GUILTY Turkey - Sarai Sierra, 33, NY woman murdered, Istanbul, 21 Jan 2013 - #4

[belimom]

A random attack is a harder pill for me to swallow, for many reasons. I guess the first being that we're all in danger if the bogeyman is waiting around the next corner or at the next secluded spot we may walk through. I find it easier to think that her careless actions (of which she had plenty, no disrespect meant) led to her death rather than some stranger - and Sarai just happening to be at the wrong place at the wrong time.

I'm still not 100% convinced either. But I guess DNA will tell.

I also don't find it odd that a trash collector was covered in mud. When we lived in Egypt, the trash collectors that came down our street (including a young girl who helped her father pick through the trash) were always filthy - and understandably so considering what they did day in and day out to survive. I'm guessing this guy was really covered in mud to have stood out that much, huh?

I need to process this a bit.

(It's also a reminder of how much of your life can become public in the blink of an eye, whether guilty or not).

 

[Herat]

scratches and bruises though? head trauma. a train wouldve mangled her pretty badly. not thst I know much about getting hit by trains.

She doesn't necessarily have to be bisected by the train running over her. People have been killed when hit by the rear-view mirrors on passing cars and trucks. I thought about that for a bit, too. Getting spun as you fall could cause a big hip bruise and maybe three broken fingers.

It's the broken fingers that I don't quite get. As explained before, broken fingernails in an assault, yes. Fingers not very common and almost have to be flat against a surface to be broken.

 

[lavy]

Right, or even murder. How did the media get this story?

Maybe, just maybe LE released that information on purpose so people who know him will let LE know if they see him. I can't see this happening though.

 

[alpmighty]

If you watch the documentary someone posted somewhere around page 22, or at least the first 2 minutes of it. Some of the recyclers and scrappers were discussing what school they went to and things like that. I don't think they're all homeless and uneducated. There seems to be a variety, much like here in the United States. I've seen scrappers that were college kids, some just earning extra money to buy bait to fish, some homeless, some mentally ill and some are addicts.

College education at state universities in Turkey is free. High school degrees has been mandatory for quite some time. Even the the most financially challenged person can get himself in a state university if he can manage to pass the centralized exams. However top universities are extremely competitive, as demand for them is infinitely higher. Some foundation backed universities share the top with some distinguished state universities and their tuition are almost at the same level with some of the US colleges.

 

[Rolandred]

Just curious. How did the Turkish tabloid media get this story when LE had apparently just said they had only released 5% of info and were waiting for 2 more weeks to be certain of information before making public?

 

[ThinkHard]

If Sarai had headphones in while she was taking pictures, it's entirely possible Z (or her killer if it turns out not to be Z) had her gagged or incapacitated before she even knew he was there.

I actually hope he hit her before she knew he was there. That would be the kindest death in this situation.

But if he hit her first, she probably wouldn't have all the other wounds, sadly.

 

[EncyclopediaBrown]

She doesn't necessarily have to be bisected by the train running over her. People have been killed when hit by the rear-view mirrors on passing cars and trucks. I thought about that for a bit, too. Getting spun as you fall could cause a big hip bruise and maybe three broken fingers.

It's the broken fingers that I don't quite get. As explained before, broken fingernails in an assault, yes. Fingers not very common and almost have to be flat against a surface to be broken.

interesting observation with the broken fingers. theories?

 

[NewYork625]

She doesn't necessarily have to be bisected by the train running over her. People have been killed when hit by the rear-view mirrors on passing cars and trucks. I thought about that for a bit, too. Getting spun as you fall could cause a big hip bruise and maybe three broken fingers.

It's the broken fingers that I don't quite get. As explained before, broken fingernails in an assault, yes. Fingers not very common and almost have to be flat against a surface to be broken.

Broken fingers are possibly defensive wounds. She held her hand up to protect her head and the assailant hit her fingers with the rock. Or...she tumbled down the embankment with her assailant?

 

[EncyclopediaBrown]

Broken fingers are possibly defensive wounds. She held her hand up to protect her head and the assailant hit her fingers with the rock. Or...she tumbled down the embankment with her assailant?

falling on them makes sense.

 

[alpmighty]

Just curious. How did the Turkish tabloid media get this story when LE had apparently just said they had only released 5% of info and were waiting for 2 more weeks to be certain of information before making public?

It must have been leaked on purpose by LE. I think they want to increase the pressure on him, preventing anyone close to him to aid him. Aiding a fugitive is serious trouble in Turkey. And right now, with this leak, LE just turned Z into 'hot'. No one on their right minds, however closely associated with him, would want him around or even be seen with him.

As this is a case that has an extremely high profile, no sane LE officer would be foolish enough to leak something unauthorized. This is not a average Joe or Jane case. It's on headlines, and related unauthorized leaks will be traced, and LE officers responsible will be severely reprimanded. This is also why the press were having a field day with all types of speculation they could derive from publicly accessible social networking sites. LE isn't giving them anything. LE has to play this by the book, which says unauthorized leakage of information is verbotten. If this was a murder case which only made the third page, rest assured, press would be able to feed on unauthorized leaks through their regular LE contacts. But this time, those contacts will not talk, unless they are authorized. Regular 'singing' type LE contacts are scared for their necks.

Also accuracy of the information press has been given almost guarantees that it isn't speculation. Press reported Z's age accurately, it's not just "he is around 40s" type of reporting, press says Z is exactly 46 years old.

Information this accurate can only be accessible to LE. Tell me, how many of your professional acquintances' exact birth years are known to you? Factor that with knowing there's no social networking, Internet communications in your life, you are another scavanger / homeless that happen to know Z. Would you be able to say his accurate age? Sure, you'd be able to recount his first name, where he is from and his appearence. But his exact age? Nope.

If the exact age is leaked, this means LE has his full identity, and in Turkey, LE can list your relatives based on your ID number in mere seconds. Turkey is a security centric state and ID records and such are highly centralized, accessible and well organized.

This has been a message for Z's relatives, acquintances, tribesman, kinsman and as such, I think, telling them to beware of him. If not, it is serving another purpose which can be debated.

But this is purposedly done, rest assured.

 

[EncyclopediaBrown]

night-night guys. been nice chewing on some new info. hope tomorrow brings more bits.

 

[SANDOVAL]

falling on them makes sense.

Which hand was it, just one? Was it her camera hand?

 

[KuriousKev]

A random attack is a harder pill for me to swallow, for many reasons. I guess the first being that we're all in danger if the bogeyman is waiting around the next corner or at the next secluded spot we may walk through. I find it easier to think that her careless actions (of which she had plenty, no disrespect meant) led to her death rather than some stranger - and Sarai just happening to be at the wrong place at the wrong time.

I'm still not 100% convinced either. But I guess DNA will tell. I also don't find it odd that a trash collector was covered in mud. When we lived in Egypt, the trash collectors that came down our street (including a young girl who helped her father pick through the trash) were always filthy - and understandably so considering what they did day in and day out to survive. I'm guessing this guy was really covered in mud to have stood out that much, huh?

I need to process this a bit.

(It's also a reminder of how much of your life can become public in the blink of an eye, whether guilty or not).

This case received an extraordinary amount of media coverage and cannot go unsolved. LE will falsify a DNA match.

 

[necco]

College education at state universities in Turkey is free. High school degrees has been mandatory for quite some time. Even the the most financially challenged person can get himself in a state university if he can manage to pass the centralized exams. However top universities are extremely competitive, as demand for them is infinitely higher. Some foundation backed universities share the top with some distinguished state universities and their tuition are almost at the same level with some of the US colleges.

If this was about me saying college kids are sometimes scrappers, I meant for stuff like beer money. Does Turkey provide free beer? *starts to pack to move to Turkey if the answer is yes*

 

[alpmighty]

This case received an extraordinary amount of media coverage and cannot go unsolved. LE will falsify a DNA match.

That'd be impossible. By design, forensics aren't directly handled or administrated by LE to prevent exactly the same thing you were saying.

The world is watching. World press is onto this. US LE is on this. US State Dept is on this. US FedGov has enough resources and certain assets to follow through the case and be aware of any cover-up/scapegoat type gundecking.

I'd doubt even if PM himself would be able to succeed if he ordered a cover-up or scapegoat type quick fix. And he wouldn't, that I know for sure. As any successful politician, he's extremely pragmatic. Add to that the fact that he is actually pious and observant, there remains no room for gundecking. Quite the opposite, I'm sure he's personally frustrated with the case as well.

This case cannot be gundecked.

 

[Herat]

I have believe the three broken fingers are the middle fingers on the right hand. In the photos we have seen, this the hand that usually holds her camera while the left index finger presses the shutter button.

The pattern implies a defensive -hand up to ward off blow - posture. But the fingers being flexible usually don't absorb the impact enough to cause three bones to fracture. It also means implies the head blows are another swing, maybe several more. One could also break fingers by dropping something on them from above. The fractures imply a very heavy object or unusually heavy swing or blunt force.

I also temper the train trauma theory by the point that the trains are either just pulling into or have just left Serkeci Station and are not going at a full speed.

Ed to add: This also implies she is right-handed, in my opinion.

 

[alpmighty]

If this was about me saying college kids are sometimes scrappers, I meant for stuff like beer money. Does Turkey provide free beer? *starts to pack to move to Turkey if the answer is yes*

Not directly! But I'm sure certain social security resources can be rerouted to obtain beer for no cost.

And no, even a penniless person that made into a state university doesn't need to scavenge for his cost of life type expenses. If you are penniless, state gives you a monthly allowance, provides a dorm and even meals at no charge. You just have to apply for relevant gov run program. Turkey is a social security state.

 

[Rolandred]

It must have been leaked on purpose by LE. I think they want to increase the pressure on him, preventing anyone close to him to aid him. Aiding a fugitive is serious trouble in Turkey. And right now, with this leak, LE just turned Z into 'hot'. No one on their right minds, however closely associated with him, would want him around or even be seen with him.

As this is a case that has an extremely high profile, no sane LE officer would be foolish enough to leak something unauthorized. This is not a average Joe or Jane case. It's on headlines, and related unauthorized leaks will be traced, and LE officers responsible will be severely reprimanded. This is also why the press were having a field day with all types of speculation they could derive from publicly accessible social networking sites. LE isn't giving them anything. LE has to play this by the book, which says unauthorized leakage of information is verbotten. If this was a murder case which only made the third page, rest assured, press would be able to feed on unauthorized leaks through their regular LE contacts. But this time, those contacts will not talk, unless they are authorized. Regular 'singing' type LE contacts are scared for their necks.

Also accuracy of the information press has been given almost guarantees that it isn't speculation. Press reported Z's age accurately, it's not just "he is around 40s" type of reporting, press says Z is exactly 46 years old.

Information this accurate can only be accessible to LE. Tell me, how many of your professional acquintances' exact birth years are known to you? Factor that with knowing there's no social networking, Internet communications in your life, you are another scavanger / homeless that happen to know Z. Would you be able to say his accurate age? Sure, you'd be able to recount his first name, where he is from and his appearence. But his exact age? Nope.

If the exact age is leaked, this means LE has his full identity, and in Turkey, LE can list your relatives based on your ID number in mere seconds. Turkey is a security centric state and ID records and such are highly centralized, accessible and well organized.

This has been a message for Z's relatives, acquintances, tribesman, kinsman and as such, I think, telling them to beware of him. If not, it is serving another purpose which can be debated.

But this is purposely done, rest assured.

Okay. So LE leaked this - but who says this guy is guilty?

Can we assume that LE (as quoted by the press) leaked the sex in the bathroom info too? I remember reading this was explicitly said LE leaked that info. So was that a lie or truth? Every media outlet went on with that story - then it was changed to just coffee - by a lawyer - never LE. Either the media or LE is leaking untrue or true info. Whichever it is, who knows. Sometimes a tactic is to release information about high profile cases at different time intervals - true or not - as to confuse media, public, and general interest to create apathy about the case in general - and then - poof! Away it goes...into something unsolved. I see this case going that way.

 

[KuriousKev]

That'd be impossible. By design, forensics aren't directly handled or administrated by LE to prevent exactly the same thing you were saying.

The world is watching. World press is onto this. US LE is on this. US State Dept is on this. US FedGov has enough resources and certain assets to follow through the case and be aware of any cover-up/scapegoat type gundecking.

I'd doubt even if PM himself would be able to succeed if he ordered a cover-up or scapegoat type quick fix. And he wouldn't, that I know for sure. As any successful politician, he's extremely pragmatic. Add to that the fact that he is actually pious and observant, there remains no room for gundecking. Quite the opposite, I'm sure he's personally frustrated with the case as well.

This case cannot be gundecked.

You sound so sure of yourself but I'm not buying it...anything is possible. Any systems and policies produced, managed and run by humans can be tampered with, corrupted and altered.

 

[SANDOVAL]

I have believe the three broken fingers are the middle fingers on the right hand. In the photos we have seen, this the hand that usually holds her camera while the left index finger presses the shutter button.

The pattern implies a defensive -hand up to ward off blow - posture. But the fingers being flexible usually don't absorb the impact enough to cause three bones to fracture. It also means implies the head blows are another swing, maybe several more. One could also break fingers by dropping something on them from above. The fractures imply a very heavy object or unusually heavy swing or blunt force.

I also temper the train trauma theory by the point that the trains are either just pulling into or have just left Serkeci Station and are not going at a full speed.

Just supposing only....if one were to be suddenly horrified to find a train coming, possibly slipped as well, what do people in movies do?...they lie down between the tracks and wait for train to pass over, but the bottom of the train might have protruding pieces of hardware that cause fatal injuries.