TRIAL OF CHAD DAYBELL CHARGED WITH MURDER OF JJ VALLOW, TYLEE RYAN AND TAMMY DAYBELL #5

[Love Never Fails]

Yes, over the top frenzied stabbings and blunt force trauma and fire.

Who hates young women? And in particular that young woman.

Lori, Alex and Chad. They all have reasons.

Lori didn’t kill Tylee. That would have been a struggle unless she got help. But she likely killed JJ with help.
I don’t believe Alex would attack her pelvic area. That’s sadistic and he loved her for most of her life. He would have thought he was killing a zombie. But why the overkill?

Then again, shooting Charles twice was overkill when the first shot killed him. Still, he loved Tylee. JMO.

 

[nodamselindistress]

Chad did it to Tylee I am sure.

 

[Kemug]

It's possible that having been a gravedigger made Chad more comfortable with death. And made him think more about it.

 

[Kemug]

I just can't fathom him having control over anyone. He's got the personality of a tree stump.

We tree stumps object strongly to being compared to Chad Daybell. You will be hearing from our lawyers.

 

[mickey2942]

I have a suspicion that Tylee was a victim of Munchousen by Proxy. The reason I say this, is that she was always ill, with pancreatitis (?), people have mentioned this. She had been pulled out of school, and I may be guessing here, but that was to support LVD pursuing disability for Tylee, so she would not "age out" of Joe Ryan's Social Security at age 18.

Thus, continuing to receive Social Security under him, as a disabled adult "child'. Unemployable.
Although, Tylee did have a job, apparently.

That way, LVD would continue to receive her money.

 

[Ruminations]

Chad told his brother in law (testimony from last week) that his kids keep secrets well.
We don’t know that Garth didn’t lie to the grand jury. I can’t imagine the prosecution asking one of his kids to testify and then John Prior twisting them to make them change their mind, likely coached from Chad. It’s a huge risk. IMO

I think there is a decent chance Garth lied for the grand jury-and an even better chance he left stuff out.

If Garth testifies and it is not the same, the defense can jump all over that to call his credibility into question. But...to what end when Garth was supposed to be one of the defense's witnesses? I think the jury will intuit Garth was in denial and/or under a Chads spell during the grand jury testimony and is more accepting of facts or less under a spell now. As for risk of perjury charges, he should talk to his lawyer, but I think the risk is higher for lying twice, since the facts are very compelling and the lies will be caught. I don't see Garth getting away with substantial lies. He could get away with matters of opinion, like his mother seemed tired to him, etc.

I think Garth, in discussion with a real attorney, might conclude that there is bigger risk in listening to Chad and risking perjury, even if he already has perjured himself before the grand jury. IANAL.

MOO

 

[887sMtreme]

It's possible that having been a gravedigger made Chad more comfortable with death. And made him think more about it.

So many thousands of hospice workers, morticians, grave-diggers, medical examiners, and others who deal with death all the time — yet so few sadistic serial killers among them. It’s something else.

 

[Ruminations]

I have a suspicion that Tylee was a victim of Munchousen by Proxy. The reason I say this, is that she was always ill, with pancreatitis (?), people have mentioned this. She had been pulled out of school, and I may be guessing here, but that was to support LVD pursuing disability for Tylee, so she would not "age out" of Joe Ryan's Social Security at age 18.

Thus, continuing to receive Social Security under him, as a disabled adult "child'. Unemployable.
Although, Tylee did have a job, apparently.

That way, LVD would continue to receive her money.

I agree that Lori likely made Tylee ill for the attention until she had JJ who was ready-made special needs. She got warm fuzzies for being a great mom at Tylee's bedside than with JJ's needs.

Until she got into Julie Row and portals and stuff, she was primarily engaged with playing the perfect mom and primary president.

But I don't see any reason to believe Lori was planning any kind of disability claim for Tylee.

MOO

 

[Kemug]

So many thousands of hospice workers, morticians, grave-diggers, medical examiners, and others who deal with death all the time — yet so few sadistic serial killers among them. It’s something else.

Perhaps it just lit a spark in Chad, to something that was already there.

 

[Lori kennedy]

Can someone give me the site where I can watch the video of them walking around the geyser at Yellowstone? I saw it last week I think during Tricias live on yt. It shows Lori amd Alex walking way ahead probably hoping JJ would fall in a geyser.

 

[GRT]

Chad did it to Tylee I am sure.

I think Alex did, but I think he did it at Chad's behest. I think the two of them took part in the macabre' burning/hacking stuff. I just feel as though Alex was so inundated in the cult-think that he truly believed he was doing what was right.

I also think they off'd Alex. That's just way too convenient by far. But, no evidence.

Chad is evil. Chad is the base of all of it. His poorly written books and disgusting loin fire fantasies are a sidenote. The man is pure evil. Plus, he might be the ugliest man I've ever seen.

 

[Artis]

I keep asking myself who is going to be the final witness for the state? Samantha Gwilliam would have been perfect and the only way to get better than that is ONE OF TAMMY's kids! Well, that is in my head now, has been all weekend ever since Samantha testified.

So I really love your speculation! I keep trying to figure out which one of them and I do not believe Emma so that leaves Garth or Seth or Leah. I remember way back when one of the sons said something along the lines of "my dad is a good guy he just does dumb things sometimes" in response to CD marrying LV so quickly. I can't recall which of the sons said it,but he would be my guess.

I just finished watching Samantha. Poor woman You can tell she's hurting and angry. Prior simply doesn't have squat and cross examination is almost pointless. When he was pressing her about what animals were buried in the pet cemetery, it seemed like he was hoping to imply that the two human beings buried in that yard might really be animals. Was that what he was doing with that line of questioning? And, why is that room over the garage so important to him? The only thing I can think is that he's going to try place Alex there - unbeknownst to Chad - and responsible for the kids being buried there.

 

[Artis]

And yet, the control is intensely effective. Just look at how programmed Emma was in the police car. Look how programmed the 5 kids were on 48 hours.

His Schtick was being a humble mumbling prophet that only a few understood. His act was. "Look, I'm not a handsome smooth talker or anything, so it must not be vanity making me think I'm a prophet. I just am."

MOO

Yeah, I don't know on that. I think his kids find it impossible to believe something so awful about their dad, which seems normal, to me.

I hate to use this word but Chad, Lori and Alex all coming together just seemed more a perfect storm of psychopathic chemistry where they all inspired each other in their madness.

 

[MySharoanah]

Exclusive 3D model offers unique view of Daybell crime scene


Applying evidence to 3D model of Chad Daybell's property

The last few days of testimony have shown still photos of CD’s property. Our very talented @vislaw has made 3D models of these areas in conjunction with the Cold Podcast team.

These are older articles with imbedded videos, but they are timely considering the recent testimonies. It’s interesting to view the house and “pasture” with dimension. If you haven’t seen these, they are worth watching.

 

[Artis]

My perception is that Emma and Seth are the most thoroughly indoctrinated. Garth was a grand jury witness. We don't know what he said there. But we do know he was willing to split from Chad a bit to be Tammy's lookout for when she wasn't following orders. Leah had defended Chad vigorously in the past, but she lives far away. She also (my opinion only) seemed the most capable of honestly expressing emotions on the 48 hours interview. That whole family is so flat....it's obviously an expectation NOT to express emotions. But Leah emoted even back in that 48 hours interview. If she feels real feelings, it would be harder to ignore facts that illicit feelings, IMO.

I don't have a take on the youngest.

So I think the best potential for explicitly inculpating testimony is from Garth and Leah. Possibly, Garth's statements may have evolved over time, and he may have the Audrey problem, as he was a grand jury witness.

MOO

What is the Audrey problem? Was Audrey Lori's friend who met up with her in Hawaii? Sorry, it's been a long time since saw all that and have forgotten some of the names.

 

[Artis]

The thing is, very intelligent people get caught up in cults and are put under coercive control.

I'm not willing to discount the low IQ theory wholesale for all of these players, but in fairness, the trauma they have experienced does dull the cerebral reflexes. Some may seem brighter and brighter as they deprogram.

But I do not for a moment think you have to be dull witting to be manipulated, indoctrinated, or controlled. That narrative can turn into blaming the victim.

One more thing: Victimhood does not excuse bad behavior. I'm not making an excuse for anyone under Chad's control for their actions. Please don't flame me.

MOO

What trauma are you talking about - being raised Mormons?

 

[Artis]

I saw that as well. Would he laugh if his kids were in the court room? Did his mom or brother attend today? Definitely not embarrassed. I guess that is one way to dismiss it as not important - both he and his attorney brush it off and it is just a joke?

I really can't tell if that's a smirk because he has a naturally dorky look on his face.

 

[Artis]

Agreed. This was limited to CD's followers, none of whom had professional degrees, and, INMO, based on their testimonies, they did not appear to be MENSA candidates. Forgive me if this is judgemental. Nor do I see them as "victims". JJ and Tylee are the victims here.

Cult mentality requires someone be highly suggestible and I don't think IQ or education factor into that. I know some very intelligent people who were in a cult. Ironically, it was also a spinoff from LDS, which is weird because I live in a place where there are no Mormons.

 

[Artis]

Alex and Charles reportedly got along well before all this started. Alex also asked Lori before killing Charles if zombie possessions were reversible, like he wanted to make sure there was no other way.
Lori and Charles were arguing about their lack of finances and interestingly so were Tammy and Chad. Money was a big motivator in this case.

Alex seemed to be under Lori's control in that he adored her and would do anything she wanted. He became her personal hitman.

 

[Artis]

No worries. The kids are not subject to the exclusionary rule. They could sit in the gallery for the entire trial if they wanted, and still testify.

Like Kay and Samantha, for example.

MOO

Edit: Clearer word order

What is the criteria for whether or not a witness is subject to that rule?