Trip to the airport

[Shylock]

....no-one in their right mind would fly their family from Boulder, CO, to Charlevoix, MI in the dead of winter in a small plane...

No-one in their right mind would fly a small plane over a large body of water in the dark of night, but JFK Jr. tried it...
"splish, splash, I was take'n a bath!"

 

[BlueCrab]

....no-one in their right mind would fly their family from Boulder, CO, to Charlevoix, MI in the dead of winter in a small plane...

Charlevoix gets a lot of snow...

cappuccina,

You are correct. That planned hop up to Charlevoix never made any sense to me either. Patsy didn't want to go. There's probably a story behind the story about the reason for this seemingly unnecessary short visit and the intricate scheduling needed to meet in Minneapolis and carry on from there, let alone to make the flight in the first place.

JMO

 

[vicktor]

Nope...she never went to bed. If she had, she would have bathed and she would have put on a nice clean outfit.

This statement is often brought up as an example of Patsy not doing what normally she would and when coupled with her statement about the shower makes her behavior and answers questionable.

Its generally agreed that JB's tod was between 12;00 and 2:00. That would leave Patsy and or John & Burke 4 hours to plan, stage etc. before 5:52. Like so many facts, observations about what happened, this instance says 2 different things with almost the same strength, depending on which theory you believe.
Example A is what is described.
Example B : Patsy / the Ramseys have been up most all night, sweating staging,planning. They have to create a believable scene, both in the way it looks and by what they say, and do. If it were me, the first thing I would think of is I stink, need to shower and put on fresh clothes, so it doesn't appear that I"m disheveled, smelly, and oddly wearing the same clothes as the night before. IOW, Patsy surely could have found an extra 20 min. to do these things, as if she was appearing to start a regular day. The fact that she ignored the obvious speaks as strongly for example B as it does for A.

 

[SisterSocks]

The Ramseys owned John Douglas's book, Mindhunter. Even if neither of them had read it, they were obviously interested in true crime topics and would have known how important clothing fibers can be in solving a case. Regardless of whether Patsy had ever changed into her jammers or nightie and gone to bed, I think she purposely wore the same clothing on the 26th that she'd worn on the 25th to account for any of her clothing fibers that might later be found on JonBenet's body, and that the main purpose of her dramatic Lazuras bit was to provide an excuse for any such fibers. Too bad she didn't know that fibers from her clothing would be found in the ligature knot, as well as in the paint tray, which was still in the basement near where JonBenet's body had lain.

imo

No doubt this is bull spit Ivy- There is NO EVIDENCE THAT THE RAMSEYS OWNED THE BOOK "MINDHUNTER."..

I need a source and don't use Thomas or PMPT--- ITS A LIE! THE BOOK WAS NOT IN THE HELL HOLE HOUSE . Ramseys didn't own the book the night of JB's death
SOCKS

 

[Ivy]

So, SisterSocks, who are you, God Almighty? How do you know what books the Rs owned? Unless you are God, or John or Patsy Ramsey, you don't know. If you are not God, John or Patsy, it's absurd for you to blindly accuse Thomas of lying about Mindhunter having been found on a bookshelf in the Rs' house.

Trip DeMuth questioned Patsy about Douglas's book, so there were apparently crime scene photos taken of it in the Ramseys' house. Of course, Patsy denied knowing anything about the book, because the book contains information on how killers can stage crime scenes to cast suspicion away from themselves. Admitting having read the book would have been pretty stupid of Patsy, wouldn't it?

imo

Edited for grammar

 

[Toltec]

...let's not forget that Patsy watched some of the OJ trial...tee hee!

I can bet anyone that Patsy also saw the very succesful movie of 1996..."The Usual Suspects".

IMO

 

[elannia]

I bumped up this thread because I was curious and confused. In the book PMPT it talks about MA and the morning of the trip. John had tried to call MA and tell him JB had been kidnapped. The police were puzzled why JR was in hurry to tell his pilot that she was kidnapped. Then he called him again told him not to fly to Minneapolis but to notify the airline which the children were on. Then 25 minutes afterJB was found he called him again saying they've killed her and to ready the plane for a flight to Atlanta. Then it said why did john call MA so soon after finding the body and why did he want to leave boulder. I read something that john asked how long it would be for the plane to be ready and he said 2 hours. Can someone help. Im so confused.

 

[tweezybird]

Shouldn't the plane have already been prepared as they were supposed to fly to MI to meet the rest of the family.

 

[midwest mama]

Shouldn't the plane have already been prepared as they were supposed to fly to MI to meet the rest of the family.

I would think so, especially since JR spent about 3 hours at the hangar on Christmas day supposedly doing just that. Could it have taken MA 2 hours that day to make necessary changes with the airport about flight plans in order to secure them a different departure time?

 

[Nom de plume]

I would think so, especially since JR spent about 3 hours at the hangar on Christmas day supposedly doing just that. Could it have taken MA 2 hours that day to make necessary changes with the airport about flight plans in order to secure them a different departure time?

Or JR wasn't at the airport on Christmas day. If he wasn't there, then he already knew they wouldn't be flying to MI in the morning. It's been said before and is true, a pilot does his own pre flight readying of the plane. If MA was the pilot that was to fly to MI on the 26th, then why hadn't he already readied the plane? Was the trip to MI really planned, at least for the 4 Boulder Rs? Makes you wonder. Either way, it should have been ready at a moment's notice in less than 8 hours after a planned flight! Something really fishy with that whole thing. Doesn't make any sense any way you look at it.

 

[tweezybird]

IIRC, the older children were going to meet them in MI. Did the cops check that out to see if that was true or were they really flying right into Boulder. I remember there was talk that someone, Archuletta?, was supposed to change their flights and bring them to Boulder after JB was found?

 

[DeeDee249]

IIRC, the older children were going to meet them in MI. Did the cops check that out to see if that was true or were they really flying right into Boulder. I remember there was talk that someone, Archuletta?, was supposed to change their flights and bring them to Boulder after JB was found?

I doubt the police checked anything about the older kids' flights. I assume they were traveling commercial flights, but if they were traveling on a private plane such as JR's plane, passenger lists are not always kept or provided- sometimes no flight plan is required to be filed either.

 

[midwest mama]

I doubt the police checked anything about the older kids' flights. I assume they were traveling commercial flights, but if they were traveling on a private plane such as JR's plane, passenger lists are not always kept or provided- sometimes no flight plan is required to be filed either.

According to one of the two Ramsey books, (sorry can't remember which one) the older R kids and fiance were booked on commercial flights to Minneapolis, where the R's were planning to meet up with them in JR's plane, then on to Michigan. Arculetta was slated to be the pilot. JR said he chose commercial flights for them to Minneapolis because they were cheaper, and MA was flying because JR said he'd been having eye problems. But I also seem to recall that JR planned on being co-pilot/navigator.

 

[andreww]

The thing that bothers me about the trip to the airport is how they were going to get there. In Johns statement he said they were taking a taxi. Yet Patsy states that she has already put packed items in the car. It's odd that at 7:45 am, 45 minutes before they were to leave, that they hadn't even agreed on how they were going to get there.


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[midwest mama]

The thing that bothers me about the trip to the airport is how they were going to get there. In Johns statement he said they were taking a taxi. Yet Patsy states that she has already put packed items in the car. It's odd that at 7:45 am, 45 minutes before they were to leave, that they hadn't even agreed on how they were going to get there.


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Both of the R vehicles were on a Search Warrant list. Easy enough for LE to check out which statement might have been the truth. I do recall that JR made a 3 hr afternoon visit on Christmas day to the airport to load things onto the plane and make sure things were jake for the flight.

Space and weight of cargo was an issue...to the point PR said their additional clothes for MI were going into a plastic bag. Would there be additional space the morning of the flight above and beyond for pkgs other than the clothing bags? Especially when the older kids would surely have additional luggage with them that would have unknown space requirements?

 

[midwest mama]

The conflicting account of airport transportation clearly demonstrated why it was important as the investigation went on that the R's were not separated during interviews. Mr. Wood wasn't on a big payroll for nothin', after all.

 

[andreww]

Just seems that it was odd that investigators never asked follow up questions regarding these inconsistencies. I mean Patsy's timeline was a mess, wakes after John, 20-30 mins for makeup and dressing, 10 mins in laundry area, yet she makes the 911 call at 5:47. And none of the investigators said "let's go over this again"??


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[Chelly]

Does anyone really care what time the Ramseys SAID they got up that morning?

We know the R's lie more often than they speak truth.

Most likely they never went to bed at all that night.

 

[andreww]

I understand that. The problem that I have is that LE didn't seem to do their job when they had them for the interviews. IMO they simply talked about too many things and didn't focus on what was important.

For instance, Patsy's explanation of that mornings events obviously don't add up with the timeline. From what I've seen on shows like The First 48 Hours, the proper procedure would be to leave her alone for a bit then come back and ask her to go over it again. This puts stress on her causing the second version to have inconsistencies. Then you leave her alone to sweat and come back again, this time being a little more blunt. Say things like "Patsy, we know you aren't being truthful about this...". Eventually she probably would have either broken down and cracked, or simply have gotten up and left. But that would have been a disaster for them in the court of public opinion.

I honestly think this case was easily solvable but LE was simply too intimidated by the Rs and their lawyers. In order for the investigation to succeed they needed one of the Ramsey's to crack which needed to be done via a tough interrogation, not by a friendly interview.

If I were in charge of the case I would have had them arrested on about the 3rd day as they were obviously suspects and there was obviously evidence that they were contemplating fleeing the state.


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[Arnie M]

My comments are regarding aircraft and may or may not apply to this case.

Even if you own your own personal jet it is not a matter of calling them and saying you want to go on a trip and want to leave in a few minutes. It is not like calling up a taxi. A pilot and co-pilot have to be notified , they have to be well rested , in wintertime the interior of the aircraft is usually warmed up using ground equipment , or if the aircraft has been kept in a hangar it has to be towed out to the ramp etc etc .

And if it is on Christmas day , or the day after Christmas , it would take even longer to put all the required personnel in place.

Not to mention filing flight plans , setting up navigational aids , determining weather at departure , enroute , and destination

best wishes