Trial Thread - 9 May 2012 Judge to give Jury Instructions

[OhSoCurious]

TLM said that MR raped Victoria. Should we believe everything that TLM said?

Unfortunately TLM lies for convenience and circumstance. She lies for the outcome she wants and needs for each situation. That is the saddest part of trying to find justice for Tori.

JMO MOO IMO

 

[brighidin]

Unfortunately TLM lies for convenience and circumstance. She lies for the outcome she wants and needs for each situation. That is the saddest part of trying to find justice for Tori.

JMO MOO IMO

Do you believe her when she says she killed Tori?

 

[nobodyzgirl]

I see Rafferty spent another day shaking his head, rolling his eyes, and nodding his head in agreement with some things in court.

Can anyone refer me to an accused kidnapper, rapist and/or murderer, who was acquitted of the charges, after they had acted in this manner during court?

It comes across in the media and reports as deranged, IMO.

Who in their right mind would act this way, at the tale end of a heinous murder trial?

I am serious, if you were innocent, and you knew the Jury and thousands of people were watching every single day, would you weep at the sight of your ex-girlfriend, stare at the ceiling and close your eyes during testimony by distraught witnesses, roll your eyes, mutter and curse at the evidence of the death of a child?

Who in their right mind would act that way? Even if you wanted to act that way, you wouldn't, right?

I am sick of the antics and disrespect. Ultimately, again, I will suggest, that Rafferty is putting the final nail in his own coffin, by his actions, as much as his lack of words.

And, I might add, very ill advised for this to be happening 2 days in a row.

JMO

BBM - I believe her name was CA, who behaved in a similar fashion - JMO

 

[puppyraiser]

Yes ... Welcome! I understood how you intended it to be taken. JMO

I apologize for writing "only". I should have said "one" of the reasons. I do not post very often but have followed this since the beginning since I live close to Woodstock and have a child the same age. I am only going on what my children have been taught to do. I realize that other children might react differently.

Shawn Hornebeck, Ben Ownby, Steven Stayner, Elizabeth Smart..... just to list a few who survived being kidnapped and told their stories. Fear that the kidnappers would follow through with the threats to kill them or their families kept them compliant. No matter how much stranger danger children are taught, most often the evil doers find a weakness and prey on it. Dateline showed teens the other night doing something their parents said they had been taught not to do (get in vehicle with someone they thought had been drinking). Oprah showed a number of years ago how children were fooled by the puppy story even though parents had specifically mentioned that scenario while educating their children...........yet they fell for it every time.

 

[OhSoCurious]

not really proof IMO. The defence couldn't even expand on that theory, they had no one testify to this theory, MR made this theory up when he tried to mislead LE during his interview.....MR lies just as TLM does.....

But at no point in his closing argument did defence lawyer Dirk Derstine explain what the drug debt involved.

And that's exactly how it works when providing links from the Crown. Some say "not really proof" IMO.

With so many lies from all directions, it seems difficult to prove much without reasonable doubt. JMO MOO IMO

 

[flipflop]

Unfortunately TLM lies for convenience and circumstance. She lies for the outcome she wants and needs for each situation. That is the saddest part of trying to find justice for Tori.

JMO MOO IMO

MR lies as well. TLM is where she belongs, now MR needs to be put away for life as well!! Justice is coming!!!!!

 

[OhSoCurious]

Do you believe her when she says she killed Tori?

Yes TLM killed Tori. MOO IMO JMO

 

[brighidin]

Yes TLM killed Tori. MOO IMO JMO

That isn't what I asked.

 

[Muckrucker]

BBM - I believe her name was CA, who behaved in a similar fashion - JMO

Yeah, but CA had the Pinellas12, not Canadians for the jurors. We're accustomed to a much different level of decorum in our courts. Not to mention in day-to-day life.

She also had a much sneakier and less ethical lawyer than MR.

Apples compared to apple crumble. Different mixture and ingredients.

 

[Jezbel]

I remember hearing about Tori, the searches, the mini pressers by the family each day, I remember the arrests, when they found Tori's remains. When TLM pleaded guilty and when this trial began. I saw the news reports and read the articles, but I was not a member of any type or forum and did not participate or read anything on any forums about MR's trial until just before this all began. I did t have any pre conceived notions of drugs debts, deviant sexual behavior, gang affiliation or any of the others theories that have been put out there by anyone, I didn't have any means to access any of that information simply as I read the papers and watched the news which didn't go into the detail that people here at WS do.
As this trial started I didn't have half the information that has been posted here, and though I have of course been reading it all the past few months I really did not take too much of it into account as I was waiting for the trial to began to put all the pieces together. So my opinion from someone who has not been privy to all these others theories has based my opinion mostly on what has been presented.
I believe that MR is guilty on all counts, I think the crown has done a brilliant job of corroborating the testimony of a witness whose credibility is in question. There is no doubt in my mind that MR was an active participant in the whole thing. For those who might doubt the kidnapping I don't think there is any way that he could not have know. That Tori had been kidnapped when he drive up that lane way, which would still make him guilty. Also I can think of no logical reason as to why Tori was found without her shoes, tights, skirt and coat that wouldn't lead me to believe she was not sexually assaulted. Yes maybe her blood could have landed on the EXACT spot of the doorframe that already contained MRs semen but I think the probability of that is so low that I highly doubt that could happen. The defence gave no logical reasoning as to what MR was doing during all of this, they kept saying the if TLM was not the mastermind then when did she not save Tori during the few chances she had, well of MR was not behind it also, why did he not choose to save Tori? I am also not a believer that listening to music such as Necro would make you a murderer and I see no evidence of TLM being in a gang.
Yes I have thought from the beginning that MR is guilty, but if something proved beyond a reasonable doubt otherwise during the trial then maybe my mind would have changed, but that didn't happen. The jury cannot theorize on other scenarios except for those brought up as evidence and I haven't theorized any of the scenarios brought up here. I believe I have kept a pretty clear head during the trial an have been able to attend a fair amount of it myself and if I were on the jury I know what my verdict would be now.

As always JMO

Let justice for Tori come swiftly and smoothly now. May she rest in piece forever.

ETA: sorry for any typos, it's a pain posting on an iPod.

 

[CarrieBean]

And that's exactly how it works when providing links from the Crown. Some say "not really proof" IMO.

With so many lies from all directions, it seems difficult to prove much without reasonable doubt. JMO MOO IMO

That link you posted is nothing but the garbage the defense pulled out of their asses, lol.

Nothing to support any of it. Nothing to support anything they've said.

Plenty of evidence on Tori's side. Thankfully.

The 2nd paragraph in the link you posted

"But at no point in his closing argument did defence lawyer Dirk Derstine explain what the drug debt involved, nor say why Ms. McClintic chose to implicate Mr. Rafferty, her co-accused and former boyfriend."

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...murderous-plan-defence-lawyer/article2424833/

 

[otto]

here is your requested link, there are dozens more but I am tired:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...murderous-plan-defence-lawyer/article2424833/

Convicted killer Terri-Lynne McClintic kidnapped eight-year-old Victoria (Tori) Stafford to resolve a “drug debt” and beat the child to death with a hammer she’d bought that day, while Michael Rafferty was just a reluctant dupe who got sucked into the murderous scheme, Mr. Rafferty’s murder trial was told Monday.

MR's defence lawyer echoed initial comments made by MR to police during the early stages of the investigation into missing child Victoria Stafford ... "Convicted killer Terri-Lynne McClintic kidnapped eight-year-old Victoria (Tori) Stafford to resolve a “drug debt” and beat the child to death with a hammer she’d bought that day, while Michael Rafferty was just a reluctant dupe who got sucked into the murderous scheme, Mr. Rafferty’s murder trial was told Monday.

But at no point in his closing argument did defence lawyer Dirk Derstine explain what the drug debt involved, nor say why Ms. McClintic chose to implicate Mr. Rafferty, her co-accused and former boyfriend."

...

"Mr. Derstine wants to persuade the jurors that Ms. McClintic was “the engine” of all that happened on that day in April, 2009, and that no sexual assault ever took place."

...

"Mr. Rafferty had a knife in his car and had no reason to buy a hammer, he said."

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...murderous-plan-defence-lawyer/article2424833/

 

[otto]

Unfortunately TLM lies for convenience and circumstance. She lies for the outcome she wants and needs for each situation. That is the saddest part of trying to find justice for Tori.

JMO MOO IMO

If we believe that TLM offered to take the kidnapping victim into the Tim Hortons, do we also believe her when she said that MR raped Victoria?

 

[CarrieBean]

Unfortunately TLM lies for convenience and circumstance. She lies for the outcome she wants and needs for each situation. That is the saddest part of trying to find justice for Tori.

JMO MOO IMO

And why is it that Michael Rafferty lies, do you believe?

 

[OhSoCurious]

MR's defence lawyer echoed initial comments made by MR to police during the early stages of the investigation into missing child Victoria Stafford ... "Convicted killer Terri-Lynne McClintic kidnapped eight-year-old Victoria (Tori) Stafford to resolve a “drug debt” and beat the child to death with a hammer she’d bought that day, while Michael Rafferty was just a reluctant dupe who got sucked into the murderous scheme, Mr. Rafferty’s murder trial was told Monday.

But at no point in his closing argument did defence lawyer Dirk Derstine explain what the drug debt involved, nor say why Ms. McClintic chose to implicate Mr. Rafferty, her co-accused and former boyfriend."

...

"Mr. Derstine wants to persuade the jurors that Ms. McClintic was “the engine” of all that happened on that day in April, 2009, and that no sexual assault ever took place."

...

"Mr. Rafferty had a knife in his car and had no reason to buy a hammer, he said."

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...murderous-plan-defence-lawyer/article2424833/

The onus is not on him to do so. JMO MOO IMO

 

[otto]

And that's exactly how it works when providing links from the Crown. Some say "not really proof" IMO.

With so many lies from all directions, it seems difficult to prove much without reasonable doubt. JMO MOO IMO

The defence lawyer has thrown out a claim about a "drug debt", but offered nothing to support that claim. That means it's nothing more than a wild idea cooked up by his client and presented in court by the lawyer. The defence lawyer can only present what his client has told him ... whether it makes sense or not. The "drug debt" makes no sense. Who owed money and how is that related to the victim?

 

[otto]

Yes TLM killed Tori. MOO IMO JMO

Two people were involved in the abduction, rape and murder of Victoria. TLM is an admitted murderer. Good for her. It's too bad the other person that participated in the events is trying to weasel out of it ... but that doesn't mean he will succeed.

 

[CarrieBean]

The onus is not on him to do so. JMO MOO IMO

Right, but it is his duty to defend his client. He hasn't done that. He's thrown out stories that have no backbone. That's all he could do.

I'd be surprised if everyone on the defence council wasn't cringing inside while they had to defend him.

 

[otto]

The onus is not on him to do so. JMO MOO IMO

True. The defence closing arguments can be fiction, but quoting that fiction does not mean that the fiction is fact. The defence lawyer was clearly instructed by his client to put forth a drug debt remark so, even though there is no evidence to support it, that's what the defence lawyer did. That's what he's paid to do.

There is no evidence that there was a drug debt or that this excuse from MR has any truth.

 

[otto]

"Rafferty, 31, has pleaded not guilty and his lawyer Dirk Derstine spent the previous day casting McClintic, already serving a life sentence for the murder, as the lone homicidal “engine” behind Tori’s slaying. He refloated his vague theory that she snatched the little girl to exact a ransom for a drug debt and that Rafferty had no idea what was going on when his former girlfriend asked him to wait in the car while she picked Tori up from Oliver Stephens Public School.

But rather than standing by in horror later as McClintic struck the child repeatedly with a hammer, motivated only by her own demons, Gowdey told jurors Rafferty was actually the mastermind behind the ugly tableau. That this was never about an unsubstantiated drug debt, this was about a man who wanted to rape a child."

http://m.torontosun.com/2012/05/08/...ctly-at-rafferty-as-toris-killer?noimage=true