Trial Thread - 9 May 2012 Judge to give Jury Instructions

[matou]

Mike Knoll: - archived feeds here: http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/raffertytrial/2012/03/23/19539806.html


Good Morning, Do you have the link to Rafferty's interview that was played yesterday afternoon for the jury?

http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/raffertytrial/2012/03/23/19542366.html


Crown will finish closing arguments at the Tori Stafford trial today; jury expected to begin deliberations tomorrow http://bit.ly/KQa8Am

Here is the transcript to the interview.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/86510694/TRANSCRIPT-Michael-Rafferty-interview-with-OPP-2009-05-15

 

[jenniferleia]

that is exactly what he said too. In his opinion TLM messed up everything by changing her testimony and saying that she did the killing. I hate to say it but I have the feeling that he is right. We all want to see this guy locked up for a long time (that's what our hearts want) because that's what we believe. But that's is not the way a Jury can make their verdict. They can only built on things they can proof.....

Another question that came up in this discussion was: what if the jury would say: we can't agree with 1st degree murder but find him guilty of accessory murder? Is that even possible because that's not what he is charged with?

Go back a few posts to the definition of first degree murder....."if you are involved with a kidnapping" and it leads to death then it is still considered first degree murder. Correct me if I am wrong in that statement?? I think he was 100% involved with a kidnapping (no matter what the reason), therefore guilty. Plain and simple.

 

[Yody04]

I feel the same way your husband feels. However since I was not present in the court room to see the body language of the witnesses, nor to see the autopsy photos, (they must have an impact emotionally) ... I am not sure which way they vote.

that was my question too: how can you cut out your emotions and just go after evidence? I don't know.
My husband doesn't know all the little details we do because he can't handle it. Reading about it makes him sick and I can give him always just little portions.

 

[Sailor Bug]

RaffertyLFP: Court resuming jury not in yet

 

[Yody04]

Go back a few posts to the definition of murder....."if you are involved with a kidnapping" and it leads to death then it is still considered first degree murder. Correct me if I am wrong in that statement?? I think he was 100% involved with a kidnapping (no matter what the reason), therefore guilty. Plain and simple.

I know all that but he also has his doubts about the kidnapping. :-(

 

[~n/t~]

RaffertyLFP: Court resuming jury not in yet [via Twitter]

 

[Wondergirl]

Good-morning.

Thinking of poor Rodney and the family today.

Rest in Peace, sweet child.

 

[Sailor Bug]

Court in session

Jurors in the courtroom.

RaffertyLFP: Crown Attorney Kevin Gowdey tells jury he will take most of day to finish final argument

RaffertyLFP: Gowdey says he will finish evidence "chapters" and the deal more specifically with McClintic testimony

 

[robynhood]

,,,I know that TLM testimony is questionable but she did claim that the supposive rape occurred in tha back seat of the car ....blood could have ( i would underline that but in a hurry to get twitter) occurred when the rape occured as some where on here it stated that M.R pushed Tori out the door after....( now this is highly questionable ) coming I think form TLM ....but when the fornsiac was done....i think it supprted that theory ...the blood was found on the back seat rear car moulding ....some asked yesterday where exactly that blood was found ....and if my memory was correct....was not M.R's sperm not mixed with Tori's blood????....the spot on his gym bad was explained as blood that did splatter from murder ....not sure on details ...and tweeter is starting.....bye must catch them for you all ...robynhood....This post is IMO and from what I think I read ....so much info ...tweeter and artcles published on this bloos samples ..gotta run missing stuff!

 

[Sailor Bug]

RaffertyLFP: Gowdey resumes - talking about Rafferty's connections to Wellington County

Gowdey tells the jury he'll take up "much" of today with the rest of his closing,

Rodney Stafford's family tells media that Tori's dad won't be coming to court today. Family says he's completely "saturated."

Now going over Rafferty's connection to the Mount Forest area.

 

[~n/t~]

Steven D'Souza ‏ @cbcsteve
Crown Closing Arguments resume with Kevin Gowdey talking about #Rafferty's connection to Mt. Forest area (where Tori was found) #sl


Steven D'Souza ‏ @cbcsteve
Tori Stafford's grandmother says Rodney Stafford won't be coming to court today. He left midday yesterday

 

[crystalsleuth]

Another question that came up in this discussion was: what if the jury would say: we can't agree with 1st degree murder but find him guilty of accessory murder? Is that even possible because that's not what he is charged with?

It is my understanding that the Judge will let the jury know what options they have when he addresses them after the Crown is finished their closing arguments. It is possible that he will tell them what to do in a situation like you have noted above.

If it takes 2 days to address them, they will have quite a list of things to consider, IMO.

 

[robynhood]

AM980_Court Rodney Stafford's family tells media that Tori's dad won't be coming to court today. Family says he's completely "saturated."

 

[robynhood]

M980_Court Now going over Rafferty's connection to the Mount Forest area.

 

[Sailor Bug]

RaffertyLFP: Gowdey resumes - talking about Rafferty's connections to Wellington County

Reminding the jury of a woman who dated Rafferty, said they'd drive around north of Guelph and have sex.

RaffertyLFP: Gowdey recounts testimony from girlfriends about his wandering around backroads and his former employer at landscaping job

 

[Sailor Bug]

RaffertyLFP: Gowdey says Rafferty lived and worked Wellington County McClintic did not - would have known area of crime scene

McClintic, meantime, had no connection.

RaffertyLFP: Gowdey continues with Rafferty's post-crime behaviour including visits to Genest

 

[robynhood]

AM980_Court Gowdey satsuma that shows he knows the area, would be able to find a secluded spot.

tweet before mentioned how his past Gf gave evidence that M.R knew the area and former employer

 

[robynhood]

RaffertyLFP Gowdey says Rafferty lived and worked Wellington County McClintic did not - would have known area of crime scene

 

[~n/t~]

Linda Nguyen ‏ @LindaNguyenPN
Crown continues closing arguments with #Rafferty's familiarity with the Mount Forest area, where #ToriStafford was eventually found

 

[Allanae]

It is my understanding that if they find him guilty of kidnapping and/or sexual assault and either or both lead to her death than he is also guilty of first degree murder.

If we look at TLM, when she was charged she said MTR wielded the hammer but she was still charged with first degree murder!!

Thanks for saying this. I don't understand why people are thinking he is going to be charged with a lesser crime than he is on trial for. He was a part of the abduction/kidnapping. She died during this time so IMO he is guilty of 1st. I have reasonable doubt about the sexual assault- I feel the crown can't prove it 100%, but they have been able to prove that he was part of the kidnapping. There is no way an 8 year old child would be driven 2 hours away and not protest. I have been around enough kids in my life to know this. Even if he didn't know about it at the beginning there had to be a time he knew about it during that 2 hours. She was also hidden in the car. There is no other explanation on why she would be hidden. There is no way a child would not say a word or put up a fight if they were abducted/kidnapped. Once he was aware of it he was a part of it IMO.