TRIAL OF CHAD DAYBELL CHARGED WITH MURDER OF JJ VALLOW, TYLEE RYAN AND TAMMY DAYBELL

[mrjitty]

Was it not to do with Loris mental health and the fact that it slowed down her trial timetable but if they had waited for Lori to be competent it would deny Chad the right to a speedy trial. Or, was it he waived his right and she didn’t?

Yes thanks to everyone who answered.

it is quite bizarre to me that Chad has been allowed to run the so called cut throat defence where he blames his co-murderer for everything, while the state is alleging a joint venture. The cases should normally be heard together. But i get why they were split.

 

[Niner]

@Cindizzi - just wondering if you will be posting the rest of the tweets for the afternoon session. I tried to find them, but it looks like I need an account to get into the tweets.

TIA if you are going to do that- I really need them for my notes!

 

[Ruminations]

I know you’re asking lightofmine99 but hope you won’t mind me chiming in here too.

I have wondered whether that could have been the case and cannot support with any evidence or testimony whether JJ was alive when AC carried him in that night or not.

But…I think he was still alive and here are some thoughts & questions I have that make me think he died later that night…
1) According to MG & DW, AC brought JJ back during the podcast they were doing which was from around 9pm to around midnight. (I think someone - perhaps DW - said they thought it was around 10:30pm but I’m pretty sure both said between 9pm and midnight.) How long after that was it before MG & DW went to bed? Was it before AC left again?
2) What would be the point of taking JJ back to LVD’s if he was already deceased? Why not just tell MG & DW that JJ was spending the night with AC and leave it at that?
3) IF AC had his phone with him at all times that evening then he was in his own apt from shortly after midnight until shortly before 10am when he left and headed toward CD’s. So did he just take JJ’s body right back with him when he left?
4) Why didn’t LVD answer her locked door when MG was trying to get her after DW’s nightmare if JJ was already dead? If he was still in her room why not just pretend he’s asleep? If he was already at AC’s why not answer the door and if MG asked about JJ just say that he was asleep or even that he woke up and went back to AC’s when AC went home?
5) Was LVD even in that locked room? If she was, did she not answer because she was busy killing JJ? Or because she was covering up what she’d just done?
6) If she was in that locked room, was she alone? With JJ? Had AC returned without his phone?
7) Is it possible she thought that MG might come knocking on the door so she locked it and left with JJ’s body to take to AC’s so that MG & DW would not find a deceased JJ the next morning?
8) How and when did AC get JJ’s body to take to CD’s if he left JJ at LVD’s when he returned to his own apartment a little after midnight and didn’t leave until the next morning? It makes more sense to me that LVD took a lifeless JJ to AC’s either while MG knocked on that door or shortly after.
9) And finally, ZP says LVD was angry when she got a phone call on 10/9 - presumably from CD telling her TD was not dead after the attempted shooting- and she said the idiot can’t do anything right by himself. I think this tells us that if AC killed Tylee and/or JJ, he did not do it alone.

It is my opinion only, but I don’t think it is too much of a stretch to think that LVD may have actually killed JJ and Tylee herself and that AC helped her cover it up and disposed of the bodies for her or at the very least, she was right there with him when he did it.

Thanks for that reply!

To play devil's advocate to your various points - not aiming this at you, but because your points are very representative of the vast majority of the conversation in this thread so far ....

1 No one minimizes the deaths, and I don't imagine the defense will either. Their point will be that they just weren't Chad's doing (even though the state wants to link him to it).
2 "The only changes are Tammy died naturally and Chad was not part of murdering Tylee and JJ." - That's true -- but wouldn't you agree those only changes would make a MASSIVE difference for Chad, if they were true (or if the jury believes they very well could be true)? I do.
3 "Suggesting LE is framing him by ..." - I would think Chad's way to state that would be that it has been an investigation and prosecution of convenience, where LE came up with a theory (that Chad-Lori-Alex did a bunch of murders), without any actual proof that he was involved. So they used spin on his innocent (but creepy and lustful) words, and pseudo-science to involve him in the kids deaths (when they were buried) and to say Tammy's unfortunate demise by some illness was a murder, with no solid evidence for either. And meanwhile, it's Lori and Alex doing things they do (and have done in the past too), that he didn't condone or participate in or even know about at the time.
4 As for Chad's demeanor, I think it's smug like you do, but to be fair, is there any reaction he could do that we would see him differently? If he weeps and wails, we see it as a show, if he says nothing we see it as uncaring, and none of this set of murders is news to him -- it's been years. I'm not all that interested in him being a good actor or not. At this point, he (and we too) should be about the evidence, and what it says or doesn't say. Lots of people made a big deal out of how LVD acted in court in her trial, and I felt the same way about that too -- it really should be about what the evidence is saying. imo
... In a related point, some have derided Chad's reaction on seeing the photos of the dead kids, and assumed he was just acting. Frankly, there's no reason to simply assume he had seen those pictures or the bodies before, so maybe it was a 100% real reaction. His lawyer and helpers would have needed to confront them before, and figure out how to respond to that evidence, but not him necessarily. But that's yet another example of how any reaction by him - proper or improper - is going to be ripped.

Like you, I hope for (and expect) him to get hanged, not an acquittal. But I'm still very curious what the evidence will look like (and whether it will hold up, or be shown to have massive flaws) when confronted by an aggressive defense, and I certainly don't want a stupid-but-not-truly-involved bystander to killers to be fried because he couldn't control his loins. We'll see.

Yeah, there is a massive difference legally if Chad were not involved in the killings, but it is too hard to believe he was not involved if he still believes he was framed and still buys into the fantasies.

That's why for the defense to work, in my opinion, he has to let go of "I was framed (because I'm so special)" and show some respect for the investigation. He has to at least to pretend he is sad that the children were murdered. He has to at least pretend he regrets the role he played, while claiming it was not criminal. Because if he does not regret it, it comes off that he thinks, with undeniable evidence to the contrary, no harm was done.

I don't agree that nobody is minimizing deaths. Chad has not expressed any grief at all for the deaths. Perfect strangers (like me) are devastated for JJ, Tylee, and Tammy. Chad has shown no sadness at all. He just acted like he was surprised when E told him bodies were found in his back yard, after he fled from the police for no particular reason. He didn't even muster up pretending he found it tragic to find bodies in his back yard. He danced on the beach after making very short work of burying his murdered wife, while there were dead children in his back yard. If his assertion is he didn't know the children were there, at least on retrospect he should be thoroughly disgusted at himself dancing in costume on the beach with a murderer.

It's not at all believable he was not criminally involved if he has no backward looking disgust. Look at the people who are fairly often considered complicit by posters here, such as Melanie Gibb or Zulema. They are increasingly disgusted and ashamed looking back. They testified against Lori. The mean stuff they said seems closer to forgivable because they seem to be grasping the horrific consequences of the delusion, at least partially. Chad no disgust, has taken no redemptive actions, and therefore can not get away with claiming he was just caught up in a bad thing. He hasn't acknowledged it was bad.

If he is saying the government is framing him, with out seeking protection and justice for children, he is implying protection and justice for children is not important. If he doesn't trust government to provide this, that's one thing. But it is entirely another to ignore protection and justice for children buried in his own back yard. It is just not believable that he was only involved in fantasy if he has no regrets looking back for what happened.

I guess an argument could be made that he is still enmeshed in fantasy and therefore believes he is being framed by evil-spirit tainted LE, and he is not in touch with reality enough to regret the consequences. But that doesn't work well either, considering his deceit and behaviors like driving away when JJ was unearthed.

MOO

Edited to add: not sure how I replied to AA at the same time, I need to refresh this site more often.

 

[SteveS]

Yeah, there is a massive difference legally if Chad were not involved in the killings, but it is too hard to believe he was not involved if he still believes he was framed and still buys into the fantasies.

That's why for the defense to work, in my opinion, he has to let go of "I was framed (because I'm so special)" and show some respect for the investigation. He has to at least to pretend he is sad that the children were murdered. He has to at least pretend he regrets the role he played, while claiming it was not criminal. Because if he does not regret it, it comes off that he thinks, with undeniable evidence to the contrary, no harm was done.

I don't agree that nobody is minimizing deaths. Chad has not expressed any grief at all for the deaths. Perfect strangers (like me) are devastated for JJ, Tylee, and Tammy. Chad has shown no sadness at all. He just acted like he was surprised when E told him bodies were found in his back yard, after he fled from the police for no particular reason. He didn't even muster up pretending he found it tragic to find bodies in his back yard. He danced on the beach after making very short work of burying his murdered wife, while there were dead children in his back yard. If his assertion is he didn't know the children were there, at least on retrospect he should be thoroughly disgusted at himself dancing in costume on the beach with a murderer.

It's not at all believable he was not criminally involved if he has no backward looking disgust. Look at the people who are fairly often considered complicit by posters here, such as Melanie Gibb or Zulema. They are increasingly disgusted and ashamed looking back. They testified against Lori. The mean stuff they said seems closer to forgivable because they seem to be grasping the horrific consequences of the delusion, at least partially. Chad no disgust, has taken no redemptive actions, and therefore can not get away with claiming he was just caught up in a bad thing. He hasn't acknowledged it was bad.

If he is saying the government is framing him, with out seeking protection and justice for children, he is implying protection and justice for children is not important. If he doesn't trust government to provide this, that's one thing. But it is entirely another to ignore protection and justice for children buried in his own back yard. It is just not believable that he was only involved in fantasy if he has no regrets looking back for what happened.

I guess an argument could be made that he is still enmeshed in fantasy and therefore believes he is being framed by evil-spirit tainted LE, and he is not in touch with reality enough to regret the consequences. But that doesn't work well either, considering his deceit and behaviors like driving away when JJ was unearthed.

MOO

Edited to add: not sure how I replied to AA at the same time, I need to refresh this site more often.

Some things I think you are overlooking, that are probably very relevant to the questions you raise:
1 Afaik Chad hasn't been doing interviews and saying ANYTHING, and we don't have any idea what he is thinking since he's been arrested.
2 Being under arrest, awaiting trial, he was almost certainly told to not say a word about any of it to anyone. He has no choice, if he's smart. And even if you are innocent as the pure snow, there's no way to say the right thing when a splashy and complex set of charges are laid on you.
3 In addition, the state has wanted to make CD the partner in anything and everything Lori and Alex did. So how could he ever say anything against either of them, even if he wanted to? It would only have been used as evidence against him, to say she or Alex did anything wrong. Even now, that's the packaging being used, to try to convict him.
4 To me it's only about whether the evidence says he's a killer (or not), not evaluating his skills as an actor or his content as a speech maker. He's not on trial for what he doesn't or doesn't say, or how he acts now. imo
5 The fantasy world ideas of saying these kids are doing well, and the kids would agree I did the right thing for them, and so on? CD has said nothing like that. That was pure Lori the Loon, the Crazed Killer, the Psycho Narcissist, trying to re-cast her evil actions as good. Not Chad.

That having been said, do I think he'll be shown to be innocent, and win the case? I doubt it. And I think anyone who does these sorts of things should fry, when they are proven. These are what the death penalty is meant to help with, to permanently erase rabid dogs from preying on our innocent (and given the state of our judges, governors, jailers, etc, LWOP can give no absolute assurance that a killer won't one day be freed to kill again).

 

[BUF]

@Cindizzi - just wondering if you will be posting the rest of the tweets for the afternoon session. I tried to find them, but it looks like I need an account to get into the tweets.

TIA if you are going to do that- I really need them for my notes!

@Niner Nate Eaton does live trial updates daily on East Idaho News for those of us who can no longer get tweets. Here is the link for yesterday…

LIVE UPDATES | Detective describes gruesome discovery of JJ Vallow and Tylee Ryan on day 2 of Daybell murder case - East Idaho News

LIVE UPDATES FROM THE CHAD DAYBELL TRIAL Excuse the typos – these are live updates from the courtroom CLICK HERE TO WATCH THE LIVE VIDEO FEED 2:22 p.m. Boyce says jury selection went quicker than anticipated so the next witness is not here. We are dismissing for the day and no court tomorrow...

www.eastidahonews.com

 

[Kemug]

So sad reliving all this tragedy, it doesn't get any easier with time - and I have no connection at all. I just can't imagine what it's like for all the bereaved, and especially for Kay and Larry. I single them out because they are the ones grieving most for the little victim JJ, their precious grandson. Love and blessings to them.

 

[Nikynoo]

It is my opinion only, but I don’t think it is too much of a stretch to think that LVD may have actually killed JJ and Tylee herself and that AC helped her cover it up and disposed of the bodies for her or at the very least, she was right there with him when he did it.

Thank you for your reply. I share your opinion for the reasons stated in your post.

 

[Nikynoo]

My thought is no because the reports of JJ's autopsy photos suggest JJ tried to remove the duct tape or something from his neck while alive. He had injuries that suggest he was fighting, and fighting is impossible when excessively restrained as he was. I think he was alive during much of the process of taping.

If not for restraint, the tape was a ritual. If the tape was for some ritual to keep away dark spirits, I would think the process would have to be done with more urgency than after the pod cast is done.

If the taping was a ritual, post-death tape around the neck doesn't explain the scratches under the tape. But it is possible the murderers thought they were doing something to protect their victim's body in taping him as he died. If that's the case, they did not realize or did not acknowledge that they themselves were the evil ones.

MOO

IMO the taping of the arms was to try and stop JJ from trying to remove the bag from his head. It was part of the murder IMO.

“(NewsNation) — The official cause of death for JJ Vallow is asphyxia from a plastic bag being put over his head and duct tape over his mouth, while his sister, Tylee Ryan's, is homicide by unspecified means, Ada County Coroner Dr. Garth Warren said Wednesday.”

Can’t post a link to the article as I am outside the US

 

[lightofmine99]

Interested in your thoughts/reasoning?

I don't think he did it completely alone. He would've been assisted by Lori (for JJ) and Chad (Tylee). Rather, he was the assistant while the other two did it. They couldn't determine the COD for Tylee but if she had been shot in the head, there would've been evidence of that. However it's still theoretically possible she was shot in the chest/abdomen and the evidence for that was lost during the dismemberment and burning. In this case I could see Alex being the one to shoot, since he's done it before.

I also agree with what @Ruminations said, or at least think it's possible. It has been determined that Alex likely had some level of cognitive disability, which impacted his ability to socialize and in many ways he failed to launch into adulthood. He had impulsivity issues and has been compared to a "forever teenager." I think he experienced some head injury when he was young. I'm not at all implying he's absolved of guilt, but I think that Chad and Lori preyed on and exploited Alex's need for acceptance, spiritual forgiveness/fulfillment, and gullibility.

 

[Ruminations]

Some things I think you are overlooking, that are probably very relevant to the questions you raise:
1 Afaik Chad hasn't been doing interviews and saying ANYTHING, and we don't have any idea what he is thinking since he's been arrested.
2 Being under arrest, awaiting trial, he was almost certainly told to not say a word about any of it to anyone. He has no choice, if he's smart. And even if you are innocent as the pure snow, there's no way to say the right thing when a splashy and complex set of charges are laid on you.
3 In addition, the state has wanted to make CD the partner in anything and everything Lori and Alex did. So how could he ever say anything against either of them, even if he wanted to? It would only have been used as evidence against him, to say she or Alex did anything wrong. Even now, that's the packaging being used, to try to convict him.
4 To me it's only about whether the evidence says he's a killer (or not), not evaluating his skills as an actor or his content as a speech maker. He's not on trial for what he doesn't or doesn't say, or how he acts now. imo
5 The fantasy world ideas of saying these kids are doing well, and the kids would agree I did the right thing for them, and so on? CD has said nothing like that. That was pure Lori the Loon, the Crazed Killer, the Psycho Narcissist, trying to re-cast her evil actions as good. Not Chad.

That having been said, do I think he'll be shown to be innocent, and win the case? I doubt it. And I think anyone who does these sorts of things should fry, when they are proven. These are what the death penalty is meant to help with, to permanently erase rabid dogs from preying on our innocent (and given the state of our judges, governors, jailers, etc, LWOP can give no absolute assurance that a killer won't one day be freed to kill again).

lol, I'm not overlooking stuff.

And, for whatever it's worth, I'm not interested in anyone frying, even Chad. That's not my thing.

I consider it a contradiction to be a good defendant, keep your mouth shut, let your attorney do the talking, yet believe the evil government is out to get you and does not have a point at least in investigating the deaths of children. It has to be one or the other, IMO. Being a good defendant means the spell is broken. Thinking you are being framed because the State arrested you when there were children buried in your back yard means the delusion continues.

And speaking of being a good defendant, what lawyer would not release a statement of grief for the victims, carefully worded, on behalf of their client? A lawyer who knows there is no way to phrase it without lying about his client's feelings, knowledge and culpability, IMO

MOO

 

[Cindizzi]

@Niner Nate Eaton does live trial updates daily on East Idaho News for those of us who can no longer get tweets. Here is the link for yesterday…

LIVE UPDATES | Detective describes gruesome discovery of JJ Vallow and Tylee Ryan on day 2 of Daybell murder case - East Idaho News

LIVE UPDATES FROM THE CHAD DAYBELL TRIAL Excuse the typos – these are live updates from the courtroom CLICK HERE TO WATCH THE LIVE VIDEO FEED 2:22 p.m. Boyce says jury selection went quicker than anticipated so the next witness is not here. We are dismissing for the day and no court tomorrow...

www.eastidahonews.com

Thanks @BUF
I just now saw your question, @Niner ! Sorry I didn’t post an explanation why I stopped sharing tweets yesterday— I have pulmonary rehab on Tuesday and Thursday afternoon ( still recovering from having Covid). I’ll be here as much as I can otherwise. Thanks, everyone

 

[iamshadow21]

Thanks @BUF
I just now saw your question, @Niner ! Sorry I didn’t post an explanation why I stopped sharing tweets yesterday— I have pulmonary rehab on Tuesday and Thursday afternoon ( still recovering from having Covid). I’ll be here as much as I can otherwise. Thanks, everyone

You DID tell us, sweetie, and your health comes first. You don't ever have to apologise or explain further than you did.

TRIAL OF CHAD DAYBELL CHARGED WITH MURDER OF JJ VALLOW, TYLEE RYAN AND TAMMY DAYBELL

www.websleuths.com

 

[Cindizzi]

BOISE, Idaho — On the second day in the trial of 55-year-old Chad Daybell, the first witness called was Ray Hermosillo, a detective with the Rexburg, Idaho, Police Department.

The cross-examination was brief but established that Alex Cox and Lori Vallow were with J.J. Vallow on the last day he was known to be alive.

[…]

Daybell’s defense attorney, John Prior did what he could to keep his client out of the picture as much as possible, at least for what appears to be the last day alive for J.J. Vallow.

Prior alluded to the fact that he, too, had subpoenaed Hermosillo to testify.

There is probably no reason why the defense would recall the state’s lead detective, but it sounded good in front of the jury, especially given the brief cross-examination — an “I’m not done with you” moment.

[…]

Day Two in Chad Daybell murder trial

A Rexburg, Idaho, police detective testified during the second day of the murder trial of Chad Daybell.

kslnewsradio.com

 

[Cindizzi]

You DID tell us, sweetie, and your health comes first. You don't ever have to apologise or explain further than you did.

TRIAL OF CHAD DAYBELL CHARGED WITH MURDER OF JJ VALLOW, TYLEE RYAN AND TAMMY DAYBELL

www.websleuths.com

Appreciate it! It’s all good. I know @Niner is on the other side of the world and works when we’re all sleeping so she probably didn’t catch my post.I just meant I should have posted again that I wouldn’t be here after the lunch break so folks would see it lol. I kinda ghosted y’all

 

[lightofmine99]

From Nate's live tweet page:

Prior asks about Alex Googling the Hannibal Lecter “thing.” Hermosillo says he is not aware of that.

What is this referring to?

 

[Onsdag]

3 In addition, the state has wanted to make CD the partner in anything and everything Lori and Alex did. So how could he ever say anything against either of them, even if he wanted to? It would only have been used as evidence against him, to say she or Alex did anything wrong. Even now, that's the packaging being used, to try to convict him.
4 To me it's only about whether the evidence says he's a killer (or not), not evaluating his skills as an actor or his content as a speech maker. He's not on trial for what he doesn't or doesn't say, or how he acts now. imo
5 The fantasy world ideas of saying these kids are doing well, and the kids would agree I did the right thing for them, and so on? CD has said nothing like that. That was pure Lori the Loon, the Crazed Killer, the Psycho Narcissist, trying to re-cast her evil actions as good. Not Chad.

RSBM

Here's the rub - and you said it yourself - "that's the packaging being used, to try to convict him." Chad has been charged with conspiracy to commit murder. It doesn't need to be proven that he is the one who committed the very act of murder, only that he conspired with one who did.

I believe the State can easily prove that Chad did in fact conspire with Lori and/or Alex to commit these murders, and then cover them up (pun intentional). He is so enmeshed in this whole crime, along with those other participants, that he is at one with them. Hence conspiracy.

It is clear that he is now trying to throw Lori under the bus, but that won't work in this case. Where was he to throw her under the bus at any point beforehand? He surely had opportunity at anytime. After she got arrested and was no longer physically present in his life? Nope. Several months later when he knew his own arrest was imminent? Nope. He had all the time and opportunity in the world to cooperate with police and aid in their investigation. But instead he chose at every point to aid and abet his co-conspirators. And the evidence will bear this out in great abundance. He dug his own grave and now gets to bury himself in it.

Just one person's humble view.
Time will tell if twelve others agree.

 

[lightofmine99]

He dug his own grave and now gets to bury himself in it.

A poetic end for a former cemetery sexton.

 

[Niner]

@Niner Nate Eaton does live trial updates daily on East Idaho News for those of us who can no longer get tweets. Here is the link for yesterday…

LIVE UPDATES | Detective describes gruesome discovery of JJ Vallow and Tylee Ryan on day 2 of Daybell murder case - East Idaho News

LIVE UPDATES FROM THE CHAD DAYBELL TRIAL Excuse the typos – these are live updates from the courtroom CLICK HERE TO WATCH THE LIVE VIDEO FEED 2:22 p.m. Boyce says jury selection went quicker than anticipated so the next witness is not here. We are dismissing for the day and no court tomorrow...

www.eastidahonews.com

Thank you for this site - I will post your post in my notes as reference.

Appreciate it! It’s all good. I know @Niner is on the other side of the world and works when we’re all sleeping so she probably didn’t catch my post.I just meant I should have posted again that I wouldn’t be here after the lunch break so folks would see it lol. I kinda ghosted y’all

I did see your posts about having a doctor's appointment - I just thought "maybe" you would be back later to post what Nate had on his tweets. That way I can reference those post #s in my notes for you all. I shall just use the article in #593 as reference for the afternoon session.


And a BIG THANKS for doing those tweets! Helps me keep up! And yes - I am on the other side of the World - working while you all sleep - well some of you sleep! LOL!

 

[Niner]

Okay - I have in my notes all these people - Prosecutors: Fremont County Prosecuting Attorney Lindsey Blake, Madison County Prosecuting Attorney Rob Wood, Special Attorney General Prosecutor Ingrid Batey & Fremont County Deputy Prosecuting Attorney Rocky Wixom

But is only Blake & Wood prosecuting this case? Or the other 2 in the court room the whole time? Just wondering if I should have their names (Batey & Wixom) in my notes. TIA if you can help!

 

[Cindizzi]

I haven’t seen any reporting on this, but it was filed yesterday 4/11 :

https://s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/isc.coi/CR22-21-1623/2024/041124-Notice-of-Hearing.pdf