TRIAL OF CHAD DAYBELL CHARGED WITH MURDER OF JJ VALLOW, TYLEE RYAN AND TAMMY DAYBELL #5

[mickey2942]

I know that Tammy's heart is probably breaking if her children are divided amongst each other. As a parent, you always want siblings to be "family". To be able to be there for each other. It doesn't always happen.

After all, we know what Chad's brother thinks about Chad.

 

[Artis]

I can’t help but wonder what Lori’s reaction will be if she is told Chad was found guilty, and even more so if she is told he got the death penalty.

At first I can imagine her anger that Chad messed up more than Alex did. And the shock when she realizes he is not a god nor a prophet and that she is no goddess.

Then I can imagine a complete mental breakdown when she realizes she murdered her children for NOTHING. And was responsible for the deaths of Charles and Tammy and Alex.

She's never gonna have such realizations. She's both bat**** crazy and she has no conscience. She'll always miss Hawaii, though.

 

[Pruddennce]

On the jailhouse call Lori says to Chad that, looking back, there are things she could have done to have reduced the risks to the 'plan', but they weren't made aware of the extent of the risks in the blueprints. (Seems like a jab at Chad to me.)

Chad replies that he is thinking of previous 'blueprints' where the people weren't warned either.
(I guess the information he received from beyond the veil wasn't perfect. What kind of prophet is he anyway?)

yes, IMO, LV was being critical, IOW, 'would have been reallllllllllllllly helpful if you would have been able to KNOW all of this in advance'....then listening to him trying to explain to her WHY....OMG, these two....all the while trying to communicate in code....it would be laughable if the children and Tammy's deaths werent at the center of this exchange...

 

[Pruddennce]

I guess Chad had a slight reception problem.

probably...or was it the 'cone of silence'?....and he had to just make stuff up?

 

[Love Never Fails]

Ok, a condensed version of my prior post is that ever since Tammy's sister testified I have been trying to figure out who will be the final witness. I felt like her testimony was so very powerful and would have been a great final witness, bringing home how much she and Tammy had planned for the future.

IMHO the only one who could come close is one of Tammy's children. We had several posts going back and forth amongst several of us and decided Garth was the most likely.

We don't have long to wait now, we shall see tomorrow!

I am anxious and don’t want to miss it.

If one of Chads’ kids testified, that might do a lot to hurt the defense, no doubt. What could Prior do but try to destroy him/her? I believe Chad would be okay with Prior doing that, as he would claim him/her to be “dark”. But if he raised them all to believe he is a prophet and what he says goes, I am not sure any of them would sway from that.

I was thinking back to the two jurors from Lori’s trial. Nate Eaton interviewed them both. IIRC, neither said much, if anything, about Lori’s son testifying or how it helped them determine her guilt. They did talk a lot about Lori’s attitude in trial and the autopsies.

 

[lightofmine99]

She'll always miss Hawaii, though.

"We'll always have Paris Hawaii."

Wow, I'm really not liking this modern remake of Casablanca.

 

[Ruminations]

Anyone want to speculate as to whom this will be?

Garth

I hope

Moo

 

[Pruddennce]

I think if that happens, she'll remain convinced it will turn out fine until they pronounce him. And even then, I think she'll come up with a way for him to be the Second Coming and fling open the prison gates to release her.

She's never going to let go of her delusions, IMO. They make her too happy. She's a goddess, she's a warrior, she's Jesus's chosen one, with her soulmate through the lives by her side. Everything she does is absolutely fine, because 'it doesn't count for her', because she's already as exalted as she can be.

Who is she without it? A washed up, aging hair stylist with five failed marriages who committed adultery for a loser who mooched off his wife and wrote apocalypse fan fiction, and who murdered her children for no good reason and no lasting benefit. Who would want to be her?

MOO

IMO, I agree. she will be unfazed. portals, there's that. there will be tons of men writing her...and him. murderers have fans.

 

[Teche]

June 8, 2020 phone call, was significant. June 9th was the date they got the search warrant for CD's house and yard.

Starting at 6:04. Technical difficulties, AGAIN!

The conversation is all about the world ending. (Absolutely cray cray that this is a supposedly "normal" conversation between adults, sounds like a trashy B Hollywood movie with Godzilla).

Poor Godzilla or as my now 15-year-old grandson called him, Godzillo.

 

[Pruddennce]

I have a theory about LV going to Hawaii prior to Tammy's murder. It is my impression that Chad Daybell wasn't moving fast enough to get rid of Tammy. She went to Hawaii on the notion that, "absence makes the heart grow fonder" (or, more relevant: "absence makes the loin fires burn hotter"). Am I off-base here?

no, not off base, IMO. between all the loin fires, 'the angels are angry'....a quarrel captured in text in Aug 2019.....Charles is shot dead in July, and now IMO she's impatient about Tammy...as the article states, they manipulate each other....

'Angels are angry': FBI agent describes 'manipulating' texts between Lori and Chad Daybell

Jurors in the Chad Daybell murder trial heard testimony Monday from Lori Daybell's son, from the husband of her best friend, and from an FBI agent who analyzed text messages.

www.ksl.com

 

[Artis]

Especially not when her whole belief system revolves around the idea of being persecuted by outside forces. All of this is just reinforcing that, confirming it's true to her.

They had an only 3% chance of things going badly, so when things swung to 100% on her arrest, it was because the forces of darkness were against them, not because the plan sucked and they acted the opposite of how they should have to avoid suspicion throughout the whole horrendous course, from flirting over Chad's book stall all the way to him fleeing the police as they dug up the kids from his backyard.

It's never that the plan was as transparent and foolish as it was diabolical and selfish and cruel. It's always the fault of outside forces, because their plan was perfect and sanctioned by heaven itself.

MOO

If Chad gets the death penalty she'll probably make that into a divine sacrifice.

 

[nodamselindistress]

If Chad gets the death penalty she'll probably make that into a divine sacrifice.

Doesn't count, they'll both be back in the next life!

 

[wnk]

The prison phone call between CD & LVD on 8 Jun 2020 starts HERE (1:17:35)

Some notes from my second listen-through.

• Starts off with LVD reading some scripture to CD
• CD: "They're doing all they can to destroy one of the key families, but they're not going to."
• LVD asks about CD texting "Ray" [Alex] (who has already passed away at this point) - for some reason, LVD doesn't seem to be able to contact him herself, but CD can?
• (1:22:11)
  LVD: He doesn't know his own project timeline? (giggling)
  CD: He said stick with it.
• Followed by some random talk about how construction projects always take a long time, including an off-hand remark by LVD about pool contractors not knowing what they'll find when they dig up people's yards
• (1:24:15)
  LVD: The blueprints are still intact?
  CD: Yes.
• CD says "Ray" is optimistic, but CD kind of wants to "go visit him and grab him by the throat and say, really?" (so they're blaming AC for them getting caught?)
• (1:25:45)
  LVD: Can he just make us any guarantees? I mean, we did make our down-payments and... (giggles)
• CD deflects this question by talking about how "Ray" likes the video (witness believes it is the video Summer Shiflet made for Alex); they chat for a bit about the music used.
• (1:28:20)
  LVD: So he would still answer all my questions in the same way? [unintelligible]
  CD: Um, I think you ought to write down some questions for him. You can mail them off and see what happens. If he'll respond to you. I have no doubt... don't forget [LDS] President Holland's talk.
• CD then gives LVD some vague reassurances, followed by some mumbly-giggling parts I can't understand.
• (1:30:30)
  LVD: Remind him when you do text him that (Obviously they switch to talking about someone else here bc later LVD wants "Ray" to punch "the 3%er person," which implies that's not AC.), at the beginning of this project, he said there was only like a 3% chance that there would be trouble from certain aspects, and then it's like 100% trouble. That's where it all started. (giggles)
  CD: Uh-huh (giggles)
  LVD: So, see what he has to say for himself on that issue. And you know exactly what I'm talking about. (giggles)
  CD: I do.
• (1:32:56)
  LVD: I want to know why that is 100% instead of 3% chance of having a problem. (giggles)
  CD: (giggles) I think you are somewhat right in that the other aspect with other people... it was a combination.
  LVD: So it was a combination? [unintelligible, clears throat] What I'm saying is... that... It's a combination of only, you know, five problems.
  CD: I agree.
• LVD talks about beggars not being choosers, not being able to "pick the colors" or being able to be in charge of the project bc she's in jail, CD give her some vague reassurances
• LVD asks if it was "meant to have complications" and "go that direction"? and CD says yes.
• CD said they had sensed they shouldn't take it lightly, and that he doesn't think they did; they only discussed the matter with "the trouble" once and then "cut it off" and did well.
• LVD says there are things that she could have done or been inspired to do that could avoid issues... but they weren't made aware of them. She asks him again if it was "meant to go this way" and he says yes. "Overall, this was part of the blueprint." He wishes it hadn't been, but he can think of of "previous blueprints" where people weren't warned, either.
• CD says "Ray" is in the contractor position for a reason and won't drop them for another project. LVD wants him to forcibly punch people in the face to get things done... like the 3%er person. CD replies that he doesn't think he wants to be violent. LVD says it's just to get their attention.
• Then CD gets all mumbly again and I can't follow what he's saying. It sounds something like: "What he did is kind of mute her... kept her in her place for quite awhile to the point that it almost diffused any value." LVD protests that she doesn't want to talk about that.
• LVD asks for reassurance. CD said that's what "he" said. LVD says she needs to hear it from him (CD), every day.
• CD: "It's a marvelous plan... it's been shown to me..."

 

[Spartygirl]

Prior massacred another name: Zoo-Limb-a

Curious minds want to know---
How's that Ikea dresser and is it put together yet ?? LMAO

Please send me the 3 Martini drinks at lunch break-- I am in need of them.

Yes-- Prior is such a dim wit. While I think he is doing everything possible that HE can do to defend Chud, he still comes across as aggressive, bumbling, shame blaming MG and DW and is still pondering if HIS house has an upstairs and how many acres it has.

 

[indicolite22]

• Starts off with LVD reading some scripture to CD
• CD: "They're doing all they can to destroy one of the key families, but they're not going to."

SBM. I think he was referring to himself and Lori being a key family in the second coming and dark forces (LE) going after them.

• LVD asks about CD texting "Ray" [Alex] (who has already passed away at this point) - for some reason, LVD doesn't seem to be able to contact him herself, but CD can?
• (1:22:11)
  LVD: He doesn't know his own project timeline? (giggling)
  CD: He said stick with it.

IMO in this instance Ray was a metaphor for Chad who was advising Lori to stick to their plan and not give in to the pressure.

• Followed by some random talk about how construction projects always take a long time, including an off-hand remark by LVD about pool contractors not knowing what they'll find when they dig up people's yards

They were either worried about other people digging or acknowledging that putting a manufactured home over the graves would require some digging.

• (1:24:15)
  LVD: The blueprints are still intact?
  CD: Yes.

"Are we still on course?" Or perhaps the bodies are the blueprints here.

• CD says "Ray" is optimistic, but CD kind of wants to "go visit him and grab him by the throat and say, really?" (so they're blaming AC for them getting caught?)

Yes. Alex went from helper to scapegoat.

• (1:30:30)
  LVD: Remind him when you do text him that (Obviously they switch to talking about someone else here bc later LVD wants "Ray" to punch "the 3%er person," which implies that's not AC.), at the beginning of this project, he said there was only like a 3% chance that there would be trouble from certain aspects, and then it's like 100% trouble. That's where it all started. (giggles)

"He said", meaning Chad again (IMO). Perhaps Lori wanted Chad to off someone while she sat in jail.

• (1:32:56)
  LVD: I want to know why that is 100% instead of 3% chance of having a problem. (giggles)

"Tell me why couldn't we get away with it like you promised?"

• CD: (giggles) I think you are somewhat right in that the other aspect with other people... it was a combination.

"Dark people have agency. That's the explanation."

• LVD: So it was a combination? [unintelligible, clears throat] What I'm saying is... that... It's a combination of only, you know, five problems.

"I know exactly which five dark entities your are talking about."

 

[fred&edna]

One can always put those clever name-callers from the sub basement on ignore. And, if WS is on a significantly higher discourse level, well, I assume the mods can be notified of those horrible name-callers and their posts deleted.

Chad Daybell is a conspiring, manipulating killer... calling him names is really too good for him.

JMO

 

[aafromaa]

Garth

I hope

Moo

I’ve been hoping the same thing. Garth is the oldest of the Daybell siblings and was in the home the night his mother died. I thought they might call him about finding TD but also wondered if they were just trying to spare him from being part of the case against his dad. But if I could choose the ending of the state’s case, it would be Garth with his blinders removed.

I know that in the 2022 48 Hours program that he and his siblings were defending CD and some have suggested he might have been saying what CD told him to on the night TD died - I don’t share that idea but do think that he wasn’t facing facts and was buying CD’s act that night and could not fathom his dad having anything to do with any of the murders or even that Tammy’s was murdered.

But wouldn’t it be awesome if he has changed his mind about some of it in the past couple of years? He said on that program that he thinks of it every day - not sure that “it” referred to the night TD died or the remains being found on CD’s property or the whole situation - but I suspect he has continued to think of it every day and that he has watched much if not all of this trial. What if he is ready to stand up to his other siblings and say wake up…dad did this. Wouldn’t that be great? I cannot imagine a more appropriate thing for CD than for his oldest child - his son - to be the final witness against him in the state’s case.

Well, I can dream, can’t I?

 

[Artis]

The prison phone call between CD & LVD on 8 Jun 2020 starts HERE (1:17:35)

Some notes from my second listen-through.

• Starts off with LVD reading some scripture to CD
• CD: "They're doing all they can to destroy one of the key families, but they're not going to."
• LVD asks about CD texting "Ray" [Alex] (who has already passed away at this point) - for some reason, LVD doesn't seem to be able to contact him herself, but CD can?
• (1:22:11)
  LVD: He doesn't know his own project timeline? (giggling)
  CD: He said stick with it.
• Followed by some random talk about how construction projects always take a long time, including an off-hand remark by LVD about pool contractors not knowing what they'll find when they dig up people's yards
• (1:24:15)
  LVD: The blueprints are still intact?
  CD: Yes.
• CD says "Ray" is optimistic, but CD kind of wants to "go visit him and grab him by the throat and say, really?" (so they're blaming AC for them getting caught?)
• (1:25:45)
  LVD: Can he just make us any guarantees? I mean, we did make our down-payments and... (giggles)
• CD deflects this question by talking about how "Ray" likes the video (witness believes it is the video Summer Shiflet made for Alex); they chat for a bit about the music used.
• (1:28:20)
  LVD: So he would still answer all my questions in the same way? [unintelligible]
  CD: Um, I think you ought to write down some questions for him. You can mail them off and see what happens. If he'll respond to you. I have no doubt... don't forget [LDS] President Holland's talk.
• CD then gives LVD some vague reassurances, followed by some mumbly-giggling parts I can't understand.
• (1:30:30)
  LVD: Remind him when you do text him that (Obviously they switch to talking about someone else here bc later LVD wants "Ray" to punch "the 3%er person," which implies that's not AC.), at the beginning of this project, he said there was only like a 3% chance that there would be trouble from certain aspects, and then it's like 100% trouble. That's where it all started. (giggles)
  CD: Uh-huh (giggles)
  LVD: So, see what he has to say for himself on that issue. And you know exactly what I'm talking about. (giggles)
  CD: I do.
• (1:32:56)
  LVD: I want to know why that is 100% instead of 3% chance of having a problem. (giggles)
  CD: (giggles) I think you are somewhat right in that the other aspect with other people... it was a combination.
  LVD: So it was a combination? [unintelligible, clears throat] What I'm saying is... that... It's a combination of only, you know, five problems.
  CD: I agree.
• LVD talks about beggars not being choosers, not being able to "pick the colors" or being able to be in charge of the project bc she's in jail, CD give her some vague reassurances
• LVD asks if it was "meant to have complications" and "go that direction"? and CD says yes.
• CD said they had sensed they shouldn't take it lightly, and that he doesn't think they did; they only discussed the matter with "the trouble" once and then "cut it off" and did well.
• LVD says there are things that she could have done or been inspired to do that could avoid issues... but they weren't made aware of them. She asks him again if it was "meant to go this way" and he says yes. "Overall, this was part of the blueprint." He wishes it hadn't been, but he can think of of "previous blueprints" where people weren't warned, either.
• CD says "Ray" is in the contractor position for a reason and won't drop them for another project. LVD wants him to forcibly punch people in the face to get things done... like the 3%er person. CD replies that he doesn't think he wants to be violent. LVD says it's just to get their attention.
• Then CD gets all mumbly again and I can't follow what he's saying. It sounds something like: "What he did is kind of mute her... kept her in her place for quite awhile to the point that it almost diffused any value." LVD protests that she doesn't want to talk about that.
• LVD asks for reassurance. CD said that's what "he" said. LVD says she needs to hear it from him (CD), every day.
• CD: "It's a marvelous plan... it's been shown to me..."

Here's the conversation uploaded with the closed caption (CC) option for those, like myself, who have trouble making out what's being said:

 

[longtimereader]

In the guessing game of the last witness, what evidence was not covered completely by the previous witnesses? I have seen a few guess Garth. He was a witness to one of the deaths. Maybe not a popular opinion, but I hope that the kids don't have to testify. I think they are victims of spiritual abuse and emotional abuse and they lost their mom at the hands of their dad. Their family is destroyed. Their dad is scary. The family members that have testified describe family parties, cousins growing up together. I am sure they were trying their best by calling part of the house that they probably didn't want to move to as the Cozy Cone. Ok, back to my original question: What evidence (or specific charge) is needed to prove Chad is guilty that needs another witness?

 

[Spartygirl]

I have a theory about LV going to Hawaii prior to Tammy's murder. It is my impression that Chad Daybell wasn't moving fast enough to get rid of Tammy. She went to Hawaii on the notion that, "absence makes the heart grow fonder" (or, more relevant: "absence makes the loin fires burn hotter"). Am I off-base here?

No-- not off base and I have thought the same thing.
and per LVD trial she texted Chud this
9:00 a.m.: Former FBI Special Agent Doug Hart is on the stand.
He reads texts from Chad Daybell to Lori Vallow on July 15, 2019, where Chad Daybell tells her she is his best friend, he cannot live without her and his love for her is "overflowing."

Lori Vallow responds, "And yet... You are. So sad."
11:10 a.m.: Chad Daybell and Lori Vallow get in some kind of fight around Aug. 8, 2019. She begins to ignore him, so he texts her multiple times throughout the day.
“The angels are angry you are ignoring me… I’m not trying to manipulate you to respond, I understand you need your space... But the protection I built around your house is gone. I love you and don’t want you getting attacked," Chad Daybell texts her.
She did the guilt trip on him IMO

also of interest is the 3% in this article referring to JJ and Tammy

Lori Vallow replies, "What is the percentage now? What about JJ’s too?"
"Tammy is at 3, JJ is at 2. Both are being heavily shielded to stop intruders," Chad Daybell texts back.
Lori Vallow then asks, "2 and 3 percent ? Not zero?" Chad Daybell says he will explain later. Lori Vallow tells him, "Ok. Still feeling hot for you."
10:08 a.m.: On July 29, 2019, during a trip to California that Lori Vallow took with her niece Melani Pawlowski, Pawlowski's children and JJ Vallow, Chad Daybell texts Lori Vallow:
"One question. Do you want me to cause pain yet to those two 3s you're riding with?"
Lori Vallow replies, "Probably hold off on them until we arrive. They will be mistake to deal with. But I’ll text you if they start acting up and we can zap them."Lori Vallow Daybell murder trial: Texts between Lori and others revealed in court