close proximity to each other, is that believable?.

 

[patCee]

It's likely he knew when a bullet had hit her. Those bullets stop when they enter a soft, moist target. The one that missed hit the tile at one side of the toilet and the ricochet went to the other side of the room. That would have made a noise when it hit the tiles. The first one to hit her would have been quiet when it hit and given him the direction where to aim again.

 

[steveml]

Barry Bateman (SA court reporter) asked to settle twitter debate.

(see attachment)

https://twitter.com/barrybateman

 

[DebinGA]

I bet OP regrets now not using the "I was deaf" excuse for his call to NetCare in which he didn't say anything.