GUILTY Turkey - Sarai Sierra, 33, NY woman murdered, Istanbul, 21 Jan 2013 - #6

[pbj]

Still think Z. is the man but if he isn't:

For tourism sake LE is under pressure to get a wrap on the murder...since murders never happen here (liked Sandoval's joke on the last thread the it's very safe here..unless you're murdered or commit suicide). Suicide seems to be on the upswing in the area. (All CIA agents lurking around bridges?.) just adding a little levity here...and not meaning to offend our Turkish sleuths, who are always patient and informative.

Why did they discredit, the white car and the woman's hand form a blanket. (Taylan doesn't have access to a white car does he?)

Why did they originally think it could have been a professional killing? No fingerprints? Just poor, homeless Z's blanket?

Were the other homeless throwing Z. under the bus (they'd been eyeing his cave?) with the corroborating statements of seen dirty with scratches?

Just stirring the pot.

 

[SANDOVAL]

Still think Z. is the man but if he isn't:

For tourism sake LE is under pressure to get a wrap on the murder...since murders never happen here (liked Sandoval's joke on the last thread the it's very safe here..unless you're murdered or commit suicide). Suicide seems to be on the upswing in the area. (All CIA agents lurking around bridges?.) just adding a little levity here...and not meaning to offend our Turkish sleuths, who are always patient and informative.

Why did they discredit, the white car and the woman's hand form a blanket. (Taylan doesn't have access to a white car does he?)

Why did they originally think it could have been a professional killing? No fingerprints? Just poor, homeless Z's blanket?

Were the other homeless throwing Z. under the bus (they'd been eyeing his cave?) with the corroborating statements of seen dirty with scratches?

Just stirring the pot.

I think it was a knowledgeable Turk here who said the white car make and model was not, shall one say 'high class' and he/she doubted that T would have such a jalopy.

 

[Fantazteko]

No his brother said in a recent article " I don`t care if he did this or not' I worry for his life. I want police to take him and find out if he is guilt or not. " He is really not sure whether Z. killed SS.

I reread the posts in question and realize now it was my mistake. His brother is simply ashamed of all the public attention.

But still my question stands: if Ziya is innocent and knows he is being hunted down for this murder, why has he not come forward like the wrongly accused man he supposedly is? Why keep running?

He seems to have his family’s support, unless the brother’s actions can be culturally interpreted some other way.

He’s in a position to help himself, and I imagine providing information, clarifying the minor role he played, naming suspects, &c, would be a relief for a man with such a heavy burden on his shoulders.

Maybe his involvement wasn’t as unsophisticated as we have speculated.

 

[pbj]

Thanks for the info Sandoval...he was unemployed , though, and his claimed status was via his attorney. Don't envision T driving a Mercedes...maybe doesn't even have a car, though.

 

[Fantazteko]

Still think Z. is the man but if he isn't:

Were the other homeless throwing Z. under the bus (they'd been eyeing his cave?) with the corroborating statements of seen dirty with scratches?

Just stirring the pot.

With the bad reputation interrogations have—beatings, intimidation, various other coercive procedures—it’s probably safe to assume Ziya’s neighbours gave up all they knew, but which might’ve turned out differently if they’re hardened criminals.

If I understood your point correctly, I guess the question we should be asking ourselves is whether purveyors of such a lie would perpetuate it after observing the seriousness of the crime only increase, and media coverage reach international proportions.

It’s hard to imagine someone would go to these lengths simply to raid Ziya’s cave. But I’m sure stranger, more senseless schemes have been conceived.

 

[ThinkHard]

I couldn’t quote posts from the previous thread, so what is written here relates to previous statements made by others.

If Ziya does suffer from a mental illness like schizophrenia, I think his being a junkie would exacerbate his condition.

Regarding the Grim Sleeper, I confused the two, since several years after the crimes both were linked by DNA evidence to several unsolved murders.

But you’re correct, they are two different individuals, who made the headlines at roughly the same time. My mistake.

Another thing is that if it’s true Ziya’s brother believes he’s guilty and is planning to publickly demand that he turn himself in, why could his family not organize in this same fashion to proclaim his innocence?

And again, I am confused. first one post says Ziya's brother thinks he's guilty and wants him to give up. Now a more recent post says the brother wants to secure his safety.

Anyway, could such a man really have no person in the entire world on whom he can depend?

I wrote a few posts back that Ziya could request assistance from any international organization like HRW, or any religious organization, some politician, but was told such a feat would be impossible to carry out, because it’s Turkey.

Now this doesn’t seem so impossible for someone like Ziya who is in the spotlight. Maybe it’s my poor understanding and knowledge of Turkish culture, but people on here seem to be providing conflicting information.

He needs to muster up some courage and find a way to rally the appropriate people to his cause, and start cooperating, otherwise he’ll just keep resembling a fugitive.

I think the idea that the media or a politician is going to come to the rescue of a homeless man is more of an ideal then a reality. Casey Anthony was proven innocent in a court of law, the media certainly was not helping her cause, the only helped crucify and vilify her in the court of public opinion. What you are suggesting in theory is nice, but I just don't think it is the reality of the world. And certainly not the reality accessible to a homeless man with no connections, and his DNA at the crime scene of a murdered American tourist.

 

[SophieRose]

This is an interesting idea, that Ziya could have bought a ticket and not used it. I too had thought Syria a strange destination, even though the turmoil there might work in his favor. But since he's from northern Turkey, I wouldn't think he would fit in there.

In fact at first I had thought maybe he went to Batumi/Georgia--I guess because of his being known as "Laz Ziya," I had thought he was from the northeast, and this would be the closest border to his hometown. But I was completely wrong. Karabük is in the northwest, not the northeast.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...tests-trail-blood-possible-murder-weapon.html

The search for the Staten Island woman's murderer has again gone beyond Turkey after a team of investigators were dispatched to the Georgian city of Batumi near the Turkish border.

 

[ThinkHard]

I don't think Ziya is running from police, I think he is running from something else.

I'm not sure who....

....but i was thinking about why a homeless man who has committed petty crimes to go to prison in the winter, (and who told people he had only 6 months to live), would be so afraid to go to prison again, even for murder....that he would flee to war torn Syria where he would easily stand out.

It just doesn't make sense....it doesn't seem to me like it would be the law or prison he would be in so much fear of to make such a journey.

I was also tossing around in my head, the fact he supposedly told someone he had a friend from military service who lived in hatay and could help him....but it turns out he didn't.....if he did have some involvement in this crime but his involvement was recruited but someone with more resources....could they possibly have promised him resources to flee into Syria....could the connect in hatay not be a lie, but the lie was that the connect was a military companion?

Could this connect have gotten him across the boarder only to kill him after?

Just pondering.

 

[SophieRose]

English translation of a 2/20 Turkish article with lots of information.

http://english.sabah.com.tr/national/2013/02/20/police-identify-sarai-sierras-murderer

 

[ThinkHard]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...tests-trail-blood-possible-murder-weapon.html

In the link it says that article is from feb 15. I'm not seeing anything in it with the quote about Georgia. Where in the article do they mention this?

 

[ThinkHard]

English translation of a 2/20 Turkish article with lots of information.

http://english.sabah.com.tr/national/2013/02/20/police-identify-sarai-sierras-murderer

Interesting. They make a huge point in this article to,say the tiny bit of blood on SS shirt was a 100 percent match to the hair found on the pillow used by Ziya at his brothers house. Yet oddly enough they make no mention of any DNA being found under her finger nails.

Was there no DNA under her nails? Was there DNA but it was not a match? Did they just not bother to report this peice? Weird? I think.

 

[SophieRose]

In the link it says that article is from feb 15. I'm not seeing anything in it with the quote about Georgia. Where in the article do they mention this?

8th paragraph from the top, just the one sentence.

 

[zarra30]

English translation of a 2/20 Turkish article with lots of information.

http://english.sabah.com.tr/national/2013/02/20/police-identify-sarai-sierras-murderer

SRose, thanks for the article.

This part:
"Hasan B. (34) who is a homeless resident in the area where Sierra's body was found and has provided a blood sample in the investigation told police, "Sierra was wandering around the city walls. She took a photo of us with her camera. Then she wandered off. About ten minutes later we heard screaming." According to the statements obtained by locals, the perpetrators threw Sierra's telephone and iPad into the sea. Sierra had used both to take photographs that day of what could have been her murderers. Homicide Bureau detectives are now looking for these two items."

I hope the LE look real close at Hassan B., because I don't buy for a second that she took pictures of these guys. I think it's BS. I don't know any New Yorker who views 'homeless people' or 'scavengers' as curiosities or fodder for a Kodak moment.

Maybe someone who was researching the subject of homelessness might want to snap some photos, but not without asking or paying and I doubt a single woman would take that chance.

They just aren't 'freaky' or 'intriguing' to us. They're viewed as down on their luck, drifters, high, or outpatients, and most homeless shun the shelters, so we see them on the ferries, on the subway, in the parks, and on the street. They're a common sight but no one stops to stare or gaze at them. Most people walk on by or occasionally give a few coins.
Hurricane Sandy brought a new wave of working educated temporarily homeless.

Not to mention her pics on IG were usually of linear arrangements, buildings, city sculptures, devoid of human subjects.

I think the chances of her taking pictures of Hassan and his pals are as likely as her running around in a mosque snapping photos of Islamic people in prayer. Not happening. IMO

Just hope LE has the foresight to ask her friends and family if she had a predilection for such subjects.

 

[Chewy]

SRose, thanks for the article.

This part:
"Hasan B. (34) who is a homeless resident in the area where Sierra's body was found and has provided a blood sample in the investigation told police, "Sierra was wandering around the city walls. She took a photo of us with her camera. Then she wandered off. About ten minutes later we heard screaming." According to the statements obtained by locals, the perpetrators threw Sierra's telephone and iPad into the sea. Sierra had used both to take photographs that day of what could have been her murderers. Homicide Bureau detectives are now looking for these two items."

I hope the LE look real close at Hassan B., because I don't buy for a second that she took pictures of these guys. I think it's BS. I don't know any New Yorker who views 'homeless people' or 'scavengers' as curiosities or fodder for a Kodak moment.

Maybe someone who was researching the subject of homelessness might want to snap some photos, but not without asking or paying and I doubt a single woman would take that chance.

They just aren't 'freaky' or 'intriguing' to us. They're viewed as down on their luck, drifters, high, or outpatients, and most homeless shun the shelters, so we see them on the ferries, on the subway, in the parks, and on the street. They're a common sight but no one stops to stare or gaze at them. Most people walk on by or occasionally give a few coins.
Hurricane Sandy brought a new wave of working educated temporarily homeless.

Not to mention her pics on IG were usually of linear arrangements, buildings, city sculptures, devoid of human subjects.

I think the chances of her taking pictures of Hassan and his pals are as likely as her running around in a mosque snapping photos of Islamic people in prayer. Not happening. IMO

Just hope LE has the foresight to ask her friends and family if she had a predilection for such subjects.

I wonder why he said she took a picture with a camera when it's clear she definitely didn't have a camera.

 

[zarra30]

I wonder why he said she took a picture with a camera when it's clear she definitely didn't have a camera.

Chewy, you nailed it.
So true.

 

[ThinkHard]

SRose, thanks for the article.

This part:
"Hasan B. (34) who is a homeless resident in the area where Sierra's body was found and has provided a blood sample in the investigation told police, "Sierra was wandering around the city walls. She took a photo of us with her camera. Then she wandered off. About ten minutes later we heard screaming." According to the statements obtained by locals, the perpetrators threw Sierra's telephone and iPad into the sea. Sierra had used both to take photographs that day of what could have been her murderers. Homicide Bureau detectives are now looking for these two items."

I hope the LE look real close at Hassan B., because I don't buy for a second that she took pictures of these guys. I think it's BS. I don't know any New Yorker who views 'homeless people' or 'scavengers' as curiosities or fodder for a Kodak moment.

Maybe someone who was researching the subject of homelessness might want to snap some photos, but not without asking or paying and I doubt a single woman would take that chance.

They just aren't 'freaky' or 'intriguing' to us. They're viewed as down on their luck, drifters, high, or outpatients, and most homeless shun the shelters, so we see them on the ferries, on the subway, in the parks, and on the street. They're a common sight but no one stops to stare or gaze at them. Most people walk on by or occasionally give a few coins.
Hurricane Sandy brought a new wave of working educated temporarily homeless.

Not to mention her pics on IG were usually of linear arrangements, buildings, city sculptures, devoid of human subjects.

I think the chances of her taking pictures of Hassan and his pals are as likely as her running around in a mosque snapping photos of Islamic people in prayer. Not happening. IMO

Just hope LE has the foresight to ask her friends and family if she had a predilection for such subjects.

I never believed the idea that she took pictures of homeless men. She doesn't have a single picture of a person in all her IG photos, it just doesn't seem to be within her genre of photography.

Also it seems ridiculous to think she had out both her iPad and her camera to take photos. You would have one out taking photos, not both. She even said on IG she used her iPad to edit not to take photos. iPads do not take good photos. They are pretty grainy. My iPhone 4 takes far better pictures then my iPad 2.

I think this guys statement is bogus and always have. It also makes the statements about the scratches on Z, him being covered in mud, and hearing screams less believable as well.

Something (or many things) are not as thy appear in this case. I know it seems obvious to say a crazy homeless took advantage of a wandering tourist....but I think there is more to this case.

I don't know what, which is why I think its good to look in lots of directions, but I don't think things are cut and dry here.

 

[ThinkHard]

Chewy, you nailed it.
So true.

I agree the wording is weird. But he could have meant camera on her phone, opposed to camera camera. Regardless I don't believe him.

 

[ThinkHard]

Also strange this guy didn't come forward with these claims until well after it was widely reported that she came to Istanbul for photography and had been seen around Istanbul taking pictures. And even with what devices she had.

If his story were true these are all things he would have known, and could have told police well before all this was revealed in the news. It seems more like he used what was reported in the news to build his supposed claims and witness statements around.

 

[zarra30]

I agree the wording is weird. But he could have meant camera on her phone, opposed to camera camera. Regardless I don't believe him.

Maybe, but how would anyone know for sure she was taking a picture on her phone. I'm guessing all the press when she was missing for 12 days was about her being a 'photographer' and it would be easy for them to pick up on that and try to use that in their 'bogus' sighting of her 'wandering away from them' and 10 minutes later that scream. Like you and Chewy say, not believable.

 

[ThinkHard]

Holes holes holes just more holes.

If this were JUST a single crazy homeless man, attacking a tourist who found herself in the wrong place at the wrong time.

What's with the intense effort to flee to a war torn country?

What's with all the BS witness statements?

What's with the claim Z was informed by a cop to flee cause they will pin it on him?