Trial Discussion Thread #59 - 14.21.10, Day 48 ~ sentencing~

[ColonelMustard]

Amazing how one second of maniacal, murderous RAGE can utterly transform one's idyllic life into a barren, unrecognizable landscape.

View attachment 61944

What is this? What are we looking at, here?

 

[RosieC]

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-29712728
BBC NEWS Africa
21 October 2014
Oscar Pistorius begins jail sentence for Reeva Steenkamp death

"...the Women's League of South Africa's ruling African National Congress said it did plan to appeal.
"We're doing this not only for Reeva but for the millions of South African women who are killed at the hands of their partners, people who are supposed to protect them," said spokeswoman Khsuela Sangoni.
"A five-year sentence like this sends a message to society that it is fine to commit such heinous crimes as femicide, and you will be able to get away with a slap on the wrist."

Can someone please explain to me how the ANC Women's League can appeal the sentence? And if they successfully appeal the sentence, not the verdict, it doesn't make it femicide. It makes it Culpable Homicide with a longer sentence. Thank you.

 

[ColonelMustard]

Wow. So much.

~rsbm~


The Steenkamps: While I feel sorry for them for the loss of their daughter, I also feel sorry that they have been okay with accepting money all this time from the Pistorius clan. And I wonder if the promise of ongoing money is some of the reason they are so "okay with" the sentencing.

GREAT post !!!

But re. money taken by Steenkamps pls have a look at Judge Greenlands opinion. I don't know if posted here or somewhere else before, but it is from his FB page apparently.


"An explanation by Judge Chris Greenland about the monthly payments.
The Steenkamps Accepting Money from Oscar Pistorius.
Nonsensical Hype.
It is really quite simple.
At that time the Steenkamps were inclined to mount a civil action for loss of support ... and there can be absolutely no doubt that their lawyer would have insisted on this.
When OP then tendered R6,000.00 per month, they had to make a decision.
I would have advised them, for very good legal reasons, to do exactly what they did .. i.e, accept the payments and give notice that these would be set off against whatever was awarded on the loss of support suit.
NOT accepting the payments would have embarrassed their claim that they were in need of support, that Reeva had been affording them.
It is the law that a parent has no case for loss of support unless the support is/was actually needed.
So refusing or returning the payments by OP would have been inconsistent with a claim that they were in need.
In short .. there is NOTHING wrong, peculiar or inconsistent about what they did.
In law, they really had little option,but to accept the payments until their loss of support claim was resolved in law.
It follows that now that they have decided not to pursue the loss of support claim they are returning the money as the acceptance of the money was on the basis that they were in need of support that Reeva had been affording them.
Their actions accords entirely with what any good lawyer would have insisted on.
Hope this clears all this silly hype up "

Thank so much for this!!

A question. Does money have had to come from the accused to prove loss of support? Can't they get money they need and don't have from someone/somewhere else and simply show the paperwork?

After all, not all those accused have money and not all of those who do offer it to the victims.

Plus, what is a loss of support claim for anyway? In the US you can be a billionaire and still bring a civil case against someone.

I just don't get it and must be missing something here.

 

[MsMarple]

This trial was never about Reeva – not to Oscar, not to his family, not to Roux, not to the Judge, not to the Assessors. If Gerrie Nel hadn't constantly reminded everybody that it was Reeva who lost everything, who was “broken” then she would have become just another nameless woman who suffered at the hands of someone who she thought loved her.

And I have no adequate words for the privileged, dysfunctional Pistorius clan. Clueless Carl and Oscar who swim merrily through life, leaving dead women in their wake.



https://twitter.com/carlpistorius/status/515853128747728897

 

[ColonelMustard]

IMO this was disrespectful by Judge Masipa towards Reeva, a reductionist view of her which diminished her achievements. Spurious comment from Judge Masipa which I hope will be scrutinized by her peers.

Have any bloggers or journalists focused on this (yet).

If not, that REALLY surprises me because it was more than inappropriate.

Surely someone, besides so many of us here, were offended by her characterization of Reeva.

 

[ColonelMustard]

Someone upthread asked what this meant:

"@carlpistorius : Buddy, your self righteousness or money wont save you @realDonaldTrump - time to consider eternity."


If it's a serious question, my feeling is that most, perhaps ALL, of what Carl tweets can best be understood through the lens of his Christian beliefs.

In this case, "Trump you better think twice. Right now, you're only interested in temporal, earthly things while, at your peril, you are ignoring/rejecting your soul. The latter will have greater and long-lasting (eternal) consequences."

Shorthand: Carl tweets: "WE'RE going to heaven. You're going to hell."

 

[jilly]

It won't work for the common man or woman. This sentence is for O.P. and I bet anyone else who attempted a similar crime would find themselves in prison for a longer period of time than the 10 months or so that O.P. will ultimately serve.

So long as Masipa retires. The Dept of Corrections or whatever they call themselves in SA have their own guidelines with a sentence. It was Masipa's reason for the Verdict that was haywire. I hope the NPA does appeal. What stands now, can't be a prescedent, imo.

 

[jilly]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...l-of-verdict-looks-a-possibility-9809293.html

Yeah. She split the difference. What a cop out.

 

[ColonelMustard]

Can someone please explain to me how the ANC Women's League can appeal the sentence? And if they successfully appeal the sentence, not the verdict, it doesn't make it femicide. It makes it Culpable Homicide with a longer sentence. Thank you.

I read an article somewhere online after the verdict that said they formally supported an appeal.

 

[jilly]

Someone upthread asked what this meant:

"@carlpistorius : Buddy, your self righteousness or money wont save you @realDonaldTrump - time to consider eternity."


If it's a serious question, my feeling is that most, perhaps ALL, of what Carl tweets can best be understood through the lens of his Christian beliefs.

In this case, "Trump you better think twice. Right now, you're only interested in temporal, earthly things while, at your peril, you are ignoring/rejecting your soul. The latter will have greater and long-lasting (eternal) consequences."

Shorthand: Carl tweets: "WE'RE going to heaven. You're going to hell."

Ummmm.....Hippocrites comes to mind. That family is so full of themselves.

 

[ColonelMustard]

IF it's really the (a) driving force in all of this, I cannot for the LIFE of me figure out how Masipa could POSSIBLY have believed anything OP had to say.

I'm 100% naive and even I "got it".

It's like a couple of dinosaurs watching the gigantic asteroid that's going to extinguish their species heading straight for them at a billion miles an hour, when one of them (Masipa) says, "Look at that beautiful shooting star!" :star::fireworks:

 

[jilly]

Have any bloggers or journalists focused on this (yet).

If not, that REALLY surprises me because it was more than inappropriate.

Surely someone, besides so many of us here, were offended by her characterization of Reeva.

In fairness, Masipa did say a bit more than what I read posted here:

.....Masipa described her as “young, vivacious and full of life … a promising young woman who cared deeply for family, who was full of hope for the future, and lived life to the full......”

http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...rt-sentence-oscar-pistorius-jailed-five-years

 

[ColonelMustard]

Originally Posted by ColonelMustard
Someone upthread asked what this meant:

"@carlpistorius : Buddy, your self righteousness or money wont save you @realDonaldTrump - time to consider eternity."


If it's a serious question, my feeling is that most, perhaps ALL, of what Carl tweets can best be understood through the lens of his Christian beliefs.

In this case, "Trump you better think twice. Right now, you're only interested in temporal, earthly things while, at your peril, you are ignoring/rejecting your soul. The latter will have greater and long-lasting (eternal) consequences."

Shorthand: Carl tweets: "WE'RE going to heaven. You're going to hell."

Ummmm.....Hippocrates comes to mind. That family is so full of themselves.

If you mean "hypocrisy," that's SO cute, Jilly! :daisy:


(Hippocrates was the Greek "father of medicine.")

 

[jilly]

IF it's really the (a) driving force in all of this, I cannot for the LIFE of me figure out how Masipa could POSSIBLY have believed anything OP had to say.

I'm 100% naive and even I "got it".

It's like a couple of dinosaurs watching the gigantic asteroid that's going to extinguish their species heading straight for them at a billion miles an hour, when one of them (Masipa) says, "Look at that beautiful shooting star!"

I don't know if she believed him. In this case she seemed to be all about rehabilitation because of what Oscar was. From the wrist slap she gave, I think she held her nose when she gave this sentence.
She managed to misinterpret the evidence to fit her verdict and uttered almost the minimum for sentence.

 

[jilly]

Originally Posted by ColonelMustard
Someone upthread asked what this meant:

"@carlpistorius : Buddy, your self righteousness or money wont save you @realDonaldTrump - time to consider eternity."


If it's a serious question, my feeling is that most, perhaps ALL, of what Carl tweets can best be understood through the lens of his Christian beliefs.

In this case, "Trump you better think twice. Right now, you're only interested in temporal, earthly things while, at your peril, you are ignoring/rejecting your soul. The latter will have greater and long-lasting (eternal) consequences."

Shorthand: Carl tweets: "WE'RE going to heaven. You're going to hell."




If you mean "hypocrisy," that's SO cute, Jilly! :daisy:


(Hippocrates was the Greek "father of medicine.")

Gotta be on your toes around here!

Ok, lol.........I'll fess up............I never won a spelling bee. What I meant to say/spell was :drumroll:....... hypocrites!

 

[Greater Than]

Someone upthread asked what this meant:

"@carlpistorius : Buddy, your self righteousness or money wont save you @realDonaldTrump - time to consider eternity."


If it's a serious question, my feeling is that most, perhaps ALL, of what Carl tweets can best be understood through the lens of his Christian beliefs.

In this case, "Trump you better think twice. Right now, you're only interested in temporal, earthly things while, at your peril, you are ignoring/rejecting your soul. The latter will have greater and long-lasting (eternal) consequences."

Shorthand: Carl tweets: "WE'RE going to heaven. You're going to hell."

I'm no Donald Trump fan, but if Carl attempts to criticize every celebrity who has tweeted their outrage regarding this sentence, he is going to be one very busy man.

Rhea Durham (model and wife of Mark Wahlberg) is just one of many who weighed in. And FWIW, she tweets bible quotes almost as often as the Pistorius clan do.

@rheadur: Oscar Pistorius gets 5yrs?!?! WTF??? Maybe when he gets out he can date Casey Anthony......

 

[Estelle]

On October 14 2014, the ANCWL were already eying an appeal

They are going to apply to be a "friend of the court" if an appeal in the OP case goes ahead.

On Monday, the league's president Angie Motshekga had a meeting with the National Prosecuting Authority to express her organisation's desire for an appeal in the matter.
She said that, if, in a possible appeal, the ANCWL was granted the status of a friend of the court, it would collaborate with the Progressive Womens' Movement, and even possibly the ANC Youth League, to appoint a legal representative. If we are awarded the opportunity, we are lawmakers and in the ruling party, 1/8 and can thus 3/8 question the issue of culpable homicide. As a friend of the court, Mofokeng said the ANCWL's unhappiness with the legal understanding of culpable homicide could be raised by its representative. The ANCWL wanted to investigate the issues of law that had affected cases like the OP one.

In terms of the law, a person or group not directly connected to a case can apply for the position of amicus curiae - a friend of the court - if they feel their interests or knowledge are relevant to proceedings. She said that the league believed that culpable homicide should be graded according to degrees of severity, as otherwise it covered such a broad range of actions, that “we don't know where it stops”.

http://www.sabreakingnews.co.za/2014/10/21/anc-womens-league-to-appeal-oscar-judgment/

 

[vansleuths]

Somebody said on Sky News that inmates are locked in their cells for 23 hours a day? I can't see that happening with OP. There's a gym in the hospital wing, so I'm sure he'll want to use that to stay in some sort of physical shape, even though his career is over. And how will he manage if he's confined for 23 hours? I'm wondering about his psychological state if he doesn't interact with anyone except for an hour each day. Will Uncle Arnold be able to negotiate more outside time for him? I think OP would go stir crazy locked up for 23 hours a day in his cell. And before anyone asks, no, I'm not feeling sorry for him!! I'm just curious as to if the 23 hour rule would apply to him, or whether his family would argue his 'vulnerability' and 'mental issues' means he can't be confined like 'normal' prisoners.

BIB I know this won't go over very well on this forum, but I do feel sorry for Oscar. 23 hours a day in solitary confinement would be brutal for anyone and for someone like OP who is always around people, I would think this would be a living hell. He will eventually come out of prison and I would think this would just destroy his psyche.

One thing to keep in mind however is this is something that he chose because he didn't want to be with the general population.

 

[vansleuths]

~rsbm~

I was watching Sam Taylor's mum being interviewed earlier on the news and she was saying how she had to provide a massive amount of emotional support for him, especially when he went to the 2012 Olympics and he spoke to her just before he was meant to travel to London and was in tears saying he didn't want to go .. and she had to coax him to get in the taxi and then be on the phone to him constantly on the way to getting onto the plane, just to help him actually do it. What a freakin wuss .. jeeez!!!

BIB Why didn't he want to go? Can I surmise that he was feeling the stress to perform and succeed? With thousands in attendance and millions watching around the world, wouldn't that be understandable? I can only imagine that there are a lot of Olympians that have secrets in their closets, it's just that OP's were revealed because of this trial.

 

[Estelle]

Remember this? March 5, 2014

The third state witness in the Oscar Pistorius murder trial, Charl Johnson, received a voicemail from a person who accused him of lying to the court. This after Johnson’s cellphone number was read out in court on Tuesday.

“My privacy had been compromised severely,” Johnson told the court on Wednesday morning.

http://www.sabreakingnews.co.za/201...ives-threats-after-cell-no-read-out-in-court/

One caller accused Johnson of lying to the court because Pistorius was not guilty of murder.