CONVICTION OVERTURNED TX - Mineola Swinger's Club Child Sex Ring, 2008

Will this never end for these poor kids?

The foster father who has been taking care of the three kids from this horrific case has now been arrested. John Orville Cantrell has been arrested for seuxally assaulting a child under 16 in 1991.

Cantrell's wife, Margie says it's all a set-up and payment for them somehow getting involved with this Mineola Swinger's Club case. Apparently they've fostered many, many kids. Mr.s Cantrell also claims the three kids were wild when she got them. Ummmmm, I'd guess so, lady.:rolleyes:

Unbelievable. At the end of the last trial for one of these perverts JC said he's going to love these kids like a father. Does it ever end? Ever?


http://www.reporternews.com/news/2008/jun/22/foster-dad-of-alleged-sex-club-victims-arrested/

I really missed this case when it started, and so would like to verify the bolded sections. anyone?

Was JCl convicted? Or did he even go to trial?

Also, were some of the convictions .. booger red, etc. .. declared mistrials, to be retried?

If I don't get off this computer and go to bed, I'll get my second wind (as usual) and be up til 3 a.m.
 
Some interesting comments, which are "all over the board":

http://undergroundunbeliever.blogspot.com/2008/06/pervert-alert-horrifying-molestion-case.html

(Note: A little language)

Some of these comments, IMO, are very sensationalistic. I have LIVED this life for 25 years and I know where to raise my eyebrows and where to accept something as just a family choice. Extremely large foster/adoptive homes are not without their supporters and their detractors. It's a high profile life and one in which many observers feel permitted to comment about. If someone truly witnesses child abuse or neglect, they really need to report the family to DHS.

That said, I do fully agree that foster children should be in public school and usually are required to be. I agree that there needs to be an eyes-on approach. If the C family was receiving high level rates I think they were, I can assure everyone that these kids would have been flooded with therapy, psychiatry, Regional Center, home health, and medical appointments. We raised 13 and set our limit at 4 appointments per day. That is a lot of work. You just do not receive those rates in F/C and not follow through. The children would be removed. In California, there are checks and balances concerning the required supervisory visits and the twice yearly appearance before a Citizen's Review Board. Most children also have CASAs who are mandated to meet privately with a child every 4-6 weeks. It is entirely true that if a family is well respected and has a great track record that something might be allowed to slide but not with a super large family and one with a parent with a confrontational personality. I can't buy that.

The children involved in the trial were from Texas and as far as I know are still foster children. The C family would have physical custody but the only person to call the shots and make the decisions for those children would be their legal guardian, a worker at DHS. Where is this person and is he/she advocating for these children?

I think it's quite clear that MC has a temper and is a very demanding and brash woman. I don't care for that approach with DHS and I'm shocked she got as far as she did (I'm still thinking she took the hardest of the hard to place). That's surely not my "style" but that doesn't prove to me that she abused her children.

Texas approved this family for F/C after they arrived in the state. They would have done a full background check, fingerprinting, and home certification visits. As unlikable as this mother seems to be to some, the State must bear responsibility for these children. They chose this family for these children. They seem to be allowing the children to stay and they allowed the style of questioning.

I'm not trying to defend the mother. I'm simply trying to stay as reasonable as possible and shine some light on what I believe to be typical and atypical within the realm of large foster families. No one who parents 40 children is going to get out alive without several "reports" and a wide array of success/failure stories. Some children will bond and some will not. Some children will think they have the most wonderful parents in the world and will defend them forever. Others will not. We have to remember the very real issue of "imported pathology".
 
Missizzy - Could you be a little more clear as to what you think about this whole situation. I got the informative part of your post, but not a good feel for what you are thinking here. You may have done that purposefully and that is okay. Just thought I would ask, in case you were willing to put it out there. I have serious concerns about this entire case and these children.
 
Teedie, it's being reported that charges were dropped due to the statute of limitations. The allegations were made by 2 sisters, and a third sister stated she had known about the abuse for years and believed her sisters. However, one of the alleged victims did not want to be involved.

The answer to your second question is yes. Two of the three have been overturned because, basically, the defense was prohibited from putting on a defense. They think Mayo's case will be overturned too. Her lawyer did not complain about the right things in her appeal.

I've been doing some research on Judge Skeen. This one corrupt man. Seems when he was a DA, he prosecuted the famous case of German born Kerry Max Cook, an innocent man who spent 22 years on Death Row. You can read the story in Cook's own words here.

This misconduct included, but was not limited to, Mr. Jack Skeen hiding exculpatory evidence that was Sgt. Doug Collard’s secret admission before a finger-print licensing board he deliberately committed perjury when he aged the fingerprints found on the victim’s sliding patio door to coincide with the time of the murder thereby making them the murderer’s prints and specifically excluding any notion that they could be casual prints left days earlier. Sgt. Doug Collard stated he did in fact commit perjury, but he did so only at the behest of the District Attorney, Mr. A.D. Clark III. Mr. Skeen kept this document hidden from attorneys fighting for my life on the eve of my execution date, all the while arguing in legal Briefs before the United States Supreme Court that my fingerprints were six to twelve hours old, an expert said, placing me at the scene of the murder.

My "No Contest" plea to finally gain my freedom was based on my profound distrust of Mr. Skeen’s Administration to do the right thing and not engage in more misconduct to gain a third wrongful conviction; that they would once again lie, cheat and distort and/or hide the truth of my innocence from a jury.

.......

When the Crime Lab’s results finally came back two months after my No-Contest plea and the semen belonged to none other than James Mayfield - the original suspect as the victim’s married ex-lover — the District Attorney’s office simply removed the egg from their face and threw it my way, hoping it would stick and that the public wouldn’t remember that through two retrials they sponsored the testimony of James Mayfield that he was like a father figure to Ms. Edwards and therefore had absolutely no motive in this rape and murder.

Interesting. I first learned about this case from the blog, Grits For Breakfast. Seems a lot of people are concerned about what's going on in Smith County.

You know, the ends never justify the means. If you think a man is guilty, you give him a fair trial all the same. Do things the right way. You don't twist and lie and cover-up facts that are harmful to your side. That's playing dirty, and that's how innocent people are locked up.

IMO, people's reactions to this case are largely emotional. They're not based in logic and reason. Also, most everyone has some experience with child sex abuse (some of us more than others, like Missizzy), so this hits home for a lot of us. If our children speak up, if we speak up about something, we want to be believed, we need to be believed. Here we have children who all at first denied these allegations, a foster mom (who had just lost her certification in CA and fled to TX) who is known for being controlling, angry and manipulative (and also apparently known for accusing football coaches, etc of abuse in the past) who wouldn't take no for an answer and zero corroborating or physical evidence. There is no exhibit A.

Also, some of these children have told stories that are physically impossible (FLYING) and claim that there were dogs shot and hung in front of the building, women choked in front of churchgoers - there would HAVE to have been ONE witness. Combine that with one of them already recanting their story, and this looks real bad.

I believe in so little in this world, but I actually do believe in truth and justice. That is where my faith lies. Truth has a strange, sometimes unexplainable way of becoming known. It will come out. It has to.

I know some of these people are probably "sorry" people (I don't know about Booger or the MIL though, they seem alright so far), but if they aren't guilty of the charges, they're not guilty of the charges.

I've also been researching other cases of child sex abuse hysteria, Missizzy. (I'm a bit slower than you, I think!) But atleast 1 child in the McMartin preschool case did recant in 2005. She says...

Never did anyone do anything to me, and I never saw them doing anything. I said a lot of things that didn't happen. I lied. ... Anytime I would give them an answer that they didn't like, they would ask again and encourage me to give them the answer they were looking for. ... I felt uncomfortable and a little ashamed that I was being dishonest. But at the same time, being the type of person I was, whatever my parents wanted me to do, I would do

The only other case I've had time to read about, and is probably THE WORST, most heartbreaking child abuse scandal in history. Is the Wenatchee Sex Ring. Evil, really! Supposedly, it all started when Det Perez' 15 year old foster daughter told him she had been raped or molested by almost every adult she knew, and the same molestation had occurred to almost every other child she knew. Soon after, the pair around town with 2 CPS workers and she pointed out houses where it had taken place, even a pizza delivery man she spotted had raped her. Forty-three adults were arrested on 29,726 charges of child sex abuse, involving 60 children. If you read about this, be prepared to get angry. There are even claims that Perez broke a child's arm questioning them. They were called liars and told that if they didn't tell him what they wanted to hear, that their siblings would be separated in foster homes, etc. He even did this to the parents, coercing them into CONFESSIONS! Of course, he lied, because their children were taken away all the same. A local preacher criticized the arrests, and was promptly arrested and charged. Perez claimed ALL female children were examined and showed signs of penetration, and 75% of the males. One child said he or she knew for a fact they'd been molested because Perez had told them details about their mother's confession... a confession she had not made... YET. To say he screwed up lives in an understatement. And what was the motive? Were his intentions good somewhere deep inside? Makes me wonder.

I had heard of the daycare hysteria of the 1980's because I grew up in the 80's with a paranoid mother whose fears were realized in february 1987, when a child she had raised was actually killed by a (who might as well have been a devil worshipper). But part of me now feels like, in a way, I've been blind. This is scary indeed. If I'm ever called to serve on a jury, I promise I will be using logic and reason, no matter what. I know our justice system is flawed, but I think we have the right rules in place, if we can just all -- from judge to DA to jury -- follow them.
 
WARNING: We do not name minors! WS is very strict about this. Yes, the minors have been named in the news, but that is no reason to put their names all over our threads. Especially minors that have been or are in sex abuse cases. Minors are named ONLY they are a missing person victim or they are the Perp and the main stream media has named them. All other minor victims/case players are discussed by initial only and/or not discussed at all. In this case there are minor victims, so all discussion should be by initials ONLY.

I don't have time to read all the posts and fix them. Please go back through your posts and alert any post that needs to get fixed and I will take care of it through out the day as time permits.

I appreciate your cooperation in this matter. Let me know if you have any questions!

Salem
 
I would never do that on purpose! I swear it. Michael Hall had changed the names, and I used what he changed them to, but somehow one got through (unsure what source it originated from) which I realized this morning when I found an official document and promptly reported to a mod to fix. Which, it may already be. Just occurred to me you probably are that mod, so thank you for your help! Won't happen again! :)

PS. The other names were fakes, but thank you.
 
I found the Topix link which has quite a bit of discussion concerning this case. I have an observation to make though first.

I do NOT know the C family. I've mentioned that I met them briefly and have heard about them off and on over the years. We are both large adoptive families and that sets us apart in a unique category.

However, I'm appalled at the willingness of people to write such vitriol about a family. I learned early on, through a very experienced and well-respected large adoptive family mom, how to comport myself. I was advised to live a life of transparency (we didn't even have blinds), to report each and every little incident FIRST before anyone else did, to build strong relationships with schools, therapists, doctors and LE, to be respectful of caseworkers at all times (even if in a disagreement), to stay AWAY from the media as they are only looking for sensation, to keep our home a sanctuary with as much calm as possible, to follow the rules, and to never ask for money or to play on the public's perception of special needs children being needy of charity.

If someone were to ask me today how to succeed in this "world" of special needs adoption/foster care (there are often overlaps), this is the exact advice I would give. Often the general public has no idea how a "unique" family is watched and judged. Of course, we want children's safety to be of greatest concern but it is my experience that communities can be horrifically mean spirited about some "unique" families. It's almost as if they can never get anything right. They either dress their children poorly or too well. They either allow them to exhibit terrible manners or are too strict. They either are too protective or not protective enough. And where is the money going and how much are they getting? And the ever present are they "doing it for the money?"

When our rape trial was over, we considered moving back to California, to a town where our name would not be known. But we'd spent years building alliances and trust with so many community partners that we made the decision to stay. It takes a huge amount of energy to tell your children's stories over and over again and to make sure that everyone is on the same page. We decided to stay put and I'm glad we did.

My point here is that only the family themselves, the judge and the various caseworkers really know what goes on in this family. It is not for communities to judge. The children that fill these large homes are not the easiest children to raise, either. They bring their own baggage into the home--their own behaviors, hurts, trauma, distinct personalities and yes, gifts. Some families just seem able to handle the daily ups and downs better than others.

The successful families try their best to never create more crisis nor to thrive upon the inherent crisis but to rise above it and attempt to restore calm. JMO

Here's the link:

http://www.topix.com/forum/city/vacaville-ca/TKELE8F32702D9V3L
 
Maybe they were her children but they did not state that to conceal their identities. Poor kids, I hope she gets some good ol Texas justice in prison and her BF too.

I thought a sibling was a brother or sister or someone who had at least one of the same parents.
 
That topix link was the most confusing set of comments I have ever tried to make sense of. Obviously there are people who are on both sides. It's a shame that the truth, which probably lies somewhere in the middle, cannot be deciphered in this mess.
 
well i dont mean to be a debbie downer and I sure don't know much about fostering and adoption of special needs children nor about parents who adopt large number of children, but...I look at it this way:

I understand the need to give a poor child a home and someone to love him/her, but if you know going in that the child has mental, physically or emotional issues and you cant handle it then why adopt? Why subject a already hurt child to more issues and problems? What exactly motivates someone to adopt a large number of children? I've always wantd to ask someone that.

It just seems like a very stressful thing to do with very little reward. I understand the noble aspects of adoption, but I'm a little suspect sometimes. Not to sound cold, but it kind of reminds me of animal hoarding. People mean well, but also use children and animals as an emotional crutch. I think that most people are afraid to really go there. Not to say all adopters are like that, but i've seen some on TV and sometimes the parents give me a creepy feeling. Am I the only one???
 
I understand that. And I agree, most of us don't know what kind of judgement large families like this face. I hope you don't think I've judged them too harshly. Most of what you list are things that I know nothing about. Even if I had first hand knowledge of how the children dress, their manners, etc. It's still not something I'd have a clue about, nor would I judge it if I did. I went to school with kids who dressed poorly but actually were spoiled and lived in huge houses. And I think I may have been considered a kid with bad manners because I had a dirty mouth, depsite my mother's best intentions. I'm also pretty flexible when it comes to a parent's level of protection. I know I'll be an overprotective parent, but there are studies apparently that show that a child benefits greatly from unsupervised play. These are decisions parents have to make for themselves. Just like every woman has to decide for herself what she is going to give up in order to stay safe. For myself, I'm not willing to give up certain things because I like the feeling of doing things alone. Anyway, we're also talking about kids with behavioral problems and disabilities, so I sure wouldn't judge them for most things.

The only reason I did mention their income (and I had it wrong btw, that was in a year and half) is because that could absolutely be a motive. When it comes to being a good person, I really think you are in the top 1%. I don't know you, but I feel like I do. I guess you have experienced some of the same criticisms you are watching them receive. You are seeing yourself in them, and that is good.

But I have to say this, quite honestly, there really ARE foster parents who take in kids just for money. It's hard to believe, but it's true. I've even seen a case recently on one of those court shows like Judge Judy (both cases were thrown out because the judge said that's what they were doing). And I've read more than I could possibly remember just in the last few months on those depressing crime blogs I told you about. There was the lady who took one in and burned him repeatedly with a potato masher she heated up on the stove. It's just like teachers though. Teachers shouldn't take it personally, and it shouldn't reflect poorly on ALL of them, but there really are some awful teachers out there who should NOT be working with children. Mine was my 7th grade math teacher. I asked myself nearly everyday, "If she hate kids so much, why is she teaching 7th grade?" Old Mrs Ashford had to have had a reason though. And cops. Some people becomes cops so they can act like real jerks, and some have the best, most honorable intentions. They honestly want to serve and protect.

I guess my point is, don't let those judgements bother you. They are superficial and anyone who takes the time to get to know you, or anyone else really, will find out what you're all about.

As for the C's...

The fact is they were decertified in one state, and had recently moved to another. I am still unclear about WHY they were decertified (was it the molestation charges? because I thought one of those grown children followed them to TX) As I understand, these siblings/victims were her first foster children in TX.

If I had to guess, bad things probably did happen to those babies. I know for a fact they were neglected. I also know for a fact pedophiles prey on children who are being neglected. Maybe it was at the hands of drug addicted bio mom and/or her bf. But I don't think Mrs C did them any favors. I don't claim to know the truth, but I am highly skeptical of this big sex ring with the flying witches, costumes, dead dogs being shot and hung outside in broad daylight, people running out of church to hear what the commotion was after a woman was choked... I don't think it happened as it cannot be corroborated at all and there is not one witness. And I don't expect there to be a witness to the crimes. I'm talking any witness who saw anything just suspicious. Something or someone that can corroborate something. No, instead, the prosecution is hiding things. The outcry witness is pleading the fifth...

I guess I am also seeing myself in these people who have been arrested and charged with a crime that doesn't seem to have much merit. I'm human, and I live in the same country with the same justice system. Although I hope Alabama isn't as bad as Texas! I'm going to have to look into this as well.

Anyway, I only seek to understand. I don't want to judge these people too harshly, and I do listen to your insights. Thanks a ton for sharing all that you do with me!

PS. The comments that I'm reading that tick me off are the ones that say, "A hearing is a waste of tax payer money, just fry them!" Without knowing one single, solitary detail about the case other than that people are arrested and accused!
 
well i dont mean to be a debbie downer and I sure don't know much about fostering and adoption of special needs children nor about parents who adopt large number of children, but...I look at it this way:

I understand the need to give a poor child a home and someone to love him/her, but if you know going in that the child has mental, physically or emotional issues and you cant handle it then why adopt? Why subject a already hurt child to more issues and problems? What exactly motivates someone to adopt a large number of children? I've always wantd to ask someone that.

It just seems like a very stressful thing to do with very little reward. I understand the noble aspects of adoption, but I'm a little suspect sometimes. Not to sound cold, but it kind of reminds me of animal hoarding. People mean well, but also use children and animals as an emotional crutch. I think that most people are afraid to really go there. Not to say all adopters are like that, but i've seen some on TV and sometimes the parents give me a creepy feeling. Am I the only one???

My stepmother-in-law has over 20 indoor cats. Hearing that you might think she is a hoarder, but if you visit her home, you will find a clean cat haven. Despite her declining health, she scoops every litter box everyday, and changes every litter box every weekend, AND clips their nails, AND brushes their teeth. She has a special love for cats and a heart of gold. Some people are just like that, friend. They are rare gems, with hearts of gold and boundless love. They see children and animals who need that love, and they give literally all they are able to. They are living, breathing angels.

Hoarders are people who take animals, who live and die in awful conditions, and there is often dead animals, feces and urine all about their quarters. Totally different breed. Those people are crazy, and are not motivated by love.
 
Spacegirl--I have to laugh as I was all prepared to explain to burbqueen that she poses some really valid questions. I am certainly not offended by anyone questioning my way of life and I'm always ready to answer questions and attempt to educate. And then, Spacegirl, you posted the story above and it makes most of what I have to say irrelevant and moot.

No, your stepmother-in-law doesn't seem to be a hoarder to me. She seems unique in her love of cats and her ability and willingness to care for her dear pets. It sounds as if her cats are huge part of her life and most likely give her a lot of joy, satisfaction, purpose, and sadly, yes, heartache. Most likely she has money set aside to take care of all their vet bills and has plans for them if something were to happen to her. No doubt she would be a loving caregiver (own does not "own" cats, after all) to a single cat but that something drives her to have a little more challenge, a little more excitement. My guess is that she's very good at what she does. Most of us wouldn't want to trim a cat's claws for all the tea in China, but she does it all the time, with ease. Her life is a perfect analogy for what I was about to try to explain.

Another person could be a hoarder with 6 cats. Someone could have one and be an abuser. It's all in how it's done and the motivation. There are many of us who just enjoy a challenge. It's really no different than in any profession or avocation. Some bright medically trained person might want to read MRIs in a quiet office. Another wants to work the ER in a trauma hospital. One teacher wants to teach AP English in a private school and another longs to be placed in the special education program of an inner city school.

I find my life like that. I live in a nice town, read, knit, enjoy issues concerning child welfare and love to train and write on the subject. I kind of fell in sideways to the large adoptive family situation as I'm an only child and this life was totally outside my scope of experience. We'd adopted internationally twice (because we wanted little girls) before we learned of the hundreds of thousands of waiting US kids. I'd been a Head Start teacher in an all black school (I'm caucasian) and I had fallen hard for the little boys. When we were offered young black brothers, we fell head over heals. Because I'd also grown up with a special needs relative and had worked for years as a classroom aid in classrooms for profoundly affected special needs pre-schoolers, I knew what I wanted to do. We saw the need, the assistance made our dreams possible and we said, "yes".

We'd planned to have our kids young and then join the Peace Corps but we learned that there was such a need here. We knew parenting. We knew special needs. My husband is the only boy of ten and large families seemed the norm to him. It just seemed like a natural fit. We never planned a number. We never planned anything about it really. It just kind of evolved. DHS was very kind to us for the most part as we approached everything as a team effort. We didn't feel as it we had anything to prove.

We shunned the limelight but we never isolate ourselves. You would have never found our children on a calendar dressed all alike. Our children were our children, not a project. I find it questionable for any large family to flaunt themselves or promote themselves. You can just never be sure that every single child is on board and it seems somewhat tawdry, IMO. One of the greatest compliments I ever received from DHS is that we encouraged our children to be individuals. They dressed differently, had different friends, played different sports and so on. We absolutely refused to "play up" the issue of novelty. Yuck!! We just had 13 children. To this day I have to stop and think as to how many are adopted and how many are by birth. Ask me how many black children I have and I have to count. They are quite simply "our" children and we love each equally but uniquely.

As I said before, I think that people can start with good intentions and get pulled off track. I also am all too aware that there are some very bad apples out there. I may be "nice" but I'm naive. I've been around the proverbial block more times than I care to count. Trust me, I've dealt with the messes others have left in their wake. We have a number of children who came to us after 26 foster placements or multiple failed adoptions.

I do realize that some might "do it for the money" but once again, trust me, there are far easier and less messy and less heart wrenching ways to make money.

Would I do things differently had I known then what I know now> Heck yes. Who wouldn't. Have I made mistakes? Everyday. As Erma Bombeck used to say, give me another sheet of paper as this might take a while. But I'm always willing to give it another go and try another tactic. This is a crazy life and I doubt that many understand it or would seek it. But it's my life. I hope that 13 children (plus a few dear extras) have been touched in a positive way by my mothering.
 
I'm not sure how I feel about this update. This case has disturbed me and confused me from day one. I personally feel that there were many separate "agendas" and do NOT believe that it was handled appropriately. Things are so muddled now, I don't think the real truth could ever be uncovered, though. My heart goes out to those children who have testified over and over and over. I wish them the strength and peace to reclaim a scrap of their remaining childhood years. How I hope the parents who are raising them are supportive and are getting help.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110520...DeW5fdG9wX3N0b3JpZXMEc2xrAzZhY2N1c2VkaW5lYQ--

6 accused in East Texas sex ring await freedom

"Paperwork is now all that stands in the way of freedom for six adults accused of participating in what prosecutors say was a sordid small-town East Texas swinger's club where children as young as 5 were forced to perform sex.

The three men and three women pleaded guilty Thursday to charges of injury to a child in an unexpected end to a three-year criminal investigation into the so-called Mineola Swinger's Club. Smith County District Attorney Matt Bingham said the six will be released on time served as soon as the Texas Department of Criminal Justice completes their processing — possibly as early as Friday for some of them...."

more at link
 

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